Mayan Calender Research

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posted on Nov, 20 2005 @ 06:07 PM
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One of the most talked about dates in our future seems to be centered around one date. December 21, 2012. Just about every prediction calling for end times uses this date in accordance to the Maya Calender ending on this day. Why did it end? What is the Maya Calender? I've read several posts here about the Mayan Calendar, but not one post that specifically talks about the Calendar, so I did some reasearch on it..

In this thread, I'm going to try and explain just what the Maya Calender is, how it was developed, and why it ended. And from here, the topic is open for whatever discussion you desire.

The Maya Calendar was the center of Maya life and their greatest cultural achievement. The Maya Calendar's ancestral knowledge guided the Maya's existence from the moment of their birth and there was little that escaped its influence.

The Maya used several calendars simultaneously. One of them called the "long count", is a continuous record of days from a zero date that correlates to Aug. 13, 3114 BC, and is more precise than the Julian calendar revised in Europe in 1582. The Maya were great astronomers and kept track of the solar and lunar years, eclipses and the cycles of visible planets. To carry out their calendric and astronomical calculations they developed a sophisticated mathematical system (www.mayacalendar.com...) where units are written with dots and bars are used to represent five units. They discovered and used the zero as well as a vigesimal positioning system, similar to the decimal positioning system we use today.

So what was the Maya Calender?

In short, it was a catalog that registers all the days of a year, distributed in weeks and months, with astronomical data, such as time of sunrise and sunset, the moon phases, or with religious information such as patron saints and festivities. It also was a time division system, all of the world's cultures have their calendars initially lunar and afterwards lunar-solar. The Chaldeans and Babylonians passed their calendric knowledge to the Egyptians, these in turn to the Greeks and these finally to the Romans who adopted it for their common use.

From the beginning of Maya civilization there has been a very close link between astrology and the development of the calendar. The importance of this connection is evident considering the need to determine the times for the most basic functions of early societies such as agriculture and the celebration of religious events. As the Maya population grew, the need for more food became indispensable and the attempts to obtain a more abundant crop started, this was done mainly by selecting different corn varieties and by carefully coordinating the dates of cultivation with the rain cycle.

The time count used for corn cultivation must have been based on the initial Maya numeration which consisted of the number of fingers on both hands and feet or the number 20, a kal. The observation that 13 kal (260 days) were needed from the choosing of the location for the milpa until the burning of the felled forest patch and equal number of kal elapsed from the planting, through the growth and harvest until the corn was stored, gave origin to the first Maya calendar.

The Tzolkin, Mayan name derived from the word tzol which means "to put in order", and kin that means "day", was a ceremony in which the priests assigned the order of the days to realize the milpa's activities and the ceremonies related to its different phases. One Tzolkin cycle was related to the preparation of the land and a second Tzolkin cycle was directly related to the growing and harvesting of the corn.

Some time afterwards the Maya started to notice the time it took the Sun to complete it's yearly cycle and the length of it was established in 28 thirteen-day periods which added up to 364 days, a length that did not adjust exactly to the cycle. We suppose that the astronomers and the mathematicians had different opinions and while the former held up that the exact measure of the cycle should be used the latter insisted in having a time period as close as possible to the real one that would make calculations simple, that is, a multiple of 20. Finally they agreed to create a 360 day year for calendric calculations they called Tun, it was divided in 18 months of 20 days, called the Uinal, each with a distinct name and numbers from 0 to 19 were also given to their component days. Then a period of five days called uayeb was added to the Tun year and this gave birth to the Haab calendar. In this calendar the uayeb were placed just before the beginning of the astronomical year. The Tzolkin and the Haab were then coordinated and this gave place to the calendar round."

The Maya Calendar we find in the codices that survived the Spanish conquest and the burning of documents by Bishop Diego de Landa, at Mani, Yucatán, México is used today to corroborate the calculations written in those codices and to calculate the dates of the Maya stelae and lintels. This calendar is called the initial series calendar or the long count calendar and it includes the following three individual calendars which are perfectly coordinated.

a).- An astronomical calendar which initiates on the date the Sun passes perpendicularly through the zenith, a day between the 24 - 26 of July each year. Its calculated to be 365.2420 days long and was used to fix the position of the solstices, the equinoxes, the synodic revolutions of the planets in our solar system, the eclipse nodes and other celestial phenomena. This calendar must have been the base of reference used by the Maya astronomer - priests for their astronomical calculations which were made with a minimum of 4 decimals. Examples of this can be found in the codices.

b).- The civil calendar or Haab of 365 days is often referred to as the Vague Year. It is composed of 18 months of 20 days and one month 5 days long called uayeb. The difference of one fourth of a day in regard to the astronomical calendar makes a periodical correction necessary through methods foreseen by the Maya. Within this calendar runs the Tun year 360 days long which was used for calendric calculations.

c).-The Tzolkin, Mayan name that means "the distribution of the days", was a ceremony performed on the astronomical new year. In this ceremony the astronomer - priests indicated the days in which the agricultural labor and religious ceremonies were to take place within a 260 day cycle. The Tzolkin is also the name used to designate the most important calendar of the Maya which has also been called the sacred almanac or the Sacred Round. It is a combination of a cycle of 13 day numbers with a cycle of 20 day names (the Kin). In every 365 day Haab year there always runs a 260 day Tzolkin calendar.

