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What is a True or Real Christian?

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posted on Nov, 20 2005 @ 08:06 AM
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When I was young, I was told that the word Christian applied to all religions that followed the teachings of Christ. More and more these days, though, I'm hearing that certain religions (Catholic, Pentacostal, Methodist) aren't 'real Christians'.

Can anyone shed some light on what is meant by this?

If a Catholic isn't a Christian, what is he?

What religions are considered 'True Christians'?




posted on Nov, 20 2005 @ 08:29 AM
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The word Christian applied to all people that followed the teachings of Christ.

Use a smaller net. Not every christian is a member of a denomination, and not every member of a denomination is a christian.

The Episcopal church is breaking apart because the leadership is going the way of the world. You cant serve both God and Man.

I altered your opening post and made a statement on my opening line.
Here is the scripture to go along

Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

1Jo 2:3 And hereby we know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

1Jo 3:22 and whatsoever we ask we receive of him, because we keep his commandments and do the things that are pleasing in his sight.

1Jo 5:2 Hereby we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and do his commandments.
1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Rom 8:12 So then, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh:
Rom 8:13 for if ye live after the flesh, ye must die; but if by the Spirit ye put to death the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.





Finally...everyone who does not keep Christs two commandments..will not be judged by Christ at the frist resurrection , but by God at the second

Joh 12:47 And if any man hear my sayings, and keep them not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Joh 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my sayings, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I spake, the same shall judge him in the last day.


#########

So what is a christian?
You can see on these boards that the worlds answer and the bibles answer are two different things. The world does not know God nor His Word.
The world loves labels and so they label anyone who claims to be christian, as a christian. If you are different then me, then they make sub labels.
Christ has one definition and I gave it above.
In that same manner... you cannot make the claim that all catholics are not saved because there are some that hold the very beliefs I just showed you above and they do not pray to Mary or angels either.

Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Every word out of the mouth of God

Test the spirit by the fruit it bears. Above is the standard.



posted on Nov, 20 2005 @ 10:09 AM
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So, jake, what I'm hearing is that it doesn't matter what church or religion a person belongs to, being a true Christian depends on whether or not a person is saved. Is that correct?

So then by your definition, Methodists, Catholics, Baptists could all be true Christians or might not be.

I have heard though, that Catholics are not Christians. Can you (or anyone) explain this statement? Even if you don't agree, do you know what people mean when they say this?

It's baffling. Like Catholocism isn't a Christian religion. THat's what I'm getting at.



posted on Nov, 20 2005 @ 10:51 AM
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You have it down.

Now the reason your confused is because your casting too wide a net AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, your focusing on the institution and not the individual.

A personal relationship with God, being born again vs 'The official doctrine of an institution' which not every member of said institution agrees with.

The RCC doctrine vs the Doctrine of CHrist.
In the RCC doctrine you rely on church tradition as much as or more then the bible.
If you want to say something is not christian, then speak of the doctrine...and then scripture is helpful. Paul has alot to say about it.
RCC doctrine says mary was born without sin, and rose up into heaven like Jesus and is now queen of heaven.
The bible says no such thing
Not all catholics believe the rcc doctrine.

So by secular definition you could label anyone as a christian
Christ is the only one who matters tho...so a ™True Christian™ *LOL* is one who keeps Christs word



posted on Nov, 20 2005 @ 11:17 AM
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I can explain it, although I'm biased -so take it with a grain of salt.
Roman Catholics can pray to saints, asking them to intercede on their behalf -rather than asking God personally. Martin Luther (and many other religious scholars) thought this was idol worship, and that it lessened rather than enhanced closeness to God. He also thought the sacrament of Communion (consuming the transubstantiated body and blood of Christ) was a bad idea. So he and a bunch of others broke away from the Roman Catholic Church and formed what is now called the Lutheran Church. They kept most of the tenets of Cathoicism, but dropped the icons of saints and only had communion on special days.

Some thought that wasn't enough, and revised versions of Christianity started popping up all over the place. All of them had the same goal: To be closer to God... To be on the right path to salvation.

Some people find the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church so abhorrent that they declare Catholics to be something other than Christian. I think Jake1997 has the right of it:



The word Christian applied to all people that followed the teachings of Christ.



posted on Nov, 20 2005 @ 09:14 PM
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probably the "most true" Christians are Gnostics and the (long-ago exterminated) Cathars.

The rest are probably more accurately classified as "Paulinists".

I'm none of the above but I've studied a lot of the history and doctrines. That's my opinion.



posted on Nov, 20 2005 @ 09:53 PM
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To be honest I think all Christians believe they are 'true' Christians.

Who is though?

Only God knows for sure.



posted on Nov, 21 2005 @ 07:31 PM
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Looks like everyone covered this well...

