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The Future Shaping Of ATSNN

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posted on Nov, 20 2005 @ 09:58 PM
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Originally posted by worldwatcher
Instead of "Experts" I think ATSNN need "Editors" and "Staff" willing to work with members on submissions, make changes, correct spelling and upgrade stories only when they meet acceptable standards.


If I remember correctly, ATSNN once had 'editors' and 'staff' that did what you are mentioning above. Alas, I have forgotten why ATSNN went away from having 'editors' and 'staff'.




seekerof




posted on Nov, 20 2005 @ 10:05 PM
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The former system had it's faults, too. I believe the current system is workable if someone would ride herd on the submissions, just to make sure that they meet minimum criteria. Personally, I think that if a person can't come up with at least three original, grammatical, declarative sentences as an anaylsis, that submission should not fly. That's not asking a heck of lot.



posted on Nov, 20 2005 @ 11:48 PM
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Originally posted by Mirthful Me
Also, it's time to get back to basics, not every "home town story" deserves an ATSNN thread, there are plenty of forums in ATS, BTS, and PTS where these can be posted.


I have to second this thought.
Yes I too have opsted my share of articles of perhaps dubious merit.......

In regards to the adding of more categories, I think we have enough as it is and perhaps even a few could be deleted.



posted on Nov, 21 2005 @ 02:18 AM
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Regarding ATSNN, I have seen Ordinary Member submissions moved down the list by Expert Submissions. Since the subject has already been touched on by others, I have a question. Is it possible to split ATSNN into a Subforum like the Collaborative Fiction is? A Subforum on short stories seems to work there.
A Subforum of exclusively Member or Expert articles might resolve some complaints.



posted on Nov, 21 2005 @ 04:22 AM
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Originally posted by FredT
In regards to the adding of more categories, I think we have enough as it is and perhaps even a few could be deleted.



What I mean though, is to change where they go into. Either have a sub-mission only forum, which isn't linked up to a RSS feed and once they get upgraded they get moved to a forum with the feed or have several RSS feeds like we do with PODcasting, so websites can pick 'Top 5' news stories, or ones dealing with just the War on Terror or just Science and Technology...



posted on Nov, 21 2005 @ 05:07 AM
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Probably have editors and reporters again, that system was good. The voting system is good, but the article shouldn't be voted straight up, it should go to the reporters who will decide.

Maybe we should ATS teams? for example, group of members in London could report breaking news from there? same for New York etc? more hands on work instead of using secondary sources from the net?..meaning we go and get our own stories



posted on Nov, 21 2005 @ 05:15 AM
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Originally posted by infinite
Maybe we should ATS teams? for example, group of members in London could report breaking news from there? same for New York etc? more hands on work instead of using secondary sources from the net?..meaning we go and get our own stories


And I agree with you, 100% mate.

This is what the future has to be. A unbiased news portal, of people who actually go out and get their own news stories. Instead of us being a source of secondary [or third] information because then we are bias - because we are reporting what another news group has to say who have their own agenda.



posted on Nov, 21 2005 @ 05:42 AM
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Originally posted by Odium
And I agree with you, 100% mate.

This is what the future has to be. A unbiased news portal, of people who actually go out and get their own news stories. Instead of us being a source of secondary [or third] information because then we are bias - because we are reporting what another news group has to say who have their own agenda.


I think Nerdling and SO have already stated that this is what they would like to see, well i recall this idea being brought up before.

But would the submission format have to be changed?



posted on Nov, 21 2005 @ 05:44 AM
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Ok but there is one issue with that... Press passes for legitimacy....

Thats the only stopper because without it reporters just won't "get in there"



posted on Nov, 21 2005 @ 05:46 AM
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Originally posted by Mayet
Ok but there is one issue with that... Press passes for legitimacy....

Thats the only stopper because without it reporters just won't "get in there"


Which is something Springer really needs to work on, [at least as far as I am aware it'd fall under his job].

If AP and other Online Based Newspapers can get them and my College can get me them for events which are important to the NUoS then I do not see why we can't.



posted on Nov, 21 2005 @ 05:51 AM
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As a execitive member of the NUS, i have contacts with all mainstream media in the UK and the NUS does give special passes out, sometimes.
But you dont always need a press pass, if we do, i dont have a clue how you go about and get registered as a legit reporter



posted on Nov, 21 2005 @ 07:03 AM
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There has to be a balance of responsibility and the ability to walk away at the end of the day. People should not feel like they are working. They're doing a valuable service but it should also be fun and interesting.

