Remembering 22 November 1963

Today is the 42nd anniversary of the Assassinataion of John F Kennedy.

I think it might be appropraite to take a few seconds to rememeber this event and ponder what it may mean to America.

If you believe it is a Conspiracy and that the US government lied to its citizens, do you believe this date is a turning point in the history of the US?
I believe the Assassination was a turning point in history. We ceased to blindly believe what our government told us. It set the stage for conspiracy buffs and conspiracy websites to exist.
Without 11-22-1963, the world would be a different place.

(pondering) hmmmmm....we can never be should what truly happened or who did it. Could be the CIA. Could be the mafia. Could be the Cuban exiles. Could be the Soviets. Could be Oswald. Could be white supremacists. Could be anybody. But yeah its very significant for it changed America and the world dramatically. But then events constantly changes in different ways. Conspiracies always happened. I wonder why no conspiracies in the previous assasinations in the 19th century.

Originally posted by deltaboy
I wonder why no conspiracies in the previous assasinations in the 19th century.

Actually, it was the 20th century. But there certainly were conspiracies related to other assassinations in the 20th century, it's just that Kennedy's was the most famous of them all. Just off the top of my head, there was a recent post about the conspiracy surrounding the assassination of the president of South Korea (I believe in the 1960's), the conspiracy surrounding Anwar Sadat's assassination and possible Mubarak involvement, Robert F. Kennedy's killing, the murder of Nicholas the Czar of Russia and his family, etc., etc. Not to mention John Lennon's murder, and even the attempted assassination of Ronald Reagan. So there certainly are conspiracies surrounding other assassinations, they are just lesser known and pale in comparison to JFK.

I think whenever a popular or powerful person is killed, we find it impossible to believe that just one petty man alone could have done it, because that person who was killed was so great and so big to us. We just can't believe that some unemployed loser took down such an incredible person. We think that there had to be more to it than just what we're told is true.

Now if you really did mean the 19th century, then there is a conspiracy involving Lincoln's assassination. Some say it wasn't just John Wilkes Booth and two co-conspirators, but rather a larger Confederate operation ordered by Jefferson Davis and funded by the Confederate Secret Service.

Actually, other than remembering the day, I was more interested in folks thoughts as to whether or not the Assassination was a pivotal point in the way Americans regarded their government.
We have plenty of threads discussing the events, this is more about Americans dealing with the knowledge that their goverment not only lied aboaut a conspiracy, but denies it to this day.
Do you think it led to the social upheaval of the mid to late 60s? It seems it was a snowball effect.

I'm reading "The Kennedy Contract" by John H. Davies right now.
Just started it only on chapter 4 but seems interesting so far.

If what it says is true about the mafia it makes sense. Kennedy was going to undo what took 25 yrs for the Mafia to build up. I'm not surprised they were angry at him.
And the mafia as we know killed ppl all the time.

Robert Kennedy recalled one of his early encounters with Hoffa in his book, The Enemy Within:

I noticed he was glaring at me across the counsel table with a deep, strange, penetrating expression of intense hatred. I suppose it must have dawned on him about that time that he was going to be the subject of a continuing probe-that we were not playing games...There were times when his face seemed completely transfixed with this stare of absolute evilness

Jimmy Hoffa:
en.wikipedia.org...

Even if they didn't carry out the final deed, I do believe they planned to.

I've heard lots of different theories tossed around as to why he was assassinated. Everything from him knowing about extra-terrestrial life on Earth, secret plots on how to kill Castro, CIA drug trafficking, and the list goes on.

The one theory that has always stood out to me was the one regarding the Federal Reserve. Five months before his death, Kennedy had signed an Executive Order than pretty much stripped the Federal Reserve of it's strangle-hold on U.S. currency. It is titled Executive Order #11110.

