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Iran MPs vow to end atomic checks

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posted on Nov, 20 2005 @ 09:17 AM
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Iranian lawmakers on Sunday voted to oblige their government to stop allowing snap UN checks of atomic sites and to resume uranium enrichment if Tehran is referred to the UN Security Council.


In the vote, broadcast live on state radio, 183 out of 197 lawmakers present voted for the bill.

Iran faces referral to New York for possible sanctions after failing to convince the world its atomic scientists are focused on power stations rather than warheads.

"If they send Iran to the Security Council ... the government will be obliged to end all its voluntary measures and restart its activities," said lawmaker Alaeddin Boroujerdi, head of the foreign policy and national security commission.

Full story on Yahoo! News


Will referral to UN Security Council press Iran to cooperate?

Will it help in solving the problem?

Will UN Security Council be able give a clear, unanimous, decision on this subject?

Once in the UN, will the decision of the Council be implemented under UN authority or will it be a solo-act of USA?




posted on Nov, 20 2005 @ 09:35 AM
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If its a peaceful program with nothing to hide then one must ask, why go to this extent to stymie the questions about their program?



posted on Nov, 20 2005 @ 09:58 AM
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USA to prove that Iran is building Nukes.
.................or............
Iran to prove that it is not building Nukes.

Which one first?

So far no answers to questions in my initial post:




1-Will referral to UN Security Council press Iran to cooperate?

2-Will it help in solving the problem?

3-Will UN Security Council be able give a clear, unanimous, decision on this subject?

4-Once in the UN, will the decision of the Council be implemented under UN authority or will it be a solo-act of USA?


I have editted the original to add numbering for questions, a total of four, just for convenience.

It is not the past that is in focus.
All questions pertain to the future sequence of events, after the case is referred to the UN security Council



posted on Nov, 20 2005 @ 01:34 PM
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what do they have to fear?
they get refferd and China and Russia just have to veto

the worst thing that could happen is US santions against Iran
oh forgot thats been done so



posted on Nov, 20 2005 @ 02:20 PM
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Originally posted by bodrul
what do they have to fear?
they get refferd and China and Russia just have to veto


Yeah, thats the strategy. Say they will end checks if reffered to the SC, then when they are, they have China and Russia to veto, and then they can stop allowing checks and build nukes.


the worst thing that could happen is US santions against Iran
oh forgot thats been done so


No, the worst that could happen is the US invades. More likely, the US will just blow up their nuclear sites and call it a day.



posted on Nov, 20 2005 @ 03:06 PM
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curious if someone is on your ignore list how can they read your replys?
what the heck might aswell reply to mad man




Yeah, thats the strategy. Say they will end checks if reffered to the SC, then when they are, they have China and Russia to veto, and then they can stop allowing checks and build nukes.


yeap keep on dreaming

they have every right to do what they are doing
they have cooperated with the UN and so on with their nuclear tec and have made things clear from day one





No, the worst that could happen is the US invades. More likely, the US will just blow up their nuclear sites and call it a day.


and start a full scale war and send Iraq into caos since they are LARGELY shia'te and are forming closer ties with Iran

and unlike Iraq im sure Iran have some form of deffence or counter attack which would claim a few US ships and so on before going down


so Mad man bush would think twice before going on his little venture


NR

posted on Nov, 20 2005 @ 03:28 PM
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Originally posted by Phoenix
If its a peaceful program with nothing to hide then one must ask, why go to this extent to stymie the questions about their program?



Why do we have to get pushed around all the time? who is to judge what country is to make it's decision by another?, I hope we do get reffered to UNSC so that we can kick all those two-faced ***** out!.



posted on Nov, 20 2005 @ 03:37 PM
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Its that same attitude that you portray that has Iran in the position that it is in, NR. For your attitude is representative of the current Iranian attitude.

At the rate that Iran is going in maintaining that attitude, it is driving more and more nations to believe that Iran has something to truly hide in regards to their professed "peaceful intent" nuclear program.

Again, if Iran does not have anything to hide, then why not allow the UN nuclear inspections teams [ie: IAEA] to do their jobs?

Be assured that if this situation continues on the course it is now going, even Russia and China will eventually be persuaded to side with those other nations questioning Iran over their nuclear program(s). The only reason that they [ie: Russia and China] have not is because Iran is a major buyer of both Russian and Chinese military equipment.





seekerof

[edit on 20-11-2005 by Seekerof]


NR

posted on Nov, 20 2005 @ 03:44 PM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
Its that same attitude that portray that has Iran in the position that it is in, NR.
At the rate that Iran is going in maintaining that attitude, it is driving more and more nations to believe that Iran has something to truly hide in regards to their professed "peaceful intent" nuclear program.