Putting people into roles is a bad idea. I think it might be better if everyone is equal and is subjected to the same rules. The Expert badge has caused problems with people, especially when it comes to using ATSNN as a soap box for their views.

The voting system can be changed but I'm hung up on making everyone subject to votes or having everyone automatically upgraded.

As for press passes; in the UK you have to be a member of the National Union of Journalists. The media organisation you represent must also supply details proving that you are with them.

ATSNN is classed as a blog/independent media collective also known in the business as an "indy house".

Some of the Op/Eds we've had have been awesome. Original content should trump mainstream news any time. Also, breaking news should come close to the top, it is the source of many of our best topics.

I'll come back with some concrete changes later, I have to make sure they're board-workable first



posted on Nov, 21 2005 @ 07:18 AM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
If I remember correctly, ATSNN once had 'editors' and 'staff' that did what you are mentioning above. Alas, I have forgotten why ATSNN went away from having 'editors' and 'staff'.


Repeated, reoccurring, drama episodes stemming from the perceived "power" of being on ATSNN staff.



posted on Nov, 21 2005 @ 07:24 AM
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Originally posted by Nerdling
As for press passes; in the UK you have to be a member of the National Union of Journalists. The media organisation you represent must also supply details proving that you are with them.

ATSNN is classed as a blog/independent media collective also known in the business as an "indy house".


But with the launch of the T.V. Station we can try to get these passes for members in places like New York or London and attempt to get first class material. That's the future.

[The future's bright, the future is Orange.]



posted on Nov, 21 2005 @ 08:05 AM
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British and American press card systems are different.

In the UK you really have to be a member of the accredited press and a member of the NUJ. NUJ membership is well controlled and if I recall correctly you have to prove you are a journalist or a journalism student.

The system is set up to keep independents out so I'm going to have to delve further into this.

People have many misconceptions about Journalism. Once you become a member of the press you have to abide by the spoken and unspoken rules of the game.

It is an enormous responsibility.



posted on Nov, 21 2005 @ 08:15 AM
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Originally posted by Nerdling
In the UK you really have to be a member of the accredited press and a member of the NUJ. NUJ membership is well controlled and if I recall correctly you have to prove you are a journalist or a journalism student.


Hmmm,
anyway around it? cause i dont want to attempt to report stories and end up facing legal action. So is on the ground reporting a bad idea for ATSNN?



posted on Nov, 21 2005 @ 10:21 AM
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We have covered this several times... There will NEVER be a dedicated staff at ATSNN again. It's the legal issues that prevent this. We can't have dedicated staff and repost news from other sources period.

I keep hearing lots of people talking about more original content on ATSNN but I don't see anyone PRODUCING original content for ATSNN.

You don't need the admins to do anything for that to happen. Just do it and post it.

Springer...



posted on Nov, 21 2005 @ 11:08 AM
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Here's a little subjective test for you. Which opening paragraph is better for a submission ( neither is perfect, I realize):

A


A report has been recieved of al-Zarqawi having blown himself up when surrounded by troops.

or B


This news is just breaking over CNN and other sources. Abu Musab al-Zarqawi may have been killed today when coalition forces surrounded a house believed to be a safe house. Inital reports state that eight occupants of the house committed suicide by blowing themselves up, rather than risk being taken alive by the coalition.


We may as well look at the wrap-up paragraph also:

C


Although this will be good news if true, I am sure they have backup leaders, and backup leaders behind the backup leaders to carry on their campaign.

or D


CNN reported this just a few moments ago. The terrorists chose suicide over a gun battle or surrender. al-Zarqawi was supposedly among the dead.

It would have been better to capture him alive. There will be much skepticism over the identity if he is indeed dead; recall the doubts over whether Saddam Hussein's two sons were actually the men in the pictures.

It is possible that the coalition has some DNA or other identification methods to determine if it is indeed al-Zarqawi. One wonders whether the recent bombings in Amman, Jordan, that al-Zarqawi claimed responsibility for, turned out to be his downfall in the end.


