Christianity is the AntiChrist Religion

I disagree that "God" is jealous. That characteristic is a Projection by and of the writer.

God's business is coding and ordering Creation; He is not needed in the Entropy and Chaos Department. It runs just fine without Him.

But, as to the EFFECT that Christianity serves--to malign knowledge in favor of mindless Faith--well--yes, such an attitude does bring on anti-Christ gullibility, out of complacency and preferences.

Maybe so.

Originally posted by joshai2334
I disagree that "God" is jealous. That characteristic is a Projection by and of the writer.

God's business is coding and ordering Creation; He is not needed in the Entropy and Chaos Department. It runs just fine without Him.

But, as to the EFFECT that Christianity serves--to malign knowledge in favor of mindless Faith--well--yes, such an attitude does bring on anti-Christ gullibility, out of complacency and preferences.

Maybe so.

Okay

1. Exodus 20:5
Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
Exodus 20:4-6 (in Context) Exodus 20 (Whole Chapter)
2. Exodus 34:14
For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is jealous, is a jealous God:
Exodus 34:13-15 (in Context) Exodus 34 (Whole Chapter)
3. Deuteronomy 4:24
For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.
Deuteronomy 4:23-25 (in Context) Deuteronomy 4 (Whole Chapter)
4. Deuteronomy 5:9
Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,
Deuteronomy 5:8-10 (in Context) Deuteronomy 5 (Whole Chapter)
5. Deuteronomy 6:15
(For the LORD thy God is a jealous God among you) lest the anger of the LORD thy God be kindled against thee, and destroy thee from off the face of the earth.
Deuteronomy 6:14-16 (in Context) Deuteronomy 6 (Whole Chapter)
6. Deuteronomy 32:16
They provoked him to jealousy with strange gods, with abominations provoked they him to anger.
Deuteronomy 32:15-17 (in Context) Deuteronomy 32 (Whole Chapter)
7. Deuteronomy 32:21
They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.
Deuteronomy 32:20-22 (in Context) Deuteronomy 32 (Whole Chapter)
8. Joshua 24:19
And Joshua said unto the people, Ye cannot serve the LORD: for he is an holy God; he is a jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins.
Joshua 24:18-20 (in Context) Joshua 24 (Whole Chapter)
9. 1 Kings 19:10
And he said, I have been very jealous for the LORD God of hosts: for the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away.
1 Kings 19:9-11 (in Context) 1 Kings 19 (Whole Chapter)
10. 1 Kings 19:14
And he said, I have been very jealous for the LORD God of hosts: because the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away.
1 Kings 19:13-15 (in Context) 1 Kings 19 (Whole Chapter)

I know Jesus said Himself that we have come to know the father through him.... that the only way to God was through Jesus, therefore meaning we have not known God until Jesus showed us the way to the true father... when you read a book you read the story as well as the facts in the story, and try to understand what the author was trying to portray or what the author was saying.. and that was the message, that Jesus came to save us, he has already come and saved us by showing us the true father and the way there... its up to you to listen to him, the book isn't even important after you obtain the message, the bible is just proof so you can Love your creator and not condemn him, because it shows what he had to learn to come to his understanding.

God left the bible to show what the UNbegotten son learnt through the begotten son..

[edit on 20/7/06 by dnero6911]

and actually God's business is coding and ordering Creation; He is not needed in the Entropy and Chaos Department. It runs just fine without Him.
God's only business in this whole mess has been allowing everyone whose made a mistake, correct it. His only business has been Love.. he has been sitting idle, reposed he supplied the holy spirit and allowed everything else to work itself out, he is truly eneffable.

[edit on 20/7/06 by dnero6911]

But do you know what the real 'conspiracy' is?

Do you want to know *who* the bible conspiracy (aliens being the so called 'beast') is against?

I'll give you a hint.

1985-1986 - When I was in Elkhart, IA....

A smart honest kid who could write cursive before he even went to kindergarten....

Asleep in his bed, woken up by 'alien' telepathy giving him a vision of a laughing skull.

That would be me people.

And the next 20 years of my life would be hell, and somewhat still now, it is, but it's getting better because I'm starting to prove it.

My name:

James Bernard Schumacher III
Birthdate: 10/09/1980

[edit on 25-7-2006 by JamesSchumacher]

Originally posted by saint4God
Perhaps they didn't flatter themselves (perhaps some did), but the world does exist for mankind's purpose:

"Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

"God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."

"Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food." And it was so." Genesis 1:26, 28-30

This doesn't imply that the world is for our purposes - the man of 'red earth', or, 'the man of blood', was made steward over the world. The inheritance of the world goes to those born of water and blood. God owns the estate - it is according to His will and purposes, not man's. Man has not kept his stewardship in good faith - this is a charge that will be laid to someone's head - as is written in Revelation:

And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
~Revelation 11:18

I don't recall at any point God giving the Hebrews a calendar nor marking a specific year in our timeline. Perhaps you have more insight? Something I've overlooked?

