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Five Iraqis shot at US checkpoint

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posted on Nov, 21 2005 @ 08:44 AM
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Five Iraqis shot at US checkpoint

Five members of an Iraqi family were killed when US forces opened fire on their vehicle outside a military base near the city of Baquba, police say.

Two men and three children were killed and two women and a child were wounded, Iraqi police said.

The family was travelling to a funeral at the time, witnesses said.

Full Story at BBC


Questions about the news article:

1-Who is responsible?

2-Who to probe?

3-How to compensate?

4-How to avoid such occurances in future?

All members invited to take on the subject.
Purposeful discussion, no blames/flames please




posted on Nov, 21 2005 @ 08:50 AM
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Originally posted by chaudri
1-Who is responsible?

The driver of the vehicle because he didn't stop at an armed
military check point as he was required to do. ALL the Iraqis
know to do this. The driver is responsible.


2-Who to probe?

Probe? Nothing here to probe.


3-How to compensate?

Compensate? There is nothing to compensate.
You don't pay people for ignoring a military
check point in a hostile fire zone.


4-How to avoid such occurances in future?

That's up to the Iraqis who think they don't have to follow
the law. They have been told what to do. If they don't
follow it ... it's their own fault. If you want to avoid this
in the future, then EVERY Iraqi will have to obey military
check points and show some common sense.



posted on Nov, 21 2005 @ 09:03 AM
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"The soldiers started shooting at us from all over," he told reporters. "I slowed down and pulled off the road, but they continued firing.

"I saw my family killed, one after the other, and then the car caught fire. I dragged their bodies out."


I am sure that there are two sides to this Story - just like every other Incident.

hrw.org...



posted on Nov, 21 2005 @ 09:08 AM
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"shrugs" many of the soldiers arent trained for checkpoint duties. and seeing suicide car bombers using civilian cars it makes the soldiers a little itchy for their guns when cars get close to them. dont blame them.



posted on Nov, 21 2005 @ 09:24 AM
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Originally posted by chaudri
Five Iraqis shot at US checkpoint
1-Who is responsible?

The iraqi media, the Iraqi public information system and the driver of the vehicle.


2-Who to probe?

The Iraqi education system, the iraqi public information system and the driver of the vehicle.


3-How to compensate?

Spend more on informing Iraqis about restrictions, about travel advisories and about the need to follow instructions when they are given by an authority. Also the insurgent groups must be asked to pay the driver for the death of his family, for the waste of ammunition by the check point forces and also the damage of the car.
The former iraqi Govt can also pay the driver for neglecting to teach him the value of listening to instructions, to read signs and also the death of his family which resulted thereof.



posted on Nov, 21 2005 @ 01:36 PM
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I'm not surprised at these comments anymore. I guess it is good to kill people, and especially children. In fact, I don't know why I ever disagreed with you people who support US troops killing Iraqis.

First that Italian reporter, now this family. Good job men, you make me feel great knowing that you try to exterminate people at checkpoints.



posted on Nov, 21 2005 @ 01:48 PM
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1-Who is responsible?

Difficult question. Mainly the driver for not listening to the blockader. But the military in general can bear some fo the responsibility for this sort of thing, they set up the blocks, they 'created' the conditions, to degree.

2-Who to probe?

? For what purpose? What is in dispute? Debreif the soldiers invovled and any other witnesses. Might be intersting to interview the other uninvolved family members, to find out why this guy wouldn't do whatever they told him to.

3-How to compensate?

The surviving family members would have to be given a good monetary compensation from the US and also be tended to by the Iraqi Government.

4-How to avoid such occurances in future?

There must be some way to make it clear to a driver that they must stop, the guy is saying that there was no time to react. He says they started shooting, and he started to slow down and pull over. This is a no no. They signal to stop, and he must screech to a halt.
A few things are needed.
Firstly, and this I gather from watching that 'over there' documentary tv show, these GIs don't even begin to speak english, and, honestly, seem to think that by talking loudly that their message will be understood. They need some sort of training. heck, it'd probably be worthwhile having everyone in the military enroll in arabic classes, considering the global hotspots.
Secondly, they need to have something more than the small sign shown in the photo to indicate that they need to stop, something screamingly obvious, a red octagon means stop in america, but not everywhere. In turkey, if you want to say 'yes' you nod your head in (western) 'no'. This kind of confusion can obviously be dangerous.

When I see schoolkids crossing the street and they want traffic stopped, there isn't just some guy standing there saying 'hey stop, yeah turn around' in some language I can't understand. There more than that. In some places there's a person with a big sign on a staff that says STOP!, lollipop ladies they are called in england.

Consider the confusion that can be witnessed when a cop has to redirect traffic because of an accident, and how many people try to drive through, imagine that confusion on a hostil battlefield with secret operatives.

These troopers in iraq don't even have white gloves, they have camo on.


Also, the iraqis need to be better educated as to what exactly to do at ablock, they need to know that its not temporary, and that their only option is to turn around and go somewhere else.



posted on Nov, 21 2005 @ 01:52 PM
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notice the immpossible to miss day glo clothing, and the giant (even authoratative) staff with the huge glowing sign above her head saying to stop.

Compared to this


Its in everyone's interest to change this, the soldiers will be able to say with certainty that anyone that isn't stopping is an idiot or a terrorist.

Obviously they can't be dressed in preciselely the same way, but, yeesh, at least have white traffic gloves on instead of camo ones! AT LEAST!



posted on Nov, 21 2005 @ 02:49 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
The surviving family members would have to be given a good monetary compensation from the US and also be tended to by the Iraqi Government.


Why? It was their own fault that they ran a check point.
There were signs up all over the place. It isn't like this is
something new. This has been going on for years over there.
You don't pay someone for not following the rules.



posted on Nov, 21 2005 @ 02:52 PM
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Originally posted by truthseeka
you try to exterminate people at checkpoints.

ugh.
The DRIVER exterminated the people in the car.
When the signs all say deadly force will be used
and to STOP... then they should stop. It's the
driver's fault. He is the one who caused the deaths.

Personal responsibility.



posted on Nov, 21 2005 @ 03:11 PM
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I agree, personal accountablity is bankrupt in todays society, no one has the guts to stand up and say my bad anymore. Sorry to get off topic, but anyways, if he failed to slow up soon enough then you really cant blame the soldiers who fired. This isnt about exterminating people, its about saving lives, and when people dont follow instructions in volitile situations like this then people die. The rules are there to save lives, not take them. Just like our traffic laws in the states, there to save lives. Same principle really.
As for who to probe, the driver and the soldiers of course, as well as anyone else who may have been around. It should be investigated fully of course, I'm not denying that.
For compensation, number one, reparations to the family, though money is no substitute for lost loved ones. And of course teach him to stop at check points in the proper manor. Which would also prevent future incident.



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