According to ATS, A and C are superior pieces of writing, since this submission was upgraded and mine was trashed.

I am new to this news submission game. I tried a few yesterday. It seemed as soon as I submitted, I got back u2us shooting my submissions down.

For the above submission, I was told:
A contributor voting NO on your submission: (submission) (ta-idividuals) al-Zarqawi May Have been Killed in Mosul has indicated they did so because they feel your topic really isn't appropriate for ATSNN.

and
A contributor voting NO on your submission: (submission) (ta-idividuals) al-Zarqawi May Have been Killed in Mosul has indicated they did so because they feel your story is already covered on ATSNN.
Mine was submitted earlier, btw.

Other submissions have been shot down with
A contributor voting NO on your submission: (submission) (war) Al-Zarkawi threatens Jordan's King Abdullah has indicated they did so because they feel your grammar or writing style could use improvement You may want to review your submission and consider an edit.

**********************************
I realize that these judments are mostly subjective. Some winners, however, flagrantly break the rules (one sentence opening and ending paragraphs?) and still get upgraded.

It's almost funny. I get slapped down because of my writing or grammar? Have you seen some of the stuff that passes for English here? Spelling absolutely does not matter, I've been told. Phonetics is acceptable, because if an author had to discipline himself to spell correctly, it would crowd his creative demon. HONESTLY, I HAVE BEEN TOLD JUST THAT! The person was probably about 12 years old, and I wouldn't be surprised if they are the same ones that are judging the submissions.:shk:

Want to fix it? Then make it so no voters are anonymous. We'll see what that does, then I have a ton more suggestions.




posted on Nov, 27 2005 @ 02:52 PM
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My $0.02.

1. Teach Informed Members to Write News in their Fields

We have some astounding members here - well informed and on top of their fields of interest. But many need a bit of help to learn the journalistic format. We lose some great articles only because the structure and presentation don't work - when frequently a 5 minute edit would fix the submission.

IMO - ATSNN would benefit greatly from some kind of editor-mentor volunteer program.


2. Go Beyond the "Objective Observer" Myth - OR - Post the Editorial Policy

The myth of the objective observer has been thoroughly debunked in every discipline from anthropology to psychology and physics. Yet apologists say journalism is unique and somehow above the fray. They argue that unlike rigorously trained scientists, responsible journalists armed with a 2 year college certificate are able to short-circuit the recognized scientific law: "Observers affect the process, simply by being present and aware."

Most publications insist that their coverage is unbiased and objective - while enforcing rigid behind-the-scenes editorial policies - and simply do not cover events or views that may contradict the publishers' party line.

A few publications publish contributions with and from a variety of perspectives, falling back on the simple solution and standard disclaimer, for example:

"Any views expressed by ATSNN reporters and ATS contributors are their own and do not necessarily reflect the position of AboveTopSecret owners, management, administration, or other members."

IMO - ATSNN should post a disclaimer, or else provide a clear editorial policy to contributors.



posted on Nov, 27 2005 @ 10:22 PM
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Hey sorry if somebody else has said this before but here's what I've got to say.

I think we should work on better seperating ATS type material from general news. What I'm talking about is that right now ATSNN is mostly just a gathering pool for other group's news stories. Most of the news here with the exception of the editorials is mostly what can be found at CNN or ABC.

Part of why I like ATS is the fact that ATS has information that's not found anywhere else on the net, yet is still credible. What I'm thinking is that ATSNN should focus more so on the conspiracy element of news, look for fishier stories.

For example, a story concerning a celebrity who dies under mysterious circumstances would be good. Such as if that person were very outspoken against a certain issue, or details of the death either don't add up or aren't avalible. And then we could discuss the conspiracy related side of things.

A not so good story would be if say Brad Pitt were to suddenly die in a car accident and everybody starts talking about which of his movies they liked. That would be just BTS.

So in short what I'm suggesting is that ATSNN only be used to report and discuss the conspiracy related topics. Or discuss the conspiracy related side of topics that appear ordinary to the ignorant eye. The regular news stuff were nobody really wants to discuss the conspiracy side of things could just go into the general news forum. Or we could make BTSNN for that stuff.

But hey those are just my crazy thoughts.



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