The Maya usually described a date by specifying its position in both the Tzolkin and the Haab calendars, this alignment of the Sacred Round and the Vague Year generates the joint cycle called the Calendar Round.

In these two wheels, the smallest with 260 teeth (left) has on each one the name of the 260 days of the Tzolkin year and the largest with 365 teeth (right) has in their interstice the names of each of the positions of the Haab year. Since the Haab year always begins on a date 0 Pop and the Tzolkin year can only began in a day called Ik, Manik, Eb or Caban, when 2 Ik is placed in conjunction with 0 Pop and wheel A is rotated clockwise wheel B will rotate counterclockwise and the name of the Tzolkin day that corresponds to each Haab position falls into place.

This diagram explains graphically how the Tzolkin and the Haab calendars coordinate.


1).- The Kin

The Maya year has a basic unit called Kin, a word that means day, Sun, etc. The Tzolkin calendar has a cycle of 20 day names conbined with a cycle of 13 day numbers. Each of these 20 names has a glyph to represent it, these are:



2).- The Uinal

The Maya year is divided in 19 months, they are designated Uinal, each has a name and a corresponding glyph. Of these months, the first eighteen have twenty days and the last one, called Uayeb, has only five. The days within a month are numbered from 0 to 19 with the exception of Uayeb which is numbered from 0 to 4.



3).-The Numbers

To write their dates the Maya used both the glyph corresponding to the different time periods and a number for each of them. The Maya developed a unique mathematical system that uses dots for units and bars for five units. The numbers can be written vertically or horizontally. They discovered and used the zero as well as a vigesimal positioning system, similar to the decimal positioning system used today. Its symbols and their Arabic equivalents are:



Since the Maya numerical system is based on 20 units, when a number higher than 19 has to be written, a vertical positioning system that grows upwards is commonly used. Thus in order to write 20 they would place a zero in the bottom position with a dot on top of it. The dot in this place means one unit of the second order which is worth 20. To write 21, the zero would change to a dot and for the subsequent numbers the original 19 number count will follow in the first position. As they in turn reach 19 again, another units is added to the second position. This unit, for normal mathematical calculations, is worth 400 (20 x 20) , so to write 401 a dot goes in the first position , a zero in the second and a dot in the third. Positions higher than the third also grow multiplied by twenties from the previous ones. Only in the Maya calendric calculations is the third place unit worth 360 instead of 400, but after that, the rest of the positions also grow multiplied by twenties. Examples follow:




As we mentioned previously the Maya set a fixed date to initiate their calendric calculations. This date is 4 Ahau 8 Kumku which in the Gregorian calendar used today corresponds to August 13, 3114 BC As we do today, to write any specific date they would consider the time elapsed since the beginning of their calendar. In order to do this the days were grouped into units like today's years and centuries. Each of these units had a specific symbol (glyph). Their system is:






Using these glyphs combined with numbers, any date can be written as the number of days that have passed since the beginning of the calendar. The Maya wrote their dates of importance in stone monuments called stelae some of which we can still see today. Some of them are like the stela with today's date.

The Long Count is really a mixed base-20/base-18 representation of a number, representing the number of days since the start of the Mayan era. It is thus akin to the Julian Day Number.

The basic unit is the kin (day), which is the last component of the Long Count. Going from right to left the remaining components are:

uinal (1 uinal = 20 kin = 20 days)
tun (1 tun = 18 uinal = 360 days = approx. 1 year)
katun (1 katun = 20 tun = 7,200 days = approx. 20 years)
baktun (1 baktun = 20 katun = 144,000 days = approx. 394 years)

The kin, tun, and katun are numbered from 0 to 19.
The uinal are numbered from 0 to 17.
The baktun are numbered from 1 to 13.

Although they are not part of the Long Count, the Mayas had names for larger time spans. The following names are sometimes quoted, although they are not ancient Maya terms:

1 pictun = 20 baktun = 2,880,000 days = approx. 7885 years
1 calabtun = 20 pictun = 57,600,000 days = approx. 158,000 years
1 kinchiltun = 20 calabtun = 1,152,000,000 days = approx. 3 million years
1 alautun = 20 kinchiltun = 23,040,000,000 days = approx. 63 million years

The alautun is probably the longest named period in any calendar.




Logically, the first date in the Long Count should be 0.0.0.0.0, but as the baktun (the first component) are numbered from 1 to 13 rather than 0 to 12, this first date is actually written 13.0.0.0.0.

The authorities disagree on what 13.0.0.0.0 corresponds to in our calendar. I have come across three possible equivalences:

13.0.0.0.0 = 8 Sep 3114 BC (Julian) = 13 Aug 3114 BC (Gregorian)
13.0.0.0.0 = 6 Sep 3114 BC (Julian) = 11 Aug 3114 BC (Gregorian)
13.0.0.0.0 = 11 Nov 3374 BC (Julian) = 15 Oct 3374 BC (Gregorian)

Assuming one of the first two equivalences, the Long Count will again reach 13.0.0.0.0 on 21 or 23 December AD 2012 - a not too distant future.

The date 13.0.0.0.0 may have been the Mayas' idea of the date of the creation of the world.

What is the Tzolkin?

The Tzolkin date is a combination of two "week" lengths.

