WAR: Ahmed Omar Abu Ali Convicted of Plot to Kill President

Ahmed Omar Abu Ali, 24, has been convicted of plotting to kill President GW Bush. Ali is an American citizen who joined al Qaeda in order to carry out attacks against the US, including hijacking aircraft. His defense calls him a patsy and alleges that he was tortured into confessing while in Saudi custody.



This is just a small victory in the war on terrorism. Regardless of how any American citizen feels about the President, clearly, an assassination would be a very grave threat to national stability. I am comforted that intelligence led to this individual being brought to justice.

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WAR: Terror Suspect Confesses to Bush Plot
Charged with plotting to assassinate G W Bush

When tortured, the victim will admit to wearing Ping Thongs as the Underwear, just to STOP the Torture. Even Police Evidence does not COUNT in Court, if Beaten out of the Suspect.

Torture Evidence is Unacceptable

I'm glad that he was convicted. Now begins the appeals process.

He confessed shortly after his arrest. That doesn't leave a lot of time for whipping and torture, does it? And you have to admit - of course his lawyers are going to claim torture. What other avenue do they have when the man has already confessed?

I wonder why he is getting life instead of death? Is it the weight of the crime?

This is the main problem with "saudi interrogation".
anything that comes from it, is questionable as to truth..

and I gotta say it...
What do you expect from any saudi citizen? By law... they have to hate us... they have to pledge to Allah that they will kill us or convert us... that is the main scope of "wahhabi" sect islam... (the religion dictated by law in Saudi Arabia)

so for the Police to go around rounding up people who threaten us, is just nuts...
of course we like it, it makes us feel good to get these terrorist wannabees off the streets...
How we gonna feel when the gas shoots to $9 a gallon, and the entire country of SA is rioting in the streets...

this is why Bush and the SA king hold hands like two little lovers when they are shown on TV... it is a delicate peace at best...

my hope is that this is not lip service, but the start of massive roundups...
but expect some innocents, like possibly this guy, to get killed in the process...

it aint good, but it is better than a war, or terrorist attack.

This is terrible.

It's really a shame that people think just because they can pin something on a man, whether he's guilty or not is a victory.

He confessed shortly after his arrest. That doesn't leave a lot of time for whipping and torture, does it?

Do you know how long 'shortly after' is? 'shortly after' could be hours or days.

Originally posted by Souljah
When tortured, the victim will admit to wearing Ping Thongs as the Underwear, just to STOP the Torture. Even Police Evidence does not COUNT in Court, if Beaten out of the Suspect.

Torture Evidence is Unacceptable

Accordingly, Souljah, being that Abu Ali admitted to being Al-Qaeda, your assertion and his being Al-Qaeda, adds up to and calls this [linked below] into play:
This is al-Qa'eda Rule 18: 'You must claim you were tortured'





seekerof

Here is the al Qaeda training manual for those who would like to peruse it at their leisure.

www.usdoj.gov...

[edit on 2005/11/22 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by Seekerof
Accordingly, Souljah, being that Abu Ali admitted to being Al-Qaeda, your assertion and his being Al-Qaeda, adds up to and calls this [linked below] into play:
This is al-Qa'eda Rule 18: 'You must claim you were tortured'
seekerof

I never knew that. Interesting find too say the least.

So much for the assertions by their supporters that insist they have been tortured.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Here is the al Qaeda training manual for those who would like to puruse it at their leisure.

www.usdoj.gov...

^^^
Ha, thanks for posting that.

Now i see how "al-Qaeda" linked groups always have the 'manual' on their computers or person when they are busted - they get it from Justice Department!


As for another Arab "John Smith" being convicted of 'conspiracy of terrorism' in a country that uses torture and beheadings (which are totally out of vogue right now), yeah wow, great stuff. I'm sure that will do heaps in the 'War on Terror'. It's easily worth more as propaganda but none the less, it's a warm blanket isn't it?

If they ever do come out with the Mind Reading technology they talk about, there will probably be millions of arrests of people who wished Bush and Co were dead, which under future Patriot Acts "thoughts" will probably be enough to warrent 'conspiracy to act'.

In other words, take this with a grain of salt because it means nothing. If Bush gets knocked off, it will be done like all the other assissinations - it will be professionally planned by intelligence.