Again, if Iran does not have anything to hide, then why not allow the UN nuclear inspections teams to do their jobs? Be assured that if this situation continues on the course it is now going, even Russia and China will eventually be persuaded to side with those other nations questioning Iran over their nuclear program(s). The only reason that have not is because Iran is a major buyer of both Russian and Chinese military equipment.





seekerof

[edit on 20-11-2005 by Seekerof]



That has to be one of the funniest posts i have heard in a long time, what attitude would that be? how are we getting in the U.N.'s way? care to tell me what nations have changed their mind regarding your claim other than the same nations such as U.S. EU and Canada?. You also claim Russia and China will be against us which i find the most halarious because if you think about it we gone through this 2 years now and they are still siding with us so good luck on that one!. Other than your claim saying were a major buyer for chinese and Russian military is false because we don't need to buy, Care to tell me what we bought from those 2 countrys so far? 200 billion dollar was signed between us and China ever since the first contract with 10 billion a year extending between the both of us every year for economic ties. Thats the same with Russia so I doubt they'll ever side with you guys that will only be a dream my freind.





[edit on 20-11-2005 by NR]



posted on Nov, 20 2005 @ 03:52 PM
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Originally posted by NR
That has to be one of the funniest posts i have heard in a long time, what attitude would that be? how are we getting in the U.N.'s way?


It is called an attitude of denial and definace, expressed here:

as posted by NR
I hope we do get reffered to UNSC so that we can kick all those two-faced ***** out!.






You also claim Russia and China will be against us which i find the most halarious because if you think about it we gone through this 2 years now and they are still siding with us so good luck on that one!.

As I mentioned: it is only because Iran's currency is still viable in buying those military hardwares from Russia and China. Time will tell, but even they can be persuaded to go against Iran, if matters persist on the course they currently are, NR. As for your claim that Iran does "not need to buy" from Russia or China, I find what you assert as being ludicrous, because quite frankly, Iran is buying military hardware from both Russia and China. Furthermore, you are being aided by them in military technology transfers, etc, which does not come without Iranian currency being allocated/given.

Your stance is 'a' typical, representative of one being in support of the radical Mullahs and the Revolutionary Guard. Have you goosestepped lately?






seekerof

[edit on 20-11-2005 by Seekerof]


NR

posted on Nov, 20 2005 @ 04:04 PM
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As I mentioned: it is only because Iran's currency is still viable in buying those military hardwares from Russia and China. Time will tell, but even they can be persuaded to go against Iran, if matters persist on the course they currently are, NR. And they you claim that Iran does "not need to buy," from Russia or China, I find what you assert as being ludicrous, because quite frankly, Iran is military hardware from both Russia and China. Furthermore, you are being aided by them in military technology transfers, etc, which does not come without Iranian currency being allocated/given.

Your stance is 'a' typical of one being in support of the radical mullahs and the Revolutionary Guard. Have you goose-stepped lately?





Think about it, do you think Russia will lose its top 5 biggest economic trade partner? what about China? You don't answer my questions intead you keep skipping and try and make more false accusations. Since were a big buyer for Chinese and Russian military equipment than care to show all of us the new things we bought or you have seen?.



posted on Nov, 20 2005 @ 04:33 PM
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Originally posted by bodrul
curious if someone is on your ignore list how can they read your replys?
what the heck might aswell reply to mad man


Clearly if you can read what I wrote, and I what you wrote, I am not on your ignore list.




yeap keep on dreaming


This isn't a dream of mine, but it is what I believe.


they have every right to do what they are doing


They have every right to peacefull civilian nuclear energy.


they have cooperated with the UN and so on with their nuclear tec and have made things clear from day one


Not exactly.



and start a full scale war and send Iraq into caos since they are LARGELY shia'te and are forming closer ties with Iran


Like I said, that is the worst that can happen, not what will happen. Just correcting you. Frankly, it is a situation which Iran must prepare for because it is an option, though it may not be the most likely.


and unlike Iraq im sure Iran have some form of deffence or counter attack which would claim a few US ships and so on before going down


Iraq had an air defence network second only to Russia in the first gulf war. Look at what happened then. Frankly, Iran simply does not have the means to take on the US military.