While our calendar uses a single week of seven days, the Mayan calendar used two different lengths of week:

* a numbered week of 13 days, in which the days were numbered from 1 to 13
* a named week of 20 days, in which the names of the days were:

0. Ahau 1. Imix 2. Ik 3. Akbal 4. Kan
5. Chicchan 6. Cimi 7. Manik 8. Lamat 9. Muluc
10. Oc 11. Chuen 12. Eb 13. Ben 14. Ix
15. Men 16. Cib 17. Caban 18. Etznab 19. Caunac

As the named week is 20 days and the smallest Long Count digit is 20 days, there is synchrony between the two; if, for example, the last digit of today's Long Count is 0, today must be Ahau; if it is 6, it must be Cimi. Since the numbered and the named week were both "weeks," each of their name/number change daily; therefore, the day after 3 Cimi is not 4 Cimi, but 4 Manik, and the day after that, 5 Lamat. The next time Cimi rolls around, 20 days later, it will be 10 Cimi instead of 3 Cimi. The next 3 Cimi will not occur until 260 (or 13 x 20) days have passed. This 260-day cycle also had good-luck or bad-luck associations connected with each day, and for this reason, it became known as the "divinatory year."

The "years" of the Tzolkin calendar are not counted.


webexhibits.org...

What is the Haab?

The Haab was the civil calendar of the Mayas. It consisted of 18 "months" of 20 days each, followed by 5 extra days, known as Uayeb. This gives a year length of 365 days.

The names of the month were:

1. Pop 7. Yaxkin 13. Mac
2. Uo 8. Mol 14. Kankin
3. Zip 9. Chen 15. Muan
4. Zotz 10. Yax 16. Pax
5. Tzec 11. Zac 17. Kayab
6. Xul 12. Ceh 18. Cumku

In contrast to the Tzolkin dates, the Haab month names changed every 20 days instead of daily; so the day after 4 Zotz would be 5 Zotz, followed by 6 Zotz ... up to 19 Zotz, which is followed by 0 Tzec.

The days of the month were numbered from 0 to 19. This use of a 0th day of the month in a civil calendar is unique to the Maya system; it is believed that the Mayas discovered the number zero, and the uses to which it could be put, centuries before it was discovered in Europe or Asia.

The Uayeb days acquired a very derogatory reputation for bad luck; known as "days without names" or "days without souls," and were observed as days of prayer and mourning. Fires were extinguished and the population refrained from eating hot food. Anyone born on those days was "doomed to a miserable life."

The years of the Haab calendar are not counted.

The length of the Tzolkin year was 260 days and the length of the Haab year was 365 days. The smallest number that can be divided evenly by 260 and 365 is 18,980, or 365×52; this was known as the Calendar Round. If a day is, for example, "4 Ahau 8 Cumku," the next day falling on "4 Ahau 8 Cumku" would be 18,980 days or about 52 years later. Among the Aztec, the end of a Calendar Round was a time of public panic as it was thought the world might be coming to an end. When the Pleaides crossed the horizon on 4 Ahau 8 Cumku, they knew the world had been granted another 52-year extension.

Although there were only 365 days in the Haab year, the Mayas were aware that a year is slightly longer than 365 days, and in fact, many of the month-names are associated with the seasons; Yaxkin, for example, means "new or strong sun" and, at the beginning of the Long Count, 1 Yaxkin was the day after the winter solstice, when the sun starts to shine for a longer period of time and higher in the sky. When the Long Count was put into motion, it was started at 7.13.0.0.0, and 0 Yaxkin corresponded with Midwinter Day, as it did at 13.0.0.0.0 back in 3114 B.C.E. The available evidence indicates that the Mayas estimated that a 365-day year precessed through all the seasons twice in 7.13.0.0.0 or 1,101,600 days.

We can therefore derive a value for the Mayan estimate of the year by dividing 1,101,600 by 365, subtracting 2, and taking that number and dividing 1,101,600 by the result, which gives us an answer of 365.242036 days, which is slightly more accurate than the 365.2425 days of the Gregorian calendar.

(This apparent accuracy could, however, be a simple coincidence. The Mayas estimated that a 365-day year precessed through all the seasons twice in 7.13.0.0.0 days. These numbers are only accurate to 2-3 digits. Suppose the 7.13.0.0.0 days had corresponded to 2.001 cycles rather than 2 cycles of the 365-day year, would the Mayas have noticed?)

In ancient times, the Mayans had a tradition of a 360-day year. But by the 4th century B.C.E. they took a different approach than either Europeans or Asians. They maintained three different calendars at the same time. In one of them, they divided a 365-day year into eighteen 20-day months followed by a five-day period that was part of no month. The five-day period was considered to be unlucky.





So why December 21, 2012?



Scholars have known for decades that the 13-baktun cycle of the Mayan "Long Count" system of timekeeping was set to end precisely on a winter solstice, and that this system was put in place some 2300 years ago. The very fact that the Maya were able to pinpoint a winter solstice far off into the future - has not been dealt with by Mayanists. And why did they choose the year 2012? One immediately gets the impression that there is a very strange mystery to be confronted here.

One of the main reasons Mayanists state for the end of the calendar during 2012, is because it was the end of the cycle. Some 400 years before their current cycle ended, they erected the next cycle, that would end in 2012. For all the same reasons we don't continue our current calendar thousands of years into the future; there's just no feasible reason to do so.