** Interesting to note that the "CIA's Worldwide Attack Matrix" information has been deleted from Wikipedia and the Woodward article on the Washington Post has also been deleted:
www.washingtonpost.com...

This is what was removed: www.cs.mcgill.ca...

Originally posted by TheShroudOfMemphis
Ha, thanks for posting that.

Now i see how "al-Qaeda" linked groups always have the 'manual' on their computers or person when they are busted - they get it from Justice Department!

To get updates they still need to go to the source.

Seriously, that manual has been out there since those guys got busted in London a couple of years ago.

As for another Arab "John Smith" being convicted of 'conspiracy of terrorism' in a country that uses torture and beheadings (which are totally out of vogue right now), yeah wow, great stuff. I'm sure that will do heaps in the 'War on Terror'. It's easily worth more as propaganda but none the less, it's a warm blanket isn't it?

The sentiment throughout this thread seems to be that these terrorists should be tried in the Vatican. Then if they are found guilty, their sentence could equal penance - something like "Recite the Lord's Prayer five times and gimme ten Hail Marys. Then get outta here, you knucklehead!"

He confessed shortly after his arrest. That doesn't leave a lot of time for whipping and torture, does it?

Is not the mere threat of torture a means
of torture into itself? A few words while
driving to the police station...catch my drift?

The Saudi's are notoriously brutal so I've been
told(by Another Saudi) so reputation of ruthlessness
can break some weaker people quite easily just with
a few words.....

Originally posted by jsobecky
The sentiment throughout this thread seems to be that these terrorists should be tried in the Vatican. Then if they are found guilty, their sentence could equal penance - something like "Recite the Lord's Prayer five times and gimme ten Hail Marys. Then get outta here, you knucklehead!"

No one's saying that criminals shouldn't get the punishment they deserve. The sentiment you're referring to comes out of the fact that president George W. Bush is the real terrorist, and that the people who died on 9/11 were actually killed by him. Al Qaeda is the Emmanuel Golstein of our age. The "war on terror" is meant to keep you scared, unquestioning, and willing to give up the freedoms that protect you in the name of "security". If we weren't at war and we didn't have an enemy lurking in the shadows to be afraid of we might start examining what's wrong with American society (there's a lot), but instead we're distracted by the drum-beat of war.

After all, war is peace.

Originally posted by sardion2000
The Saudi's are notoriously brutal so I've been
told(by Another Saudi) so reputation of ruthlessness
can break some weaker people quite easily just with
a few words.....

Yes they are brutal. There was a case where an al Qaeda suspect was being questioned by Americans, with no results. The Americans blindfolded him, put him on a plane, flew around for several hours (about as long as it would take to reach SA) brought him down and took the blindfold off in a staged area ( Wag the Dog ) that made it appear he was in SA.

The al Qaeda couldn't talk fast enough when he realized where he was ( where he thought he was ). He even gave up the personal cell phone number of a member of the Saudi Royal family, saying that the guy would vouch for him!

The story was carried right here on ATS, btw.

from ShakyaHeir The sentiment you're referring to comes out of the fact that president George W. Bush is the real terrorist, and that the people who died on 9/11 were actually killed by him. Al Qaeda is the Emmanuel Golstein of our age. The "war on terror" is meant to keep you scared, unquestioning, and willing to give up the freedoms that protect you in the name of "security". If we weren't at war and we didn't have an enemy lurking in the shadows to be afraid of we might start examining what's wrong with American society (there's a lot), but instead we're distracted by the drum-beat of war.

Unless you mean in some byzantine twisted-philosophical kind of way that Bush killed the people on 9/11, I must say farewell to that line of talk.

All this talk about the Al Qeada training manual conveniently published by the US government is moot if Ali wasn't a terrorist! If his confession was just a story.

This alleged manual looks more like Skull and Bones type paraphernalia with 'leader' or 'God' changed to Allah - for effect. And even if it is legit, just because there is something in it about claiming to be tortured doesn't mean that this guy was not tortured!

If it's true that the confession was beaten out of him, then he wasn't a member of the illusive Al Qaeda and probably never saw the manual titled, "So... you want to be an Al Qaeda terrorist?"

