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posted on Nov, 23 2005 @ 04:22 PM
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posted by rogue 1
Ahem, yes they did good for you. However they didn't supply Saddam with his chemical weapons capability


Really? You keep believing that buddy....




December 20, 1983. Donald Rumsfeld , then a civilian and now Defense Secretary, meets with Saddam Hussein to assure him of US friendship and materials support. [1] & [15]

July, 1984. CIA begins giving Iraq intelligence necessary to calibrate its mustard gas attacks on Iranian troops. [19]

January 14, 1984. State Department memo acknowledges United States shipment of "dual-use" export hardware and technology. Dual use items are civilian items such as heavy trucks, armored ambulances and communications gear as well as industrial technology that can have a military application. [2]

March, 1986. The United States with Great Britain block all Security Council resolutions condemning Iraq's use of chemical weapons, and on March 21 the US becomes the only country refusing to sign a Security Council statement condemning Iraq's use of these weapons. [10]

May, 1986. The US Department of Commerce licenses 70 biological exports to Iraq between May of 1985 and 1989, including at least 21 batches of lethal strains of anthrax. [3]

May, 1986. US Department of Commerce approves shipment of weapons grade botulin poison to Iraq. [7]




Source


And before you claim the source is wrong/biased/written by wombles, the little numbers behind each entry is a reference to the source for each claim. So you can check it out for yourself.



LMAO, well informed ok As I've said before on this thread I'm not american, you don't read do you. When you assume, you make an ass out of yourself


Apologies. I am well aware of what you wrote as I can read, but thanks for your concern
..



Ahem, your point being what ?


When you quote out of context you can make yourself appear really clever, can't you? My point was that the only reason that France and Germany are getting the blame now for supplying Chem and Bio stuff to Iraq is because the US is feeling bitter for them vetoing the war and being right in the end about the "WMD". Yes, the two countries had their part in supplying Iraq, but so did the US and the UK.

It is well documented, so continue to believe your little anti Franco-German lies if it makes you happy, but it wont make you any less ignorant.

Remember the reason we went to war? Probably not.



Or is this just another ramble, when you have nothing else to fall back on


Ooooh, sunshine, I have plenty to fall back on and if you really want to take me up on it then start a thread and we shall see who the ass is.

The point I was making was explained above, but when you misquote and take things out of context to make yourself appear superior i suppose it makes no difference, does it?




posted on Nov, 23 2005 @ 11:47 PM
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Originally posted by stumason


posted by rogue 1
Ahem, yes they did good for you. However they didn't supply Saddam with his chemical weapons capability


Really? You keep believing that buddy....




December 20, 1983. Donald Rumsfeld , then a civilian and now Defense Secretary, meets with Saddam Hussein to assure him of US friendship and materials support. [1] & [15]

July, 1984. CIA begins giving Iraq intelligence necessary to calibrate its mustard gas attacks on Iranian troops. [19]

January 14, 1984. State Department memo acknowledges United States shipment of "dual-use" export hardware and technology. Dual use items are civilian items such as heavy trucks, armored ambulances and communications gear as well as industrial technology that can have a military application. [2]

March, 1986. The United States with Great Britain block all Security Council resolutions condemning Iraq's use of chemical weapons, and on March 21 the US becomes the only country refusing to sign a Security Council statement condemning Iraq's use of these weapons. [10]

May, 1986. The US Department of Commerce licenses 70 biological exports to Iraq between May of 1985 and 1989, including at least 21 batches of lethal strains of anthrax. [3]

May, 1986. US Department of Commerce approves shipment of weapons grade botulin poison to Iraq. [7]




Source


Hmmm and this proves what ? you haven't proven anything have you

The US didn't supply anything which can be directly relate to the Iraqi CW program. The Germans did.

  • The reason the BND is well-informed of Iraqi WMD programs - nuclear, biological and chemical - is straightforward: since the early 1980s, it has monitored German exports of dual-use nuclear technologies, precursor chemicals for poison-gas weapons, and "pharmaceutical" products and equipment for biological weapons manufacture to the Middle East. Indeed, there are strong suspicions that it was a silent partner in a Hamburg front company, Water Engineering Trading or WET, which covered for and facilitated such exports. Chief UN weapons inspector Hans Blix said in his January 27 report that tons of Iraqi chemical and biological agents and precursors were unaccounted for. Over the years, well over half of the precursor materials and a majority of the tools and know-how for their conversion into weapons were sold to Iraq by German firms - both prior to and after the 1991 Gulf War. The BND has the details.

    www.atimes.com...


  • On 30 March, the US government announced the imposition of 'foreign policy controls' on the export to the Gulf-War belligerents of five chemicals that could be used in the production of mustard and nerve gases. US officials told the press that this had been done in response to an unexpected volume of recent orders from Iraq for those chemicals. They also said that Japan, FR Germany and other unspecified European countries had been exporting the chemicals to Iraq.

    projects.sipri.se...

  • International support, especially by the two parts of Germany, was crucial in activating the Iraqi chemical program.