Executive Order 11110

AMENDMENT OF EXECUTIVE ORDER NO. 10289 AS AMENDED, RELATING TO THE PERFORMANCE OF CERTAIN FUNCTIONS AFFECTING THE DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY. By virtue of the authority vested in me by section 301 of title 3 of the United States Code, it is ordered as follows:

SECTION 1. Executive Order No. 10289 of September 19, 1951, as amended, is hereby further amended - (a) By adding at the end of paragraph 1 thereof the following subparagraph (j): "(j) The authority vested in the President by paragraph (b) of section 43 of the Act of May 12, 1933, as amended (31 U.S.C. 821 (b)), to issue silver certificates against any silver bullion, silver, or standard silver dollars in the Treasury not then held for redemption of any outstanding silver certificates, to prescribe the denominations of such silver certificates, and to coin standard silver dollars and subsidiary silver currency for their redemption," and (b) By revoking subparagraphs (b) and (c) of paragraph 2 thereof. SECTION 2. The amendment made by this Order shall not affect any act done, or any right accruing or accrued or any suit or proceeding had or commenced in any civil or criminal cause prior to the date of this Order but all such liabilities shall continue and may be enforced as if said amendments had not been made.

It would've given the currency distribution rights back to the U.S. Treasury and wiped the privately owned Federal Reserve off the map. Having a backing of silver instead of the invisible interest rates that the FR uses to keep our currency afloat today, it would've been almost impossible to get into the massive amounts of debt that we have in recent years.

Between the time that he signed this order and was killed, Kennedy had released around 3.5 to 4 billion in actual U.S. Treasury notes. Upon LBJ taking over, one his first unofficial acts was to pull these notes out of circulation.

All you have to do is look at the names of the people who were in charge of the Federal Reserve back then and decide whether those people listed were capable of such an atrocity.

By the way, there has been no subsequent amendment to that order by any legislative group or President. It is still valid.


[edit on 23-11-2005 by Obscure]

[edit on 23-11-2005 by Obscure]

Originally posted by Obscure
The one theory that has always stood out to me was the one regarding the Federal Reserve. Five months before his death, Kennedy had signed an Executive Order than pretty much stripped the Federal Reserve of it's strangle-hold on U.S. currency. It is titled Executive Order #11110.

Executive Order 11110

AMENDMENT OF EXECUTIVE ORDER NO. 10289 AS AMENDED, RELATING TO THE PERFORMANCE OF CERTAIN FUNCTIONS AFFECTING THE DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY. By virtue of the authority vested in me by section 301 of title 3 of the United States Code, it is ordered as follows:

SECTION 1. Executive Order No. 10289 of September 19, 1951, as amended, is hereby further amended - (a) By adding at the end of paragraph 1 thereof the following subparagraph (j): "(j) The authority vested in the President by paragraph (b) of section 43 of the Act of May 12, 1933, as amended (31 U.S.C. 821 (b)), to issue silver certificates against any silver bullion, silver, or standard silver dollars in the Treasury not then held for redemption of any outstanding silver certificates, to prescribe the denominations of such silver certificates, and to coin standard silver dollars and subsidiary silver currency for their redemption," and (b) By revoking subparagraphs (b) and (c) of paragraph 2 thereof. SECTION 2. The amendment made by this Order shall not affect any act done, or any right accruing or accrued or any suit or proceeding had or commenced in any civil or criminal cause prior to the date of this Order but all such liabilities shall continue and may be enforced as if said amendments had not been made.

This is what I believe as well. The Mafia are small time compared to the "real" thugs that actually run this country, and by extention the majority of the economic world. The names are the same ones that always seem to show up when discussing the power elite. Freed of normal human concerns by their enormous wealth, these people have their own goals, and their own game where the rest of us are just game pieces.