Secondly, do you really think that if you think Iran has something, the US hasn't also thought they have something, investigated it, and come up with several contigency plans and ways to get around it?


so Mad man bush would think twice before going on his little venture


Like I said, most likely the US would send a few cruise missles into Irans nuclear plants. No need to invade.



posted on Nov, 20 2005 @ 05:09 PM
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u are on my ignore list mad man (seems like you can read peoples replys if you click reply even if they are on your ignore list)
dont know why they put the function in the first place if it doesnt work



to your reply
fine thats what you believe and everyone is entitled to their opinion


also there is never a full proof situation (Iraq is a proof of that)

also it would eskilate to a full scale war

or did the US goverment expect Iran just to roll over and say ok you took out our nuclear power plant u win?


Iraq air defences were worse then even a third world country

thanks to over 10 years of santions and Nato bombings
maybe before the first gulf war


iran on the other hand no sanctions
so they were free to aquire new tec from china and russia and still are



posted on Nov, 20 2005 @ 05:12 PM
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Originally posted by NR
Since were a big buyer for Chinese and Russian military equipment than care to show all of us the new things we bought or you have seen?.


Iran is not as big of a buyer as they once were but they are still buying some weapons from Russia and China.



www.fas.org...

The total value of arms transfer agreements by China with Iran fell from $800 million to $100 million during the periods from 1996-1999 to 2000-2003 respectively. The value of Russia’s arms transfer agreements with Iran fell from $400 million in the earlier period to $200 million from 2000-2003.


cjf

posted on Nov, 20 2005 @ 06:28 PM
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Originally posted by AceOfBase
Iran is not as big of a buyer as they once were but they are still buying some weapons from Russia and China.


Good point.

Perhaps by falsely leading a country to a perceptive ‘self desired empowerment’ through implied clout may in fact lend itself to future sales… if a possible belligerent is driven in the right direction such as Iran?

What is worth more to a nation with high unemployment and inflation and a less than healthy economy… nuclear plant and tech exports… or firing-up an established industry creating employment and a causal industrial pull demand while grinding into the West’s economy? Russia (and China) may abstain from UNSC voting to usher a conflict and play Iran for the fool.


Originally posted by NR
Think about it, do you think Russia will lose its top 5 biggest economic trade partner? what about China? ...... Since were a big buyer for Chinese and Russian military equipment than care to show all of us the new things we bought or you have seen?.


Off the top of my head I remember the nations of Germany, Ukraine, U.S., Belarus, Italy, Netherlands, Kazakhstan as the top six? I do not know the ranking of ‘Iran to Russia’ but economically adding a long-term look, Iran well…..

As for China, do you think China will sacrifice a bolstering relationship with the US as its number one export destination followed in rank by Hong Kong, Japan and the EU? Again, arms exports mean more to both these countries than what Iran ‘has to offer’.

Both nations are watching Iran’s behavior.

If Iran’s military production facilities are destroyed and civilian infrastructure interrupted, who is Iran going to look to….. regardless of how Russia and China vote or more than likely abstain concerning the IAEA? Where will Iran’s currency be accepted? China and Russia are in the proverbial ‘catbird seat’, not Iran.


.



posted on Nov, 20 2005 @ 06:54 PM
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Originally posted by NR



As I mentioned: it is only because Iran's currency is still viable in buying those military hardwares from Russia and China. Time will tell, but even they can be persuaded to go against Iran, if matters persist on the course they currently are, NR. And they you claim that Iran does "not need to buy," from Russia or China, I find what you assert as being ludicrous, because quite frankly, Iran is military hardware from both Russia and China. Furthermore, you are being aided by them in military technology transfers, etc, which does not come without Iranian currency being allocated/given.

Your stance is 'a' typical of one being in support of the radical mullahs and the Revolutionary Guard. Have you goose-stepped lately?





Think about it, do you think Russia will lose its top 5 biggest economic trade partner? what about China? You don't answer my questions intead you keep skipping and try and make more false accusations. Since were a big buyer for Chinese and Russian military equipment than care to show all of us the new things we bought or you have seen?.




Well what about RPG's and AK-47's do you manufacture your own version of these? reactor technology is a big one, Surface to air missiles(SAM) are someothers i have heard about. it doesnt bother me abit, and personally if Iran wants nuclear technology let them have it, of course Israel wont be happy but let them deal with their own issues, if they want their own little cold war let them have it. Good business selling israel military equipment.

BTW does anyone know what type of devices their supposedly pursuing? are they simple fission bombs or are they hydrogen bombs?