What else Mayanists say:

The turn of the great cycle is conjectured to have been of great significance to the Maya, but does not necessarily mark the end of the world. According to the Popol Vuh, a sacred book of the Maya, they were living in the fourth world. The Popol Vuh describes the first three worlds that the gods failed in making and the creation of the successful fourth world where men were placed. The Maya believed that the fourth world would end in catastrophe and the fifth and final world would be created that would signal the end of mankind.

The last creation ended on a long count of 13.0.0.0.0. Another 13.0.0.0.0 will occur on December 21, 2012, and it has been discussed in many New Age articles and books that this will be the end of this creation or something else entirely. However, the Maya abbreviated their long counts to just the last five vigesimal places. There were an infinitely larger number of units that were usually not shown. When the larger units were shown (notably on a monument from Coba), it is expressed as 13.13.13.13.13.13.13.0.0.0.0, where the larger units are evidently supposed to be 13s in all larger places. In this age we are only approaching 0.0.0.0.0.0.13.0.0.0.0, and the larger places are nowhere near the 13s that would match the end of the last creation.

This is confirmed by a date from Palenque, which projects forward in time to 1.0.0.0.0.0, which will occur on October 13, 4772. The Classic Period Maya obviously did not believe that the end of this age would occur in 2012. There will be a Baktun ending in 2012, a significant event being the end of a 400 year period, but not the end of the age.

The other theories:

Now this is where my research hit a bumpy road. I had to read about 200 pages of theories and documents and I still can't find a solid explanation of why the Mayans ended on this date. The best I could find, is the article linked below. But it's still quite edgy.

I'm some what disappointed in myself, and the material I read. I figured that if I read, researched, and understood the Mayan Calender, then I could come up with a feasible explanation. All of the scienctific websites completely dodged this topic, and after spending nearly a week reading into this subject, compiling this huge post, and then diving into the 'why' of 2012, I was bombarded by tons of really off the wall 'new age' theories. So I really can't give you a profound reason as to why the calender ended on this day..

edj.net...
This is the historic article, published in 1994, that first connected the end-date alignment with known concepts among the Maya. This is where I pointed out that the xibalba be (the dark-rift in Sagittarius) and the Sacred Tree (the crossing point formed by the Milky Way where it crosses over the ecliptic in Sagittarius) are essential keys to understanding how the Maya conceptualized the end-date alignment and encoded it into their mythic concepts.

Is there something significant we should know about the Winter Solstice date of December 21, 2012? Yes. On this day a rare astronomical and Mayan mythical event occurs. In astronomic terms, the Sun conjuncts the intersection of the Milky Way and the plane of the ecliptic. The Milky Way, as most of us know, extends in a general north-south direction in the night sky. The plane of the ecliptic is the track the Sun, Moon, planets and stars appear to travel in the sky, from east to west. It intersects the Milky Way at a 60 degree angle near the constellation Sagittarius.

The cosmic cross formed by the intersecting Milky Way and plane of the ecliptic was called the Sacred Tree by the Maya. The trunk of the tree, the Axis Mundi, is the Milky Way, and the main branch intersecting the tree is the plane of the ecliptic. Mythically, at sunrise on December 21, 2012, the Sun - our Father - rises to conjoin the center of the Sacred Tree, the World Tree, the Tree of Life..

This rare astronomical event, foretold in the Mayan creation story of the Hero Twins, and calculated empirically by them, will happen for many of us in our lifetime. The Sun has not conjoined the Milky Way and the plane of the ecliptic since some 25,800 years ago, long before the Mayans arrived on the scene and long before their predecessors the Olmecs arrived. What does this mean?

Due to a phenomenon called the precession of the equinoxes, caused by the Earth's wobble that lasts almost 26,000 years, the apparent location of the Winter Solstice sunrise has been ever so slowly moving toward the Galactic Center. Precession may be understood by watching a spinning top. Over many revolutions the top will rise and dip on its axis, not unlike how the Earth does over an extremely long period of time. One complete rise and dip constitutes the cycle of precession.

The Mayans noticed the relative slippage of the positions of stars in the night sky over long periods of observation, indicative of precession, and foretold this great coming attraction. By using an invention called the Long Count, the Mayans fast-forwarded to anchor December 21, 2012 as the end of their Great Cycle and then counted backwards to decide where the calendar would begin. Thus the Great Cycle we are currently in began on August 11, 3114 BCE But there's more.

The Great Cycle, lasting 1,872,000 days and equivalent to 5,125.36 years, is but one fifth of the Great Great Cycle, known scientifically as the Great Year or the Platonic Year - the length of the precession of the equinoxes. To use a metaphor from the modern industrial world, on Winter Solstice CE (Common Era) 2012 it is as if the Giant Odometer of Humanity on Earth hits 100,000 miles and all the cycles big and small turn over to begin anew. The present world age will end and a new world age will begin.

Over a year's time the Sun transits through the twelve houses of the zodiac. Many of us know this by what "Sun sign" is associated with our birthday. Upping the scale to the Platonic Year - the 26,000 year long cycle - we are shifting, astrologically, from the Age of Pisces to the Age of Aquarius. The Mayan calendar does not really "end" in 2012, but rather, all the cycles turn over and start again, vibrating to a new era. It is as if humanity and the Earth will graduate in the eyes of the Father Sun and Grandmother Milky Way.

