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Evolution versus God

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posted on Nov, 23 2005 @ 04:24 PM
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Its not based on Ushers, but may as well be. In the time before internet (this may be hard for some of you to imagine) I decided that I wanted to know. So I did the same thing, not knowing it was done before. I arrived in the same ballpark.

As for your second question, yes, I can see why you would be less then eager to believe.....IF ....you are a nonbeliever.

That said

IF you are a believer in Jesus Christ being the son of God, who came to earth and died for our sins, and rose again on the 3rd day and will return again very soon... then Genesis is a small matter.

Look at the above paragraph again. Genesis is easy after all of that.
Not only that but....

IF Genesis did not happen just like God dictated it to Moses, then the above paragraph isnt even needed. We dont need a savior , we dont need forgivness, we dont need the whole big lie.

Genesis shows us where death came from and when and why and how
It shows us where sin came from, and when and why and how

Without Genesis, there is not a need for Jesus

Forget the days and the mornings and evenings...that is trivial compared to this.
If death came before Adam and Eve sinned, then God and the whole bible is a lie.

NOw, since I believe God, then I can believe he can raise people from the dead...AND make the world in six days. Which one is harder?




posted on Nov, 23 2005 @ 05:50 PM
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Like I said, there's no point in trying to convince me otherwise, I know the verses you are likely to refer to, as far as I'm concerned you are taking literally what is not meant to be taken literally.

If the world is 6000 years old, then why doesn't God explicitly say this in the bible?

Perhaps because he doesn't want us to know the exact age of the earth, if he did I'm sure he would have told us explicitly rather than letting us take verses out of proper context, adding things that cannot be added, since the word in Hebrew for father is often used as forefather.

Let it go.



posted on Nov, 23 2005 @ 08:13 PM
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Originally posted by Simon_the_byron
Like I said, there's no point in trying to convince me otherwise,


Im not

I know the verses you are likely to refer to,

Looks like you dont. Ive already referred to all the verses needed and you didnt even see it so I guess its safe to say that you dont know them


as far as I'm concerned you are taking literally what is not meant to be taken literally.
.


So Jesus didnt die? Didnt raise from the dead? Didnt pay for our sins?

If you dont think those were meant literally, then in what way are you a christian?



posted on Nov, 25 2005 @ 06:36 AM
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Originally posted by jake1997
So Jesus didnt die? Didnt raise from the dead? Didnt pay for our sins?

If you dont think those were meant literally, then in what way are you a christian?


If you twist my words out of context, how much more are you going to twist the Word of God?

For the record - I believe in all of those things, but that has nothing to do with the age of the earth.

[edit on 25-11-2005 by Simon_the_byron]



posted on Nov, 25 2005 @ 09:48 AM
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For the record:

There were several Christian sects that did not believe that Jesus died on the cross, rose from the dead, or that any of that was supposed to save us all from our sins.

The fact that the Christian sects that had the most money and could hire an army of cold-blooded mercenaries to kill off any that did not agree with them does not provide ample evidence that they were wrong - merely that they were not able to win a war.



posted on Nov, 25 2005 @ 10:12 AM
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Originally posted by Al Davison
The fact that the Christian sects that had the most money and could hire an army of cold-blooded mercenaries to kill off any that did not agree with them does not provide ample evidence that they were wrong - merely that they were not able to win a war.


Young earthers are almost universally ignorant of the history of Christianity, as their only source of information is the Bible (or anything that supports it).

Most probably don't even realize that a good number of Paul's letters are actually attempts to persuade competing sects to his perspective. They just read the words and declare them inerrant, but never ask themselves why Paul was writing these letters in the first place.

They have a narrow minded linear perspective of Christianity and will simply refuse to recognize that present day Christianity is what it is because the competing sects were murdered off, even though the church itself recorded this atrocity.



posted on Nov, 25 2005 @ 03:32 PM
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Perhaps if you knew what it means to be christian?
nevermind. You should have at least known that much before jumping in. You have been here for quite some time now.

Simon
I want to go one step at a time here. That is why I listed those things in that manner.

Now, if you believe Christ died for sin, and then was raised up on the 3rd day, then explain it.

By that I mean, why did we need Christ?
The bible says that Sin entered the world through Adam, and that death through sin.
The bible goes on to say that Jesus paid the price for my sin and yours, even 'original sin' , on the cross. Jesus also defeated death when He rose from the dead. That is our hope that we too will one day be raised with Him.

Now the very heart of the matter begins in Genesis.
The bible says there was no death before sin entered the world
This is the part of the bible you have been taught to deny.