NR

posted on Nov, 21 2005 @ 03:26 AM
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Well what about RPG's and AK-47's do you manufacture your own version of these?


Your dam right we make our own AKS and RPG's, M-16's also and Khaibar is already out for Basij.








Our own 40mm RPG-7




posted on Nov, 21 2005 @ 08:56 AM
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USA to prove that Iran is building Nukes.
.................or............
Iran to prove that it is not building Nukes.

Which one first?

So far no answers to questions in my initial post:

1-Will referral to UN Security Council press Iran to cooperate?

2-Will it help in solving the problem?

3-Will UN Security Council be able give a clear, unanimous, decision on this subject?

4-Once in the UN, will the decision of the Council be implemented under UN authority or will it be a solo-act of USA?



Boost-up AK47s, M-16s and RPG-7s's production................Iran needs them. Iran needs many more things.

Take on the thread.

Why to refer to UN Security Council?

What does US expect from SC? Sanctions? War on Iran? ....



posted on Nov, 21 2005 @ 10:03 AM
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by bodrul:
they have cooperated with the UN and so on with their nuclear tec and have made things clear from day one


As AMM has stated, Iran has not been entirely transparent with regards to disclosure to the IAEA.
IAEA Says Iran Failed to Disclose Key Nuclear Activities

As for NR's comment concerning Iran's lack of dependence on arms purchases from Russia and China ...
LINK

Iran's relationship with China may now eclipse that of Russia in military equipment sales. A $4.5-billion deal was announced in September. It is reported to include combat aircraft, fast patrol boats, multiple rocket launchers, armoured personnel carriers, surface-to-surface missiles, and missile launchers. Iran is to pay China over five years with cash and oil. Equipment that Iran has received already through procurement agreements with China include the F-8 Finback fighter, Hudong missile patrol boats that carry the C-802 ASCM, Silkworm ASCM, EM-52 rising mine, and various MBTs. China also is believed to be Iran's principle source of chemical weapon precursors and production technology, as well as pre-nuclear technology in the form of small research reactors and technical assistance in developing uranium resources.


The majority of Iranian military might, whether actual hardware or the technology to manufacture such, has been purchased.Yes, more and more, they are manufacturing their own hardware, but most of this is being accomplished using technology and/or components that have been purchased. While Iran does manufacture their own infantry related weaponry, i.e. AK-47s, RPG-7s, and light mortars, and more recently tanks,APCs, etc. they remain reliant upon the Soviets and China for much of their aircraft and pre-nuclear tech.

IMO, it's easy to retain support of a populace when you consider the following:
LINK

In Iran, 70% of industry is state-owned. All strategic heavy industries, particularly armaments, are state-owned. The petroleum and gas industries were nationalized in 1979. Banking is state-owned. Radio and TV broadcasting are a state monopoly and satellite dishes are banned. State-owned Iran Air carries three quarters of all Iranian air passengers. The Ministry of Culture and Islamic Guidance controls all 1,500 libraries. There were about 500 newspapers a few years ago but the government has closed scores recently
[edit for emphasis]

When you control the brush that paints the picture it's easy to convey an image to the citizens that will draw support and further your agenda. Just as blinders on a horse are used to reduce distractions and keep them focused on the task at hand.

Just my $.02


NR

posted on Nov, 21 2005 @ 10:13 AM
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As AMM has stated, Iran has not been entirely transparent with regards to disclosure to the IAEA.
IAEA Says Iran Failed to Disclose Key Nuclear Activities

As for NR's comment concerning Iran's lack of dependence on arms purchases from Russia and China ...
LINK




That source is from last year, We showed enough and theres still no proof so it doesn't matter.



The majority of Iranian military might, whether actual hardware or the technology to manufacture such, has been purchased.Yes, more and more, they are manufacturing their own hardware, but most of this is being accomplished using technology and/or components that have been purchased. While Iran does manufacture their own infantry related weaponry, i.e. AK-47s, RPG-7s, and light mortars, and more recently tanks,APCs, etc. they remain reliant upon the Soviets and China for much of their aircraft and pre-nuclear tech.




Theres nothing wrong with tehcnology transfer, people say it as its a bad thing but its more better for us. We were able to re-engineer more missiles than any other country next to Russia and China. We even copyed both C-801 and C-802 silkworm missiles, theres others such as Kosar and Noor with other fast patrol attak boats and anti-submarine boats ships such as Zulfaqar so again your sources are all old.




[edit on 21-11-2005 by NR]

[edit on 21-11-2005 by NR]



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