Why should we care about the Mayans today? Is there anything we can learn from them? The trees give us oxygen to breathe and help create the nourishing rains upon which we depend, sustaining life. We are missing these rains in places where the trees have been cut down or burned. Fires begin that nature can no longer extinguish. For the Mayans, trees were intermediaries between the physical and spiritual worlds, and absolutely essential to life. They believed that without the tree man could not survive and that "with the death of the last tree comes the death of the human race."

The ancient carved stones and the stars themselves tell us we are on the brink of a new world age. There is no reason not to take a leap of faith into imagining what may be in store. We may trust that it is time for humanity to awaken into a true partnership with each other, with the Earth, and the Cosmos. By accepting this partnership we may claim our birthright and become Galactic Citizens who care for and sustain the planet, thus sustaining ourselves. This is clearly the challenge of our times. Yet, arriving just in time and on schedule is the Winter Solstice dawn on the day we may remember that we are truly Children of the World.

www.crawford2000.co.uk...

Here are some more theories:
www.greatdreams.com...
survive2012.com...
exodus2006.com...
www.2012.com.au...
www.diagnosis2012.co.uk...
www.surfingtheapocalypse.net...
exodus2006.com...

There have been many projected dates for the ending of the Mayan calendar, ranging from 1957 to 2050. The 2012 end-date was defined by the Thompson Projection. Thompson's projection used a day-by-day count to cross -reference the Mayan to the European calendar rather than a count of years. This bypassed the problem of year names in the Gregorian system. Jose & Lloydine agreed with Thompson's 2012 date. More importantly, the 2012 date works with the hard facts evidenced by the accuracy of the July 26, 1992 Time Shift. Terence McKenna and Peter Meyer's Timewave Zero software that graphs time as a fractal demonstrates by graph the accuracy of the winter solstice of 2012 as the correct end-date of the Mayan calendar with graph anomalies appearing in the months of July.

Hope this bit of research helps people better understand not only the date, but how it was contrived and what it may mean..



ATS Topics:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...




posted on Nov, 21 2005 @ 07:29 AM
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Excellent information. Thankyou for posting it.
Presently I am sort of self teaching myself some Maya.
It is the subject of 2012 that got me going on it. Presently I am concentrateing on the glyphs, but the callendar is just as important to me. Also, understanding the astological information available, and continue to re-read the prophecies that go along with it all.


I'm some what disappointed in myself, and the material I read. I figured that if I read, researched, and understood the Mayan Calender, then I could come up with a feasible explanation. All of the scienctific websites completely dodged this topic, and after spending nearly a week reading into this subject, compiling this huge post, and then diving into the 'why' of 2012, I was bombarded by tons of really off the wall 'new age' theories. So I really can't give you a profound reason as to why the calender ended on this day..


I would like to share something that really sums up where I am at with the Maya calander, and prophecies. It is from a book called the the "Maya Calendar" by a Carl Johan Calleman Ph.D.. Great book. I am just starting it.
Any way just a small example of his book, which of course includes all the technical Astological information as well:

"The Mayan calendar shares many of its messages with other spiritual traditions: "We are all One," "Life has a purpose," and "God is Love." Yet it should not be overlooked that it also conveys a unique message: There is a deadline for the creation of the enlightened golden age at "the end of time," and we all need to participate as co-creators in that process. This is the crucial message of the Mayan calendar that needs to be assimilated today. Many distortions and misunderstandings, as well as common skepticism toward prophecy in general, have, at least until now, blocked many from fully recognizing the divine time plan.
One typical musunderstanding is that the Mayan calendar is of interest only to those interested in Mayan culture. Of course, the ancient Maya were the first people to develop and study the calendar described in this book and should be given credit for that. Yet today interest in anthropology of ancient cultures is hardly a very compelling reason to study the Maya calendar, a prophetic source that concerns every member of our species. The Mayan calendar carries a universal truth that is probably a much more urgent topic for study in today's global community than it ever was to the Maya.
The Mayan calendar is a prophetic tradition. Prophesy, or the ability to make predictions about the future, is an art that has been looked upon very differently in different quarters and at different times.
Astrology, Kabbalah, Numerology, and tarot are examples of divinatory tools that have been--and still are---used all over the world by ordinary people as well as rulers. The readings of Nostradamus and Edgar Cayce, and the Hopi Prophecy have been proposed to be prophetic in content, and countless interpretations have purported to reveal their hidden messages. Most of these sources cannot be said to be unabiguosly true. Their lack of a timeline makes it impossible to judge whether the predictions made in them are really to the point or are merely the afterthoughts of an interpreter.
The timeline of the Mayan calendar , by contrast, unambiguously true and not of a hucus-pocus nature. Anyone with access to a standard encyclopedia can verify its validity from the facts of biological and historical evolution."

I don't make it a habbit to quote or copy and paste as a means to respond to posts, but I just could not say it any better, and it is what I would want say in response to understanding why "all of the scienctific websites completely dodged this topic". I believe it is not so much dodging any more for science.
Prophetic subjects with validity are more like a bur in their shoe or something. They won't talk about it or acknowledge it's validity, but they know deep down that it's there, and very valid. Their ego's keep them in fear of opening up to what they do not understand.