The Book of Enoch--not typically esteemed by traditional christianity, although it is more than validated by the discoveries in Qumran - if Isaiah is valid, then certainly Enoch is as well.

There's a saying in the OAHSPE Bible, "Atheists are useful because they keep spiritual people honest." It's somewhere in there; I read it.

www.insider-magazine.com...

www.waynemadsenreport.com is a site that deals with politics, religion, ideology, praxis, everything. Wayne himself is agnostic, but oh how he is revolted by what he has seen occurring in the Evangelical wing of the church, politically, as they have embraced Montauk psych-ops, "Dominionism" and the ethics of Leo Strauss.

I hope you have a strong stomach.

Originally posted by queenannie38
This doesn't imply that the world is for our purposes - the man of 'red earth', or, 'the man of blood', was made steward over the world. The inheritance of the world goes to those born of water and blood.

Good stewardship is a Biblical principle that needs to be adhered to. Not sure what else you mean here.

Originally posted by queenannie38
God owns the estate - it is according to His will and purposes, not man's.

Ultimately all things are for the glory of God. I think we're in the same ballpark here.

Originally posted by queenannie38
Man has not kept his stewardship in good faith - this is a charge that will be laid to someone's head - as is written in Revelation:

And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
~Revelation 11:18

Yes, there is a distinction between those for God and those against, who are poor stewards that destroy the earth.

Originally posted by queenannie38
The Book of Enoch--not typically esteemed by traditional christianity, although it is more than validated by the discoveries in Qumran - if Isaiah is valid, then certainly Enoch is as well.

How so?

Originally posted by joshai2334
There's a saying in the OAHSPE Bible, "Atheists are useful because they keep spiritual people honest."

This may be true IF Christians were not accountable to the holy God. Or, if they were not able to know when they sin. Or, if there were no Hell, Satan, punishment, etc. Hopefully you see where I'm going here. It's like saying, "It's a good thing there are criminals else there'd be no law-abiding citizens!" Silly really. A statement like that sounds like the self-justification header on a criminal recruiting video, "Be a criminal! Do good by doing wrong! Keep the police employed and feeding their families!" Meh

Originally posted by joshai2334
It's somewhere in there; I read it.

www.insider-magazine.com...

www.waynemadsenreport.com is a site that deals with politics, religion, ideology, praxis, everything. Wayne himself is agnostic, but oh how he is revolted by what he has seen occurring in the Evangelical wing of the church, politically, as they have embraced Montauk psych-ops, "Dominionism" and the ethics of Leo Strauss.

I hope you have a strong stomach.

More conspiracy theory, who would'a thunk? Don't think anyone here is of weak stomach. I also think people like scare tactics and half-cocked sinister plans to get others to sit up in their seat. Hehe, psych-ops. Next please...

[edit on 26-7-2006 by saint4God]

I thinkthat everyone is overlooking something of major importance. The 'Bible", in the form which most of us have it, is Not in it's original condition. The topic of this forum grasped me becuase it's exactly what I've been studying for 15 years now. To state briefly, it is my belief that the one that u call Lucifer,Satan & the devil long ago took control of the True Faith & has made changes,subtle & not so subtle, to the scripture for the purpose of leading mankind into unknowingly worshiping hisself. There are many proofs of this that I would be glad to post if anyone is interested.

Originally posted by JamesSchumacher
But do you know what the real 'conspiracy' is?

Do you want to know *who* the bible conspiracy (aliens being the so called 'beast') is against?

I'll give you a hint.

1985-1986 - When I was in Elkhart, IA....

A smart honest kid who could write cursive before he even went to kindergarten....

Asleep in his bed, woken up by 'alien' telepathy giving him a vision of a laughing skull.

That would be me people.

And the next 20 years of my life would be hell, and somewhat still now, it is, but it's getting better because I'm starting to prove it.

My name:

James Bernard Schumacher III
Birthdate: 10/09/1980

I'm not sure I understand. How is there a Biblical conspiracy against you? What's the relationship between writing cursive and the laughing skull with the Bible? How did your life get harder? What are you starting to prove?

Originally posted by omniescient
I thinkthat everyone is overlooking something of major importance. The 'Bible", in the form which most of us have it, is Not in it's original condition. The topic of this forum grasped me becuase it's exactly what I've been studying for 15 years now. To state briefly, it is my belief that the one that u call Lucifer,Satan & the devil long ago took control of the True Faith & has made changes,subtle & not so subtle, to the scripture for the purpose of leading mankind into unknowingly worshiping hisself. There are many proofs of this that I would be glad to post if anyone is interested.

Sure, let's see it. This isn't much of a case put forward here for 15 years of study. Or, do you expect people to blindly follow what you're saying.