    In early 1979, Iraq built the first factory to produce insecticides with the help of Italian engineers. The factory was built in the region of Akashat at a cost of $50 million. A security system was also built to protect the factory that cost another $60 million. The building of this factory experienced many problems, such as espionage attempts by the Mosad, the Israeli intelligence service. The western companies that dealt with the defunct regime -- for instance Australian and Dutch firms -- exported a lot of materials related to this field of production. For instance, the Dutch firm KBS sold Iraq large quantities of Thiodilyco (name as transliterated), a material that is essential in the production of mustard gas, at a cost of 1.5 million Marks. Multinational Italian firms also supplied Iraq with 60 tons of Oxycklorure (name as transliterated), a phosphoric material that is also used in chemical industries that can be put to dual-use. As for the French companies, they exported to Iraq large quantities of a gas (not further identified) that can be used in warfare. This gas was exported across the borders from Italy and Turkey. This transaction was concluded through the mediation of the German Company Karl Kolb. A confidential report issued on 21 August 1990 by Helmut Hossman (name as transliterated), the Economy Minister of then West Germany, confirmed that the German companies had the lion's share in these transactions. The report said that since 1983, West German companies have exported to Iraq huge quantities of raw materials, equipment, and small industrial factories to produce poison gases. The report also said that these companies participated directly in building the Sa'd Project, the Iraqi chemical project, and the construction of the military complex in Al-Taji.

    www.fas.org...

  • Expurgated portions of Iraq's December 7 report to the UN Security Council show that German firms made up the bulk of suppliers for Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programs. What's galling is that German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder and his minions have long known the facts, German intelligence services know them and have loads of information on what Saddam Hussein is hiding, and Schroeder nonetheless plays holier than thou to an easily manipulated, pacifist-inclined domestic audience.

    www.freerepublic.com...



So who built Saddams CW facilities
Just a few facts for you, there are plenty more.








And before you claim the source is wrong/biased/written by wombles, the little numbers behind each entry is a reference to the source for each claim. So you can check it out for yourself.


I don't have too
Your source prooves nothing. The US didn't supply the chemicals and they didn't build the plants
How you can acuse them of supplying Saddams CW ability I don't know.




Ahem, your point being what ?


When you quote out of context you can make yourself appear really clever, can't you? My point was that the only reason that France and Germany are getting the blame now for supplying Chem and Bio stuff to Iraq is because the US is feeling bitter for them vetoing the war and being right in the end about the "WMD".


Well you were talking about something completely different
than our discussion. I didn't quote anything out of context either

It wasn't the US supplying the precursor agents and building the facilities now was it

It is a well established fact that the Europeans ( chief among them being Germany ) supplied the chemicals and the facilities.


It is well documented, so continue to believe your little anti Franco-German lies if it makes you happy, but it wont make you any less ignorant.


Umm yes it is, as I have shown





Ooooh, sunshine, I have plenty to fall back on and if you really want to take me up on it then start a thread and we shall see who the ass is.


I've already proven you wrong



The point I was making was explained above, but when you misquote and take things out of context to make yourself appear superior i suppose it makes no difference, does it?


Sorry bud, I didn't miss quote anything, just what you said
You don't have much to fall back on do you


[edit on 23-11-2005 by rogue1]



posted on Nov, 24 2005 @ 04:37 PM
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Seeing as you so insistent on arguing the toss, lets go.




The US didn't supply anything which can be directly relate to the Iraqi CW program.


Erm...Yes they did and not just CW, but they had a significant hand in Nuclear and Bio weapons too:



The electron beam welder. The inspectors found a giant electron beam welder at an Iraqi nuclear weapon plant. It was an essential part of Saddam's production line for making centrifuges, which Saddam was counting on to make his first critical mass of nuclear weapon material. The welder even had a special fixture for holding the centrifuges in place. The inspectors included it on a list of "the more important equipment" that they found.




The mass spectrometers. The UN found two U.S.-licensed mass spectrometers in the nuclear weapon program. These instruments are used to measure the quality of uranium as it is being enriched to nuclear weapon grade. The Commerce Department licensed one in December 1988 to the Ministry of Heavy Industries, a front company that bought equipment for the Iraqi nuclear weapon development sites, and another to Sa'ad 16 in 1985




The vacuum pump oil. The UN also found vacuum pump oil made by Dupont in the nuclear program. Vacuum pumps move uranium gas through the enrichment process, while the uranium is raised to nuclear weapon grade. The gas is corrosive, so special pumps are needed to move it. The oil is a restricted item because it is used to lubricate these special pumps. The Commerce Department licensed the pump oil in February 1989.




The detonation conference. In 1989, the Pentagon and the Department of Energy invited three Iraqis to attend a "detonation conference" in Portland, Oregon in August. Financed by American taxpayers, the meeting brought together experts from around the world to explain to the Iraqis how to produce shock waves in any desired configuration. There were even lectures on "H.M.X.," the high explosive of choice for nuclear detonation, and on flyer plates, used to help produce the precise shock waves needed to ignite A-bombs. The UN found both H.M.X. and flyer plates at Iraq's main nuclear weapon development site. The three Iraqis who attended the conference came from the laboratory that provided parts for Iraq's first high explosive nuclear detonator.