So how important is the calendar and understanding the Maya to me?
I am persueing to the best of my ability a life change. And I have chosen the way of the Maya so to speak.
Embeding images of glyphs and calendar cycles in my mind. Going to learn enough to make a transition to Central America sometime prior to 2011.


Why? Because it is prophesised that it is the sacred Maya Land that will be safe during the time of the calendars end cycle. It is strongly suggested to incorporate the way of the Maya into our lives today to truly be prepared for tomorrow. To be a part of makeing the transition from 4th to 5th I believe I will need their help, and the help of their ancestors who created this fantastic and prophetic calendar.

Peace..........






[edit on 21-11-2005 by connectabores]



posted on Nov, 23 2005 @ 01:04 PM
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No theories or proclomations yet. I just wanted to say well done on a quality, well put together post QuietSoul. That must have took some time. Thx



posted on Nov, 24 2005 @ 02:01 AM
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Maybe you should cross correlate it with the chinese zodiac and calendar systems. 2012 is also the year of the Dragon.

I have a suspicion that the chinese zodiac is somehow tied with the solar maxima and minima, since the occur about every 11.8 years. Close enough.



posted on Dec, 1 2005 @ 06:25 AM
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Hi all just posting this on mayan threads as it just shows that if you think something called the precision of the equinoxes is taking place that it already happened. Back in 1997. Which means if this is what the Maya were getting at somebody got it wrong with the translation of the date it was ment to happen. www.geocities.com...



posted on Dec, 2 2005 @ 02:50 PM
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Hi all just posting this on mayan threads as it just shows that if you think something called the precision of the equinoxes is taking place that it already happened. Back in 1997. Which means if this is what the Maya were getting at somebody got it wrong with the translation of the date it was ment to happen. www.geocities.com...


From the link above.


Carl Johan Calleman: in Mayan Calendar: Solving the Greatest Mystery of Our Time published 2001, gives a date for the end of the current longest cycle of the Maya calendar as 28 October 2011, based on 'the correct tzolkin count and a corrected ending date.' 2 Dr Calleman and Mr Jenkins have had a long and public disagreement on their subject of their two differing ideas 2. Dr Calleman has published a more recent book, The Mayan Calendar and the Transformation of Consciousness published 2004, with a forward by Mr Argüelles.


I am just getting started with learning what I can about the Maya, Mayan calendar, and Mayan glyphs. I am not an expert. I don’t know anything about the book “Solving the Greatest Mystery of Our Time”. Would like to comment on Calleman’s “The Mayan Calendar and the Transformation of Consciousness” because I am presently reading it.
What I am getting from his book so far is that he does not put importance upon the precision of the equinoxes.
It is referenced in the book about the long count consisting of 13 batkuns, which are periods of 400 tuns (360-day periods). One batkun is thus 400 X 360 = 144,000 days, amounting to 394.3 solar years.
From what I am getting Mr. Calleman believes that the 13 day count which is repeated twenty times in the sacred calendar of 260 days is just a condensed version of a “wave movement” produced by the seven odd-numbered and 6 even-numbered Heavens of the much longer “Great Cycle”. Apparently the 13 day count of the Tzolkin then becomes a kind of microscopic reflection of the energy changes that rule the long term spiral evolution of human history. He believes that this explains why each day has its own spiritual energy, and why some days are more favorable for creative activities than others.

Apparently the best way of getting into phase with cosmic creation is to follow the age-old classical Quinche-Maya-Aztec-Cherokee tzolkin count as a daily calendar, and then combine it with the Tun calendar of cosmic wave movements. In that way we may tune in to divine creation and become part of its unfolding.
I then get from the book that the evolution of consciousness is directly related to the heartbeat of Mother Earth, which the Mayan calendar helps us hear.

This heartbeat comes from the inside, not the outside of our planet. At most, astronomical cycles such as the solar year, the moon cycle, or the processional cycles reflect endlessly repeated life death cycles, such as summer-winter in certain parts of the world. “Non the less they have nothing to do with the divine plan helping human beings evolve to higher levels of consciousness”.

For prophecy we need to follow a calendar that is based only on the spiritual cycles of creation itself and is not adapted to the physical particularities of our own planet. “If prophecy is to be based on the spiritual reality, it must be linked to a calendar that describes this very reality”.







[edit on 2-12-2005 by connectabores]



posted on Dec, 2 2005 @ 04:02 PM
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Originally posted by connectaboresI would like to share something that really sums up where I am at with the Maya calander, and prophecies. It is from a book called the the "Maya Calendar" by a Carl Johan Calleman Ph.D.. Great book. I am just starting it.
Any way just a small example of his book, which of course includes all the technical Astological information as well:

"The Mayan calendar shares many of its messages with other spiritual traditions: "We are all One," "Life has a purpose," and "God is Love."


But, doesn't this DIRECTLY contradict the Mayan religion? It seriously sounds like a modern reformulation of the religion, mixing Christianity with the original teachings to form something that's not consistant with the past:
www.blackwell-synergy.com...

** There was not one God. There were many (166 is the figure I find, with no Main God.)
www.civilization.ca...
scholar.google.com...
www.reference.com...