It's amazing how people want so badly to believe that the bad guy was caught that you'll grasp onto any line to believe! :shk: Open your minds. Consider that this man might be innocent, if only for a moment. Consider that he just might be a fall guy. Just some stranger, a student who was in the right place at the wrong time. Just let yourself think of that possibility. Then go back to this witch hunt of the 21st century.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
This alleged manual looks more like Skull and Bones type paraphernalia with 'leader' or 'God' changed to Allah - for effect.

Can you cite any example of Skull and Bones "paraphernalia" that even resembles this manual? The manual only presents a concrete form what is a well known modus operandi of al Qaeda, nothing more nothing less.


[edit on 2005/11/23 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
This alleged manual looks more like Skull and Bones type paraphernalia with 'leader' or 'God' changed to Allah - for effect.

Can you cite any example of Skull and Bones "paraphernalia" that even resembles this manual?

No. Not at all. I said "Skull and Bones TYPE", as in some sort of secret society, not limited to Skull and Bones, but also to include a boys' club house manual. My point is that anyone could have written it and said it was found in a terrorist's house! I have no indication that this is authentic. Do you?

The manual only presents a concrete form what is a well known modus operandi of al Qaeda, nothing more nothing less.

If it's well known information, then anyone could have written it.

I'm not out to discredit you, Grady, but I have no reason to believe what my government sets in front of me. Especially when the information serves its purpose so well. I take the DOJ and DOD links with the same weight as World Net Daily...

What reason do we have to believe these known liars?

A 'confession' extracted under torture is useless in any civilized nation.

If the US was squeaky clean as regards torture, i.e. if Pres. Bush was telling the truth that 'we do not torture', then this guy's confession might be sufficient to convict him.

But it is well-established that the US and our allies DO in fact use torture. Therefore, this guy's confession is meaningless, and he has been convicted unjustly (if convicted on the basis of his confession).

It does not matter if the 'Al-Qaida' manual talks about this or not. If the US was clean, and did not torture anybody, then those claims would be meaningless. However, since people in US custody are tortured, those claims have weight, without regard to whether A-Q trains in that or not.

If this guy is truly guilty, I say hang him. It doesn't matter what I or anyone thinks of Bush. But given the reality, there is sufficient Reasonable Doubt that his confession is anything other than an attempt on his part to stop his being tortured.

It does not matter if the 'Al-Qaida' manual talks about this or not. If the US was clean, and did not torture anybody, then those claims would be meaningless. However, since people in US custody are tortured, those claims have weight, without regard to whether A-Q trains in that or not.

"Your Honor, there have been instances in the past of torture inflicted by members of the same nationality as this prosecutor. I therefore move that the confession be thrown out as inadmissible.

"True, the perpetrators of torture were brought to justice and punished. And we will stipulate that. But it is unfair to make my client prove that torture was used to extract his confession. We must take his solemn word for it.

"The facts, though interesting, are irrelevant, Your Honor"

Edit typo

[edit on 23-11-2005 by jsobecky]

Originally posted by Open_Minded Skeptic
If the US was squeaky clean as regards torture, i.e. if Pres. Bush was telling the truth that 'we do not torture', then this guy's confession might be sufficient to convict him.

Very good point. While Bush stands at the podium and says "We do not torture" we all know very well that quite the opposite is true. If the Saudis didn't have such a strong reputation for torturing their prisoners, this guy might not be believable. But as it is, torture sounds like the most likely scenario.

Have y'all read the timeline of what happened in this case, or is it just easier to shout "Terrorist"! and be done with it? At the very least, it's suspicious. At worst, it's criminal.

Rights 101 Oregon begins campaign to free Ahmed

Originally posted by jsobecky

from ShakyaHeir The sentiment you're referring to comes out of the fact that president George W. Bush is the real terrorist, and that the people who died on 9/11 were actually killed by him. Al Qaeda is the Emmanuel Golstein of our age. The "war on terror" is meant to keep you scared, unquestioning, and willing to give up the freedoms that protect you in the name of "security". If we weren't at war and we didn't have an enemy lurking in the shadows to be afraid of we might start examining what's wrong with American society (there's a lot), but instead we're distracted by the drum-beat of war.

Unless you mean in some byzantine twisted-philosophical kind of way that Bush killed the people on 9/11, I must say farewell to that line of talk.

So are you doubting the possibility, or the evidence? as to the possibility... as shaming as it sounds... it has been done...
Pearl Harbor anyone?
as to the evidence... looks possible, but that is all for now.