You have eternal life only if you aer born again...
thekingiscomingtoreign.blogspot.com...

BUT doctrinally speaking, RCC should not be classified as Christian because of the doctrine:

www.chick.com...



posted on Nov, 21 2005 @ 07:53 PM
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Originally posted by seawater999
You have eternal life only if you aer born again...


"Show me a child who has been engendered through a theory... only the sexual energy can engender." - Samael Aun Weor

To be born again is not about accepting a new ideology, it is a literal requirement.


[edit on 21/11/2005 by AkashicWanderer]



posted on Nov, 21 2005 @ 08:56 PM
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I am a Roman Catholic and I am a Christian.

Jesus is my Lord and Savior. I do try to keep the 2 greatest Commandments that Jesus gave us. To love God with all my heart and soul and to love my neighbor as He has loved me.

I do believe that Jesus died for my sins. If I am sorry for my sin, because I have hurt Jesus by my sinning, I can ask for forgiveness and be forgiven.

I do not worship Mary or statues. Yes, I do believe Mary was born without sin by her son's merits. Mary did not "rise" into heaven but was taken up by her son, Jesus.

I also believe in the "Communion of saints". Everyone is called to be a saint. I also believe in prayers of intercession.

It is my belief that "tradition" of the Church helps to interpret and explain the Bible. The Bible does come first.



posted on Nov, 21 2005 @ 11:43 PM
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Originally posted by Mahree
[...]I do not worship Mary or statues. Yes, I do believe Mary was born without sin by her son's merits. [...]


Everything you said I generally agree with except that.

Mary was NOT sinless. Jesus had to die for her sins as well



posted on Nov, 22 2005 @ 04:17 AM
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I believe in most of that too.

NOt the mary is sinless
Not the mary was raised to heave where she is now queen
Not the communion of dead saints
Not the traditions of the church that teach the above.

Those tradtions are covered by this scripture

Deu 4:1 Now therefore hearken, O Israel, unto the statutes and unto the judgments, which I teach you, for to do them, that ye may live, and go in and possess the land which the LORD God of your fathers giveth you.
Deu 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish aught from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.


Deut 4 goes on to add some detail, and later on we see several things that sound like the very same tradition which God is warning against

Deu 4:15 "Therefore watch yourselves very carefully. Since you saw no form on the day that the LORD spoke to you at Horeb out of the midst of the fire,
Deu 4:16 beware lest you act corruptly by making a carved image for yourselves, in the form of any figure, the likeness of male or female,
Deu 4:17 the likeness of any animal that is on the earth, the likeness of any winged bird that flies in the air,
Deu 4:18 the likeness of anything that creeps on the ground, the likeness of any fish that is in the water under the earth.
Deu 4:19 And beware lest you raise your eyes to heaven, and when you see the sun and the moon and the stars, all the host of heaven, you be drawn away and bow down to them and serve them, things that the LORD your God has allotted to all the peoples under the whole heaven.


Deu 4:23 Take care, lest you forget the covenant of the LORD your God, which he made with you, and make a carved image, the form of anything that the LORD your God has forbidden you.


Then there is the commandment

Deu 5:8 "'You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

Dont even make them

Deu 5:9 You shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,
Deu 5:10 but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.



posted on Nov, 22 2005 @ 04:44 AM
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many denominations believe that their view is the "right" view and the others dont really count. Catholics confess their sins to a priest instead of confessing to God, which some chirstians view as not being christian. Another idea is that Catholics are so focused on tradition and gain(read "crusades", the religion has fallen to the wayside.

I believe true Christians should follow what the Bible(and Jesus) teaches, not a denomination, with its traditions and possibly corrupt leaders.

---Pineapple



posted on Nov, 22 2005 @ 05:18 AM
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Thanks for your replies, but if you still think that I am not a Christian, that is your problem, not mine.

My personal relationship with Jesus, my Lord and Savior, is wonderful. He is so close to me sometimes I am walking in His Glory. I try to live in His Presence 24/7.

I am a convert to Catholicism. I was not "brainwashed" as a child. After doing research about most Christian beliefs and even some about the Islam and Jewish religions, I freely accepted God's Grace and Jesus' love for me as a Catholic.

Contrary to the popular belief that Catholics do not read the Bible, I have read the Bible through several times, but now spend most of my reading time meditating on the gospels.

All of your problems about Catholic Christians have been answered many times in other threads. If you are really interested, check them out.

I did look at one of the above links: http.//www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0071/0071_an.asp
Most of what it says there are misrepresentations about the Catholic Church.



posted on Nov, 22 2005 @ 03:06 PM
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For the record

1.) The term "brainwashed" was not mentioned by me. I usually see it mentioned by the nonbeliever when referring to believers in general. If anyone besides yourself mentioned it , I did not see it.