** They practiced human sacrifice... lots and lots of sacrifice. This is hardly a concept of unity and love

** The purpose of life to the Maya was to feed the gods with sacrifices/killings. To the Maya, committing suicide (a self-sacrifice) guaranteed your place in heaven. I don't think Mr. Calleman would want to promote that (note: I say "Mr. Calleman" because I have done a lot of peering at academic journals and the like and don't see any confirmation that he ever got a PhD from an accredited university. So he may have taught himself and bought the degree, (studying who knows what books) rather than taken the coursework and done the archaeological digs) :
www.milligan.edu...&%20pdf%20files/maya.pdf
www.godchecker.com...

I think Mr. Calleman, rather than being an expert, is promoting his own version and may have little real contact with the culture and the archaeology. Revisioinism muddies the waters for us all -- in fact, there's one of many papers about recent revisionism in Mayan traditions and religions and how they hinder our ability to read the past:

www.dartmouth.edu...
sitemason.vanderbilt.edu...



posted on Dec, 2 2005 @ 06:52 PM
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This is starting to get a little complex for me. I want to really take the time to look closely at links you all post, and research before posting. This is pretty important topic for me. So when I don't respond for a few days, just know that I will be back.
Discussing this just adds to my learning, and very interested in learning.


peace...



posted on Dec, 3 2005 @ 04:48 AM
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Thing is nobody can tell what the hell is ment to happen anyway. They dont say exatcly what will happen and left lots of mystic clues for us to decipher. Im just not sure putting all your trust into it is a good idea. Aince they were quite a savage ancient race. Liek I said before how do they "know" the world had ended a few times before? Cos humans would not of been on it. They know apparently from their own gods therefore?? So your then trusting the world will end from an ancient mythical god? It would be like thinking the earth would end cos Zeus apparently said so.



posted on Dec, 4 2005 @ 07:32 AM
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Originally posted by Byrd

www.blackwell-synergy.com...

** There was not one God. There were many (166 is the figure I find, with no Main God.)
www.civilization.ca...
scholar.google.com...
www.reference.com...


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

THANKS, for an impressive & diverse list of links.....

i found the Dartmouth one most interesting, which focused on this general idea;

..."Just as Scaliger had no reason for assuming that anything more meaningful that the coming together of his three cycles will once again take place on January 1st, 3267, the Olmec priest (who configured the calendar) could not have foreseen any event of astronomical significance taking place on December 23, 2012, at the end of the Maya baktun 13.0.0.0.0.
Therefore, to suggest that this date will have any meaning or importance to anyone but a historian of chronology is to embroider it with a significance it was never intended to have."


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This paper titled 'The Astronomical Insignificance of Maya Date 13.0.0.0.0."
goes on to say that what John Major Jenkins promotes,
the rising of the solstice sun from the apparent MilkyWay center,
is incorrect & inaccurate....
inasmuch, the 2012 solstice sunrise as seen from any point in the Maya or Olmec mesoamerica...will actually rise some 6 degrees north of the galactic center, if one were even able to see the milkyway which is obscured by the
light of the sunrise itself,
& then the setting sun in 2012, will set some 7 degrees south of the galactic center.
......................................................................................


continued urls from Byrd
www.milligan.edu...&%20pdf%20files/maya.pdf
www.godchecker.com...



www.dartmouth.edu...
sitemason.vanderbilt.edu...


I try to sum up with a question...

Why does the Professor of Geology insist that the 2012 'viewing point'
should be in the Maya & Olmec mesoamerica land? specifically Edzna in the Yucatan
It would make more sense if the 'viewing point' for 2012 would be in this present eras 'focal point'...which is Greenwich, where both time and the planets surface is measured & standardized.
The Maya knew or prophecied their culture would become nonexistant and would have to be reborn/reconstituted...so it would be nonsensical to extrapolate a 2012 solstice sunrise from some distant futures site which might not be there or just forgotten-
It makes more sense that the Maya, who were more Astrological than Astronomical, just gave us the end/beginning date of the GreatYearCycle,
and if that information survived & endured....then it was up to that eras
political-military-economic-religious, world center (Greenwich, & western civilization) to observe this metaphysical event, then choose to heed to deride what 2012 might mean



posted on Dec, 5 2005 @ 03:17 PM
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most of the pictures which decipher what will happpen are up to you to think about. I dont see the Decendents of the Maya running about crapping themselves (and ytes they do exist)



posted on Feb, 15 2006 @ 04:50 PM
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the was someone on Coast to Coast last night....Steven Hairfield.

I just don't have the brains, or the patience to actually learn just how the mayans kept their count and such. but well, according to this guy, their years was a little shorter than ours, and that and a few other things, well, 2012 might be this year...

was just wondering if anyone else had heard this one?



posted on Feb, 15 2006 @ 05:36 PM
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Mighty fine copy and paste job.

As for scholars ignoring our past, when they confront ancient writings that don’t make and sense in our present day world, they reserve comment and move on to other "more fruitful" areas of study. And it sucks, it stinks, I hate it, that's why there are still so many mysteries.

They don't look at these events through the eyes of an unlearned native, who is the one passing on the memory.



posted on Feb, 15 2006 @ 05:58 PM
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Its too bad they have it wrong though, the sacred calander is the progression of Venus and the solar calender well that just Sol. The 5 beat scale is right though.

But the timing is all wrong. You see the sacred calendar and the solar calander must end and coincide with each Venus transit, so the solar calendar must be ending at the 365 count and the solar at the 260 day count at the end of the Venus transit set. The last time it does this in 2012 is 6/6/2012 when the solar and sacred calendars both end.