JFK was a loose cannon, and possibly wouldn't play their game, so he was removed before he could damage their hold over our nation's finances. The cover-up was performed by people within the US Government already bought and paid for by the same people who had him killed.

something died in the american people on november 22 1963. the realization of living under a dictatorship that would kill with impunity. if they could kill a president while the nation watched what else were they capable of?
it forced the american people to confront a scary alternative reality... a shadow government which they could neither control or know.
to a student of mass psychology, the decline of the american people after the killing was pretty obvious. within a year people largely switched from softer-toned naturally colored cotten to garish-colored artificial polyesters. popular music became louder, faster, more cacophonous. drugs appeared for the first time outside the bohemian subculture and the ghettos. extremes of every kind became fashionable...

Despite being 8 years of age at that time, I still remember a young Walter Cronkite staring into the camera to say, "President Kennedy has been shot." He was on the verge of losing his composure. He removed his glasses, cleared his throat, replaced his glasses after a few moments then continued to give the world news that would forver change it.

Kennedy helmed America steering her through the stormiest of seas. One is left to wonder how the face of America might look today if Kennedy had served his terms.

The enitre world was diminished by his death.

i stated earlier that something died in the american people on 22/11/63, idealism?, innocence?, the quest for moral excellence?.
whoever was behind the killing reaped much more than political gain or monetary gain... they gained the subservience of the american people. who is to say that this wasn't the prime objective all along?

"Aside from trifling witchcraft of country sorcerers, there are tricks of global hoodoo in which all alerted consciousnesses participate periodically... That is how strange forces are aroused and transported to the astral vault, to that dark dome which is composed above all of... the poisonous aggressiveness of the evil minds of most people... the formiddable tentacular oppression of a kind of civic magic which will soon appear undisguised." - Antonin Artaud

Sure, it was the death of innocence.
I think much of what happened was caused by the citizenry being adrift.
I like to say that day was the beginning of the end of our nation/society.

the rise of the serial-murderer. prior to the 1960's serial-murder existed, sporadically(in the 50's there were a few). from the 60's on through to the early 80's was the peak age of the serial-murderer.
many would consider the counter-culture as a positive force that emerged from that epoch, but where are those flower-children now? what did they grow up to be? drugs kept the majority from being capable of anything, let alone creating a utopian society.


"The Beatles have always had an intimate connection to the JFK assassination. He was shot the week before Thanksgiving 1963. By February 1964, the Beatles were number one in the national charts and the climactic appearance on Ed Sullivans TV show occurred. Even Brian Epstein (the manager of the Beatles) believed the Kennedy assassination helped their rise--the Beatles appeared to bind our wounds with their messages of joy and handholding... And the way was paved, replacing Camelot with Oz"- Dave Marsh 'Rolling Stone Magazine' (Feb. 24, 1977)

I think those of us who became part of the "flower power" generation were at an vulnerable age when JFK died. I'm sure we were disallusioned with governemnt and authority and it was related to the tragedy.

The assassination let the cat out the bag, in a manner of speaking. It changed the way the media viewed the Presidency and government.
Of course, the Vietnam war didn't help any.
Then, by Watergate, the hopefulness changed to apathy?

Nagell, what effect do you think the coverup on the Assassination had on the way the government treated the citizens of the US? How about foreign policy? Did it create an atmosphere ripe for the breeding of greed and "me" of the 80s?

good point. the 'shot heard round the world' definately opened up a pandora's box within the intelligence community. with a population suffering from not only apathy but abulia and a kind of amnesia (these three symptoms are a near-universal condition among us today and getting stronger) it set a precedent for the government, if the people could sit back and let their president die with no public outcry, why not bring a few other secrets out into the open, why not start using the population itself as guinea pigs? the '60's counter-culture was ripe for experimentation; lsd flooded the streets, bizarre cults with dubious connections sprang up. MK-ULTRA moved out of the v.a. and mental hospitals and into the streets. it wasn't their own fault the counter-culture failed. cointelpro killed the 60s.

