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Why Jesus is not god

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posted on Nov, 19 2005 @ 09:54 PM
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The following may offend christians. But i am just pointing out the truth.
1. Christians say Jesus is god, but how could he of been god if he worshipped god.
2. Also god is eternal and you claim that jesus dies where as god can't die.
3. Jesus was human and had human features. We all know that god is different than us humans in every way.
4. Jesus said to several tribes to worship god alone and he never once said he was god.

I have many other points to make but these should be enough for now. I am a muslim and if you people would like to ask me a question about Islam please feel free. I am not here to offend anyone just the truth and if you christians can answer my points i would like it.




posted on Nov, 19 2005 @ 10:09 PM
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Originally posted by Desert Fox
1. Christians say Jesus is god, but how could he of been god if he worshipped god.


You can be yourself, and worship yourself. Can you not?


2. Also god is eternal and you claim that jesus dies where as god can't die.


Death is not the opposite of life, it is the opposite of birth. Christ is still alive, just not in physical form.


3. Jesus was human and had human features. We all know that god is different than us humans in every way.


How do we know that?


4. Jesus said to several tribes to worship god alone


Telling others to worship you, does not mean you are not yourself.


and he never once said he was god.


Since we do not know what Jesus said or did not say, we can only rely on the bible for subjective proof. The following are biblical references to Jesus being God:

Jesus Christ is God Incarnate


I am a muslim and if you people would like to ask me a question about Islam please feel free.


Sure
.

What is Islam's take on meditation and contemplation?

What is Islam's take on reincarnation?

Inverencial Peace,
Akashic



posted on Nov, 19 2005 @ 11:17 PM
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Originally posted by Desert Fox
The following may offend christians. But i am just pointing out the truth.
1. Christians say Jesus is god, but how could he of been god if he worshipped god.
2. Also god is eternal and you claim that jesus dies where as god can't die.
3. Jesus was human and had human features. We all know that god is different than us humans in every way.
4. Jesus said to several tribes to worship god alone and he never once said he was god.


This has been debated for over 1000 years, and you have nothing to add to this discussion since you assume that Christians think Jesus is God, when they dont.

Jesus is both God and Man. Jesus said himself that he is the son of God.. the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob, and is a decendant of from the line of David. But was also born as a mortal man from the womb of a women. He was given his mortality and divine nature so that he could fullfil the Law, and also be resurected after his sacrifice on the cross.

1. Jesus prayed to his father, who was God. YOu could call it worship, but then he was fullfilling the role of a God fearing jew.

2. Jesus died because he was God given flesh as Man.. also the prophesy could not have been fufilled unless Jesus did die

3. Jesus was tempted and weak like all men, but had the powers of God to forgive sinners

4. The hardest concept of any muslim is to understand the idea of a Triune God, a God that has 3 aspects (father son, and holy spirit) but is one being.

I have asked questiosn to muslims about Islam.. and too often they decline to answer or in turn attack Chrisitianity in thier defense

In Christianity, Jesus is God in flesh who paid for our sins on the cross (1 Pet. 2:24). Because of that, we Christians are secure in Him and do not have to worry about doing enough good works to please God since we are saved by grace through faith in Him, (Eph. 2:8-9).
Question: Why should Christians give up our guarantee of salvation in Jesus for the requirements of your Qur'anic law when you yourselves don't even know if you have done enough good deeds to be saved on the Day of Judgment? Isn't a garuntee better, then having to do works to attain salvation?



posted on Nov, 20 2005 @ 09:10 AM
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I have heard someone ask a Muslim to consider the "1 are 3 and the 3 are 1" this way.

The sun. It is one object. Yet you know it 3 different ways
1. It is an object that is 93 million miles away. A physical body floating in space.
If you go there you can measure its density
2. When the sun rises you can see its light. The light travels here and lights the earth. You can not even see the sun itself because the light is so bright.
3. You can feel its warmth. When sun is up ...still 93 million miles away... you can feel its warmth on your skin

One sun, 3 completely different aspects that cannot be substituted.

Same with God.
God is the head
Christ is the light
The Holy Spirit is the warmth

It is possilbe for 1 to be 3 and 3 to be one.

Now, here are some verses for your topic

John 1:1-3, 14—“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.... And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”

Jesus is the word and the word IS GOD.
There are no two ways to view that. This chapter also explains that Jesus is the light

Also, look what happens here

Joh 20:26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them. Jesus cometh, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
Joh 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and see my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and put it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
Joh 20:28 Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Joh 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

many times Jesus is called Lord

Then we have this

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness; He who was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the spirit, Seen of angels, Preached among the nations, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

Hebrews 1:1-3—“God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high.”


Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was born, I am.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made through him; and without him was not anything made that hath been made.

Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

John 5:17-26—“But Jesus answered them, ‘My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.’ Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God. Then Jesus answered and said to them,... ‘For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will.... For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself’


Jesus gives eternal life

John 10:28-39—“And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Mat 11:27 All things have been delivered unto me of my Father: and no one knoweth the Son, save the Father; neither doth any know the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son willeth to reveal him.

Hope this helps
thanks



posted on Nov, 20 2005 @ 06:40 PM
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What is Islam's take on meditation and contemplation? Islam allows contemplation and many muslims including myself practice it. As for meditation it is fine in Islam as long as one is remembering God.

What is Islam's take on reincarnation? Muslims do not believe in Reincarnation, but we do believe in ressurection.

quote: Originally posted by Desert Fox
1. Christians say Jesus is god, but how could he of been god if he worshipped god.


You can be yourself, and worship yourself. Can you not?

Why on earth would god worship himself. Remember that god created us to worship him alone. And also jesus was created and god was not created so how can he be god. He was even a foetus like all of us, so does that mean that we can now claim to be gods.

quote: 2. Also god is eternal and you claim that jesus dies where as god can't die.

Death is not the opposite of life, it is the opposite of birth. Christ is still alive, just not in physical form.

Birth is life, and also god in alive in a physical form and always will be so jesus is not god. Also if he was god how could he even allow people to slay him? Isn't god the most powerful.


quote: 3. Jesus was human and had human features. We all know that god is different than us humans in every way.

How do we know that?

God and Human are two different things. It's like saying cat and dog, are they the same?

And here is proof from your own bible that jesus is not god:

You may know and believe me and understand that i am he. Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me. I, I am the lord, and besided me there is no savior. (Isaiah 43: 10-11).

And whoever wants to ask a question about Islam e-mail me at covert2004@gmail.com. Thanks.



posted on Nov, 20 2005 @ 10:34 PM
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don't you read anyone else's post? It seems you are the only one claiming Jesus is God.



posted on Nov, 21 2005 @ 10:03 AM
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John 1:1 says that “the Word was God.
It also says that Jesus is the Word.

Jesus is God, Jesus is the Son of God

"I and my Father are One"

That is very clear. Jesus is God. Some of you may take a spiritual meaning to that. Read its context. They were ready to stone Jesus because of that statement

Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.
Joh 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
Joh 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

They understood very clearly and thats why they were going to stone Him.
Jesus said the words. Jesus made the claim, and they wanted to stone Him for it

The apostles understood it too. Look here where Jesus is called both God and Savior

Tit 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ;
Tit 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Verse 14 clarifies 13 so you cannot say he was speaking about 2 different ones. One 'entity', two titles/persons


The pharisees had no excuse to not see it. They were masters of scripture. That is why Paul was so well versed in it. He was a Pharisee.


Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

This is why scripture says

1Jo 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: but he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

Because if you reject Jesus Christ, then you are rejecting God.
This is also how we know that islam does not worship the God of the bible. No Christ, no God



posted on Nov, 21 2005 @ 12:16 PM
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The way I see it, God is the name for the Trinity - Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Jesus was praying to the Father.

Both Father and Son are able to use the Holy Spirit to accomplish that which they please.

But Jesus had to become man to fulfill the Father's plan, which in actuality is God's plan - since all 3 aspects of God share the same attributes.

Either you can accept this, or you can't - but that's what I believe.

[edit on 21-11-2005 by Simon_the_byron]



posted on Nov, 21 2005 @ 10:18 PM
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Jesus was created and therefore it is impossible for him to be god. Remeber god at one time was the only living thing. The jesus was created and somehow people think that he is god. God has no mother or son or anything. He is god the one. And the trinity is wrong you people are saying there are 3 beings that make 1, when like i said god is one and was the only living thing at one time. Jesus was a prophet and messenger and thats that. How much proof do you people need to understand.



posted on Nov, 21 2005 @ 11:55 PM
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THere is really no point in furthering this discussion. The Koran and Bible are in direct conflict with eachother and we cannot point to our holy book and say the other is wrong.