On 6/8/2004 the first of the two Venus transits began, this was the ending of the 365 solar cycle and the 200 day of the sacred cycle this day 200 count was a very religious day to the Mayan priests, A holy day to look to heavens and to the gods for guidance. The timing of the two calanders must always fall in accordance to the movement of Venus.

It also marks the end of the 5th cycle of the solar period and the end to the last 104 year Venus set, which is divided into two 52 year periods.

The end of the Mayan calendar ends with the last Venus transit in the year 2012. Marking the last day of the 5th solar period of our sun.

Just look up Transit of Venus the Mayan sacred calendar and that date 6/6/2012 and you will understand that 12/21/2012 is not the correct date.


I have given my 104 year spreadsheet out in the past PM me if you would like a copy

www.transitofvenus.org...

A transit of Venus is so rare that, up to June 8, 2004, no human then alive had witnessed this celestial event.

hey are instrumental in defining our place in the cosmos

Then next transit of Venus is June 5-6, 2012.

www.astrologycom.com...

The Mayan civilisation, along with the Aztecs and Incas, which were crushed by Spanish and Portuguese expansionism after the 1518/26 transits, all place tremendous important on Venus cycles. The Mayans regard the cycles of rising and setting of Venus near the Sun (heliacal cycle) as a key timing trigger in the world.

And Mayan prophecy states that the renewed world of new consciousness will be born on the occasion of the Venus Passage across the Sun of 6th June 2012. The Mayans had also been able to determine the exact timing between Venus passages to the number - 583.92 days.

www.diagnosis2012.co.uk...

The array included a 365-day solar calendar; a 260-day sacred calendar and a Long Count calendar that operated something like an odometer with a zero start date. Unlike the other calendars the Long Count clocked linear time and was programmed to stop after 5,125 years elapsed.

The Long Count was begun at the onset of this current cycle, known as the 5th Sun, in 3114 BC.

Since there were many variations of calendars in the ancient times and there is no exact cross- reference from Gregarian to Mayan the only thing we know is the cycle started in 3114 BC or there abouts, since we do not have the day or month we can not know exactly when their calendar is to end, EXCEPT we know how important the Venus and Solar tracking was and that the last period in the 5th Solar Period is to be the rebirth.

So maybe 6/6/2012 is nothing, except they thought it was going to awe inspiring enough IMO 12/21/2012 is generated by someone as a best guess and it might even be right, but the calendar dates an ending on a caledar date progression of nothing importance...



[edit on 15-2-2006 by robertfenix]



posted on Feb, 15 2006 @ 07:46 PM
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Heh, it's gunna be funny watching this site when 2012 come's and goes without a hitch. Just hope it stay's around that long!



posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 01:54 PM
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Or it'll be funny when we sart seeing things get progressively worse before then. You'll probably die before 2012 comes along, from starvation or disease or whatever. The earth's wobble has stopped wobbling.

www.michaelmandeville.com...

I don't expect anyone to read it, because it's pretty long and the guy uses a lot of technical language, so it'll probably come off as boring to the majority of readers here on ATS. But for anyone who's kind of smart, it makes for a good read, although you might lose some sleep thinking about all the problems to come.

It looks like the wobble might be starting to backtrack. We're seeing so many damn changes in the earth lately, and they only seem to be accelerating. So I know you'd like to hope that this stuff will fly by without a hitch, I know I do. I mean I'm not prepared for it, are you?



posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 09:06 PM
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Text BlackThough I have read quite a few articles and watched a few documentries on this particular subject of the Maya Calanders, it still remains a bewilderment of society of how well there astrological and date locations are prooven to be so accurate. I for one am a true believer in the technologies of our related past with such civilizations and know that for some reason, "They left information behind for the future to reveal." and that they were on to something very much ahead of their abilities,(Or were they?) Either way the article you have produced was quite informative and though the interpretation does get a little difficult, one can truly tell you are dedicated to finding the most apparent facts on this topic.I am no proffessional but your article is done very well.
Keep up the great research and hope to see some more of the suggestions and facts that you will come up with in the future.
Happy researching!



posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 09:35 AM
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"One day man will connect his apparatus to the very wheelwork of the universe... and the very forces that motivate the planets in their orbits and cause them to rotate will rotate his own machinery."


I for one am a true believer in the technologies of our related past with such civilizations and know that for some reason, "They left information behind for the future to reveal." and that they were on to something very much ahead of their abilities.


I for one believe that they knew what forces motivated the planets in their orbits and caused them to spin, and waged war amongst each other in this fashion. Lightning was the weapon of choice amongst the ancient gods, and comets were something to be feared. Why were those 5 days considered unlucky? Was there something about that period that made it the most opportune time for attack by comet?

Mars got the crap zapped out of it as we can see looking at it today, and this matches up with what the ancients say. By Venus, to be exact. And Venus used to be called the hairy planet, or the bearded planet, and shars some of the same glyphs as "comet" in some temples.



posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 11:19 AM
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All these different scenarios,makes me rethink selling houses and buying a new Lambo on Dec 1st 2012,darn and I had it all figured out lol



posted on Feb, 18 2006 @ 08:42 PM
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Has anyone read the new paper by Martha Macri?

She claims to have cracked the code of the calendar.

www.dailydemocrat.com...





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