living in a cut-throat society didn't give the people much choice other than to survive within the parameters set for them. they became mercenary. despite all the flaws of the people in the 50s, they at least still retained some semblance of belonging, of family, of community. living in the post 1963 atmosphere of fear, it became every man for himself, gradually building up to the 80's. we talk about the 80's as the decade of greed, but have things really changed now as opposed to 20 odd years ago?
i think celine summed it up best- 'What does the modern public want? It wants to go down on its knees before money and before crap!'

a look at u.s. intervention in other countries from the 60's onward is also illuminating. cambodia, laos, the upgrading of vietnam, ghana, indonesia, uruguay, chile, greece, bolivia, guatemala, costa rica, iraq(1972), australia, angola, zaire, jamaica, seychelles, grenada, morocco, suriname, libya, nicaragua, panama, bulgaria, iraq(1990), afghanistan, el salvador, haiti.


[edit on 24-11-2005 by Nagell]

I believe the Assassination was a turning point in history. We ceased to blindly believe what our government told us. It set the stage for conspiracy buffs and conspiracy websites to exist.
Without 11-22-1963, the world would be a different place.

I don't think the JFK assassination is was set the stage for conspiracy theories and conspiracy sites. Wouldn't the supposed UFO crash at Roswell in 1947 be more of a starting place for such matters?

The Kennedy assassination marked the end of democracy in this country. It hasn't been all that democratic since the day of Andrew Jackson. Kennedy was the first president in a long time that had his own ideas and wasn't afraid to use them. That got him killed. He had plenty of enemies. There hasn't been a president since that hasn't been a puppet and we probably will never see one again that isn't a puppet.

We have a one party goverrnment with two faces. This country is run by big money...period. You can't have most of the money in the hands of a few and democracy at the same time.

Originally posted by Nagell
living in the post 1963 atmosphere of fear, it became every man for himself, gradually building up to the 80's. we talk about the 80's as the decade of greed, but have things really changed now as opposed to 20 odd years ago?


a look at u.s. intervention in other countries from the 60's onward is also illuminating. cambodia, laos, the upgrading of vietnam, ghana, indonesia, uruguay, chile, greece, bolivia, guatemala, costa rica, iraq(1972), australia, angola, zaire, jamaica, seychelles, grenada, morocco, suriname, libya, nicaragua, panama, bulgaria, iraq(1990), afghanistan, el salvador, haiti.

We've degraded further since the 80s. Maybe unraveled is a better word.
In addition to the greed, we now have disrespect for human life and the posessions of others.
Many of the things the government is doing is becoming apparent to us. (i.e controlling the Markets)
The media and lobbyists have a great amount of control over US lives.

BTW, I had NO idea we had been involved in so many other countries

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
I don't think the JFK assassination is was set the stage for conspiracy theories and conspiracy sites. Wouldn't the supposed UFO crash at Roswell in 1947 be more of a starting place for such matters?

While I think it's true the Roswell/UFO thing exposed us to conspiracy theories and what the government was doing, it affected fewer people than the assassination.
So, yeah, UFOs were first, but 11-22-63 was nationwide...and worldwide.

the assassination birthed mae brussel, the person who did more for the world of 20th century conspiracy than any other.

but 11-22-63 was nationwide...and worldwide.

What about the assassination of Lincoln? or Garfield? or what about that flu pandemic of 1918 that was actually caused by the vaccine that was supposed to fight it off? That was certanly worldwide. What was it, 200 million dead wordwide?

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy

but 11-22-63 was nationwide...and worldwide.

What about the assassination of Lincoln? or Garfield? or what about that flu pandemic of 1918 that was actually caused by the vaccine that was supposed to fight it off? That was certanly worldwide. What was it, 200 million dead wordwide?

or for that matter the rise of the anti-freemason party, the zionist conspiracy? there have always been conspiracies lurking throughout history. these conspiracies were believed by a minority of the population. jfk was another case entirely, when 80%(or thereabouts) of the population doesn't believe the official government line about the assassination, it crosses over from conspiracy theory to an uneasy realization.
i think it was the birth of the unified field conspiracy theory.