Here is something else
Adam was told that "In the day you eat thereof, you shall surely die"?
Now we have to decide
1.) Either Adam died on the day he ate thereof
2.) Or God is a liar

Which do you prefer?

Peter holds the answer and you already gave it.
Adam died on the first day of the earths history...(one day is like a thousand years and a thousand years is a day)
Look at 2 Peter 3 and you can see he is giving a history lesson.

Even Jesus mentions Abel as the first of the prophets who were slain.
No one else before Adam is ever referred to
No death before Adam
No sin before adam
No reason for Jesus if all of that is not true.



posted on Nov, 25 2005 @ 05:54 PM
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I'm not saying there were people before Adam. I'm saying that the world is not 6000 years old. Let's look at this logically - according to your reasoning.

A thousand years is a day to God - this is literal.

Man was created on the 6th day. 5001 years (minimum) have passed let's say. Ok, we've got that far, but Christ died on the cross less than 2000 years ago. Already, the earth must be approximately 8000 years old, but then you add all the people that lived before Jesus and add in the fact that there may be parts missing from the family tree and then you're theory on the age of the earth is defeated even using your own logic.

Death did not come in the first day of the earth's history, since the earth was created in 7 days and we were created on the 6th. Or is God lying?

Perhaps it is you that has misunderstood the context of 2 Peter 3:8.

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day/εν δε τουτο μη λανθανετω υμας αγαπητοι οτι μια ημερα παρα κυριω ως χιλια ετη και χιλια ετη ως ημερα μια


This you interpret as saying 1000 years is one day to God, but it also says a thousand years is as one day. How can both be literally true? Do not tell me that I have misunderstood the context since it is plain for all to see and is even more blatantly obvious in the Greek.

It refers to God's timelessness - tell me, how could God be outside of time and still be subject to it? God does not age.

You ought to abandon this illogical belief based on a false premise. It does not diminish your faith to say that the world is older than 6000 years, since there is nowhere in the bible in which such a claim is made.



posted on Nov, 25 2005 @ 07:52 PM
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Originally posted by jake1997
Perhaps if you knew what it means to be christian?
nevermind. You should have at least known that much before jumping in. You have been here for quite some time now.


I know what you think it means...that does not mean that I accept that you are correct and I absolutely reject the notion that you are granted any powers to decide for the whole world. Don't start flinging Paulinistic scriptures at me - those, too, are just one side of the story. The fact that you do not know the history of your own relgion that you profess to hold so dear is not an indictment on me, sir!

I would be honored to be returned to your Ignore List.

[edit on 25-11-2005 by Al Davison]



posted on Nov, 26 2005 @ 07:14 AM
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Originally posted by Simon_the_byron
I'm not saying there were people before Adam. I'm saying that the world is not 6000 years old. Let's look at this logically - according to your reasoning.


A thousand years is a day to God - this is literal.

Man was created on the 6th day.


Why start there? I was talking about Peter. Peter gave a history lesson and it shows why he said what he did.
Not only did he define the 'day' he was talking about, he gave its age.
Now you purposely go and try to apply that to Genesis 1.

Well, In genesis 1 we also have days. Those days are defined as evening and morning. One rotation of the earth.
Why?
God tells us why.
Its our example
Exodus 20:11
So those six creation days are not only defined in Genesis, but in exodus as well.
Adams age also shows us. Like I showed above, adam died on the first day as defined by peter






Death did not come in the first day of the earth's history, since the earth was created in 7 days and we were created on the 6th. Or is God lying?

I have no idea what your talking about here. Who said death came on the first day?

The rest of your post was based on the faulty info at the top where you tried to apply Peters words to the creation week, which is clearly defined in Genesis and confirmed in Exodus, and the 10 commandments.



posted on Nov, 26 2005 @ 09:53 AM
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Originally posted by jake1997
I have no idea what your talking about here. Who said death came on the first day?



Originally posted by jake1997Adam died on the first day of the earths history...


I believe it was you.

You may believe that the earth was created in a week, but I do not.

Genesis 2:4
These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens

This verse clearly states that the earth and the heavens were created in a day. A day or a week? If you interpret Genesis 1 + 2 literally you have a contradiction.

If you take a day to mean an age, or a period of creation - you do not have this problem.

I take day to mean a period of creation, the first day is when God separated night from day, who says this took 24 hours though?

I don't see it.



posted on Dec, 4 2005 @ 03:48 PM
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you're taking the bible WAY to literally. books, all books, have some sort of deeper meaning within them besides the printed text. Moby Dick isn't just about a guy trying to kill a whale, 2001 a space oddyssey isn't just about a crazy computer, and the bible isn't a book to be taken literally.



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