There are some fundemental differnaces between the bible and the Koran that makes it impossible to draw comparisons and it will end up in a debate no one will win

Islam:


  • Jesus was only a prophet
  • Jesus Was not crucified
  • we are free from Original sin
  • Salvation only comes from Allah
  • Christ was created, and was not around at the same time as creation
  • God has no sons
  • Goes as far to reject the dvinity of Jesus (koran 4:171)
  • Rejects the idea of the Trinity, and instead thinks of them as 3 Gods, not one.


heck the Koran even goes as far to say God never rested after creating the world after 6 days

Who are we to belive?



posted on Nov, 22 2005 @ 12:57 AM
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So what if the koran rejects jesus as divine. God is one and thats that. And also who do you think you are lieing against the koran, it does not say that god rested after he created the world in six days. Where you got that from i don't know. Where is your proof.



posted on Nov, 22 2005 @ 03:55 AM
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Fox

You wanted to know where the idea comes from. I showed you in the bible where it says Jesus is God.
I showed you where JESUS SAID IT.

It was said many times and I even showed you where the prophets said it.

If you want to ignore it all, then why even start the thread?



posted on Nov, 22 2005 @ 04:06 AM
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#2:

jesus was killed in order to conquer death.

He comes back after being killed, thats the main point of it, he doesnt just die.

---Pineapple



posted on Nov, 22 2005 @ 06:46 AM
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Originally posted by Desert Fox
So what if the koran rejects jesus as divine. God is one and thats that. And also who do you think you are lieing against the koran, it does not say that god rested after he created the world in six days. Where you got that from i don't know. Where is your proof.


The point is, that if you follow the Koran, then Jesus is not a God. But if you follow the Bible, Jesus is God. Thus is why this discussion is rather pointless

"We created the heavens and the earth and all between them in six days, nor did any sense of weariness touch us." (Koran 50:38)

Also there is a contradiction about creation in the Koran, Creation took eight days according to Surah 41:9, 10, 12. But Surah 10:3 and Koran 50:38, states, creation took six days.

[edit on 11/22/2005 by Jehosephat]



posted on Nov, 22 2005 @ 10:19 AM
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Originally posted by Desert Fox
So what if the koran rejects jesus as divine. God is one and thats that. And also who do you think you are lieing against the koran, it does not say that god rested after he created the world in six days. Where you got that from i don't know. Where is your proof.


That's exactly what Jehoephat just said, why are you arguing when you're in agreement?



posted on Nov, 22 2005 @ 10:30 AM
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Stay on your path. Follow the teachings of Islam to their end, and things will begin to make more and more sense.


Originally posted by Desert Fox
1. Christians say Jesus is god, but how could he of been god if he worshipped god.

Because God (All , Ah!! when you Booo the Du) tends to see God's self as still part of everything. Jesus, and all enlightened "persons" knew this.


2. Also god is eternal and you claim that jesus dies where as god can't die.


Death concerns many aspects. The perception of Non existance of the conscioussness upon death is the subscribed belief of someone who does not believe in God.


3. Jesus was human and had human features. We all know that god is different than us humans in every way.


When God made humanity in God's image I think God knows humans are not different from God in EVERY WAY.


4. Jesus said to several tribes to worship god alone and he never once said he was god.


According to whom?


[edit on 22-11-2005 by Esoteric Teacher]



posted on Nov, 22 2005 @ 10:38 AM
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Originally posted by AkashicWanderer

What is Islam's take on meditation and contemplation?


A better way (perhaps more accurate way) to state the question is: What is your take on what you feel Islam's take on meditation and contemplation is.


What is Islam's take on reincarnation?


Again: What is your personal interpretation of what Islam's take is on reincarnation?

It seems to me we (people in general) sometimes tend to equate that a person following a certain path (faith/religion) speaks for their entire faith, when in fact they don't necessarily have all the insight of their subscribed faith. We are still asking a question, which is directed towards someone of a specific faith about their faith, but we seem to forget that even everyone of our own faith does not see everything as the same. My point is we are asking a mind to give us a perception of their faith from their perspective.



posted on Nov, 22 2005 @ 11:32 AM
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When Jesus was baptized in the river Jordon, he came straightway out of the water and the voice of God spoke from Heaven above saying that Jesus was His Son for whom He was well pleased and then a the Holy Spirit descended out of Heaven in the form of a dove.

There's been many arguments as to whether Jesus is God and so forth.

I believe that the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit are "One" in the sense that the shell, albumen and yolk is an egg.

Think about it, all three are different but yet one.



posted on Nov, 22 2005 @ 02:08 PM
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"We created the heavens and the earth and all between them in six days, nor did any sense of weariness touch us." (Koran 50:38)


Since that verse is in the Koran, look at the first and the last words- "WE" and "US"!!! Plurals!
Doesn't that imply that God is more than one, ie, the Trinity?



posted on Nov, 22 2005 @ 02:28 PM
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Originally posted by just me 2

Doesn't that imply that God is more than one, ie, the Trinity?


Elect Tri City or be Pro Pain!



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