2.) Nobody here was talking about your level of faith or you standing with God. The only thing being talked about was RCC doctrine, the portion of which is CONTRARY to the Word of God. Which one you choose to follow is between you and God.

3.) I dont have any questions and the only person I ever saw posting a like to chick was a catholic who was making a classic straw man arguement. (ie...talk about chick as if he represents my position and then knock chick down)
No, I will offer scripture. The RCC adds to it and goes against it in too many places.

Joh 14:23 Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
Joh 14:24 Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. And the word that you hear is not mine but the Father's who sent me.



posted on Nov, 22 2005 @ 06:20 PM
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Originally posted by jake1997
For the record

1.) The term "brainwashed" was not mentioned by me. I usually see it mentioned by the nonbeliever when referring to believers in general. If anyone besides yourself mentioned it , I did not see it.


Sorry Jake, I didn't mean that you had said that. It IS a statement I have heard many times and I guess I just wanted to get it out of the way.


by Jake: 2.) Nobody here was talking about your level of faith or you standing with God. The only thing being talked about was RCC doctrine, the portion of which is CONTRARY to the Word of God. Which one you choose to follow is between you and God.


No, I am not going to argue with you Jake. I was stating my position about the Roman Catholic Church. And Yes, you are right. It is between me and God.

The original question was asked about Catholics, Christian or not. Plenty of folks spoke up about why they felt Catholics were not Christian and I wanted to defend my position of being a Catholic Christian. I am Catholic and I am a Christian.


Joh 14:23 Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
Joh 14:24 Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. And the word that you hear is not mine but the Father's who sent me.


It cannot be any more clear than that!



posted on Nov, 23 2005 @ 03:48 AM
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I wish i coulda found that verse at the beginning. It would have been a very short thread.



posted on Nov, 23 2005 @ 12:31 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
When I was young, I was told that the word Christian applied to all religions that followed the teachings of Christ. More and more these days, though, I'm hearing that certain religions (Catholic, Pentacostal, Methodist) aren't 'real Christians'.

Can anyone shed some light on what is meant by this?

If a Catholic isn't a Christian, what is he?

What religions are considered 'True Christians'?


Great thread topic Benevolent!

I would like to think that "True Christians" are people who do not necessarily have to be people who define themselves as Christians, but do parrallel the teachings of Christ, but not necessarily the teachings of the early church and first Christian followers.

Christians to me describes someone who attempts to make themselves more knowledgable about Christianity, and makes an effort to understand what 2,000+ years of history tells us Christ was about.

"True Christians" may very well be a term other "Christians" use as a label to describe people who do not subscribe to the exact same beliefs and practices as the "True Christian" does, from the perspective of one who considers themselves a "True Christian".

However a "True Christian" to me is simply someone who practices and demonstrates relatively consistantly actions and behaviors that reflect the teachings of a man known today as Jesus, and exhibits personality/character traits that show to those around them they feel they are no better than anyone else, who are tolerant of others needs and wants, and hold a higher reverence for others's needs and wants over their own needs and wants.

**(NOTE) However (I believe) it is difficult for some to percieve how someone could hold their needs and wants as a higher priority than their own needs and wants, especially if they have never held in higher reverence the needs and wants of others higher than their own needs, wants, and endulgent tendencies.**

To summerize "True Christians" to me is both someone who thinks they are more Christian than Christians (in their minds), and someone who exhibits through actions and behaviors that they are striving to "Do unto others as you'd have done unto yourself". However a "True Christian" may view other Christians as being ones who are equating how they would like to be treated (generally and inter-personal) and applying those values on others where as a "True Christian" from the perspective of a "True Christian" may only hold a high reverence for the values and morals that all people think are positive, no matter the labels that are either self imposed, or assigned by the society in which they live. In other words "True Christians" may feel what makes them "True Christians" because they value the will of everyone else over what they may personnally value, because they are attempting to suppress their ego and pride, and enhance their empathy, tolerance, and humility.

I guess that may not be the best answer, but from the perspectives of many of those who may refer to themselves as "Christians" or "True Christians" these definitions make sense, but the sense the phrase "True Christian" means may be relative to the individual. I think it is neither wrong nor right, just an opportunity to learn how to be a better person.



[edit on 23-11-2005 by Esoteric Teacher]



posted on Nov, 23 2005 @ 12:33 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
So, jake, what I'm hearing is that it doesn't matter what church or religion a person belongs to, being a true Christian depends on whether or not a person is saved. Is that correct?

So then by your definition, Methodists, Catholics, Baptists could all be true Christians or might not be.


For what it is worth, I do agree with the above statement.




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