Chemical and missile items. In February 1992 the UN sent the State Department a list of American equipment that had been found in Iraq's chemical and missile programs. The list reveals a number of interesting things.

At the al-Muthanna State Establishment at Samarra, the largest Iraqi site for producing chemical weapons, the U.N. inspectors found American equipment during UNSCOM 17, the fifth chemical weapon inspection. They found air compressors, pressure and temperature regulators, power supply components, air filters for ensuring a clean and dry working environment, and buffer vessels, all made by a company in North Carolina. They also reported finding a filling system for projectiles--to fill the projectiles with chemical agents--made by a company in Connecticut and process control equipment made by a large American electronics manufacturer.

In addition, they reported finding a generator, some motors, and an ion exchange machine at al-Fallujah, another chemical weapon site. The UN said that all of these items were made by American companies. The UN also said in its letter that it had not determined how the equipment had found its way to Iraq, so it was possible that it had got there without the companies' knowledge.



Here is the source to prevent me quoting everything on it

Here you can find a list of many US companies and Governemnt Agencies that played a role in armind and supporting Iraq during the War with Iran.

List



I don't have too Your source prooves nothing. The US didn't supply the chemicals and they didn't build the plants How you can acuse them of supplying Saddams CW ability I don't know.


Well I was hoping you might use you brain (long shot I know, but had to try) and do some research into US involvement, instead of flat out ignoring it and harping on about Germany. Yes German was involved, as was France, Italy, the USSR, the UK and very possibly, there might have been secret deals with the Wombles....



It wasn't the US supplying the precursor agents and building the facilities now was it


Yes, it was. Now, please note I am not saying it was the US alone, I am just refuting your claims that they didn't do anything. That is BS.



I've already proven you wrong


No, you haven't. What you have done is prove what we already know. What you haven't succeeded in doing is proving that the US didn't play it's role in supporting Iraq with its WMD programme.


You don't have much to fall back on do you


Well, actually, yes I do.



posted on Nov, 24 2005 @ 04:41 PM
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Anyway, we are veering wildly off topic, so if you want to discuss this, then start a thread, as I suggested.

Apologies to NR for playing my part in deviating the thread mand ruining a very good joke.

Sorry dude


NR

posted on Nov, 24 2005 @ 09:51 PM
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Originally posted by stumason
Anyway, we are veering wildly off topic, so if you want to discuss this, then start a thread, as I suggested.

Apologies to NR for playing my part in deviating the thread mand ruining a very good joke.

Sorry dude


No problem dude, I enjoyed reading all of your comments and discussion about terrorism to war with Iran dealing with chemical/biological weapons. Stumason I don't think I could have said it better myself and you have my vote when i have a chance to do so again. I'll mabey come up with another in the future....

[edit on 24-11-2005 by NR]



posted on Nov, 25 2005 @ 04:04 AM
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You think its unfair people not speaking respectfully of america? I can show you hundreds of posts here calling for ME countries to be " turned into a glass bowl" as half you retards who are to stupid to come up with something original say.


I am an American and don't think that ME countries should be turned into a glass bowl (a glass parking lot is alot more useful than a big glass bowl) haha.
j/k Anyways wishing death upon America and telling us about it is alot different than wishing death upon America and keeping it to yourselves. Slander is slander is slander no matter how you look at it.

[edit on 09/18/2005 by stanpord]


NR

posted on Nov, 25 2005 @ 04:18 AM
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Hidden-You don't even try to hide your hatred of American's or Jewish people.
If you are so upset at people calling for your country to be turned into a glass bowel-you might ask yourself an honest question-why do they threaten to do that?

Based on what you said, I conclude you MAY live in Iran.

Now, why would people threaten to turn your country into a glass bowel?

Hmm, could it be your country has offered to give nuclear tech to any muslium country, no matter what they intend to do with it?
Could it be that YOUR country is trying to get/build nuclear weapons-and please don't tell me they are not-really!
Could it be that YOUR president has said he will wipe another country off the map-ie killing all men, women and children.
Could it be that people are sure that if your country gets nuclear weapons-they will use them.

Sorry 4 getting off topic-but I felt it was necessary.

Again,NR
I think by making lite of this topic, you allow all of us-ok- most of us, to be a little calmer in our discussions/debates of such heated topics.
We are all a passionate bunch here and a little humor can help us all.




Mrmonsoon I have no hatred towards Israel or America!!! do you even know what i'm like in real life? have you presonnaly met me than just talk to me through ATS? Anybody would be upset of people threatening their country but Ahmadinejad has no power and can't start any wars so guess who does? only the SUPREME-COUNCIL. Which people/or country threatened to turn iran into a glass bowl? that doesn't make sense but al is well i enjoy discussion with you.



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