[edit on 31-7-2006 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God
Sure, let's see it. This isn't much of a case put forward here for 15 years of study. Or, do you expect people to blindly follow what you're saying.

[edit on 31-7-2006 by saint4God]

I'll second that motion, I'd love to see it too!

Out of curiosity, though, what are the criteria for your "proofs"?

There are certain instructions that the Creator gave us for the specific purpose of allowing His followers to know & signify that they follow the True Creator of all things. These indicators include:
*The Seal of The Creator. (which is the Sabbath)
*Ezek 20:12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.
*Ezek 20:20 And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I am the LORD your God.
*Exo 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
*Exo 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
*Exo 31:17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
So the sabbath is a sign of God, or His seal, representing His authority as Creator. Now look at the 4th Commandment as found in Exodus.
*Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
*Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
*Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
*Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
*The Name Of The Creator.
*Deuteronomy 18:5-AV For Yahweh thy Elohim hath chosen him out of all thy tribes, to stand to minister in the name of Yahweh, him and his sons for ever.
*Deuteronomy 28:10-AV And all the people of the earth shall see that thou art called by the name of Yahweh; and they shall be afraid of thee.
*2Chronicles 7:14-AV If my people, who are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. [which...: Heb. upon whom my name is called]
*Ezra 5:1-AV Then the prophets, Haggai the prophet, and Zechariah the son of Iddo, prophesied to the Jews that [were] in Judah and Jerusalem in the name of the Elohim of Israel, [even] to them.
*Psalms 61:5-AV For thou, O Elohim, hast heard my vows: thou hast given [me] the heritage of those that fear thy name.
*Psalms 118:26-AV Blessed [be] he that cometh in the name of the Yahweh: we have blessed you out of the house of Yahweh.
*Isaiah 43:6-AV I will say to the north, Give up; and to the south, Keep not back: bring my sons from far, and my daughters from the ends of the earth;
*Isaiah 43:7-AV [Even] every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; verily, I have made him.
*Isaiah 52:6-AV Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore [they shall know] in that day that I [am] he that doth speak: behold, [it is] I.
*Micah 4:5-AV For all people will walk every one in the name of his elohim, and we will walk in the name of Yahweh our Elohim for ever and ever.
*Micah 5:4-AV And he shall stand and feed in the strength of the Yahweh, in the majesty of the name of Yahweh his Elohim; and they shall abide: for now shall he be great to the ends of the earth. [feed or, rule]

to be continued on another post

...continued...

*The Name Of The Begotten Son.
*Colossians 3:17-AV And whatever ye do in word or deed, [do] all in the name of the Master Yahushua, giving thanks to Elohim and the Father by him.
*Acts 9:15-AV But the Master said to him, Go: for he is a chosen vessel to me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
*John 14:13-AV And whatever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
*John 16:23-AV And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say to you, Whatever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give [it] you.
*John 16:24-AV Until now ye have asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.
*John 16:26-AV At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not to you, that I will pray the Father for you:
Acts 4:12-AV Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is no other name under heaven given among men, by which we must be saved.


These three critical things (Seal & Name of the Creator, Name of the Son) have been subsituted in the Christian religion. Not JUST substituted, but, subtituted with things of satanic origins.
*The Sunday (or Sun Day) Sabbath.
The True Sabbath is from sundown Friday-sundown Saturday. The Seventh Day.
Sunday is the first day of the week.
From prehistoric times to the close of the fifth century of the Christian era, the worship of the sun was dominant.
Sunday celebrates the sun god, Ra, Helios, Apollo, Ogmios, Mithrias, the sun goddess, Phoebe.
The metal gold, as dedicated in the symbols of alchemy, is associated with the sun god and Sunday.
In the year 321, Constantine the Great ruled that the first day of the week, 'the venerable day of the sun', should be a day of rest. The sun's old association with the first day is responsible for the fact that the Lord's Day of Christianity bears the pagan name of Sunday. (google it, research, you'll find that this is fact)
"God"

*Gad is a Syrian or Canaanite deity of good luck or fortune. In Hebrew, it is written GD, but with Massoretic vowel-pointing, it is "Gad." Other Scriptural references to a similar deity, also written GD, have a vowel-pointing giving us "Gawd" or "God." Gad, or Gawd is identified with Jupiter, the Sky-deity or the Sun-deity.
*In the Greek, the word God is a translation of the word "Theos" meaning Mighty One. This can refer to any person, man or in some cases non-man. The context determines the meaning. Assuming the word always refers to a non-man is error, as the Greek referred to many with authority as "Theos" (Mighty One).
*The word "God (or god)" is a title, translating the Hebrew Elohim (or elohim), El (or el), and Eloah, meaning strength, powerful one(s). However, it is often incorrectly used as a substitute for the Tetragrammaton (YHVH). YAHWEH, or the more accurate YAHUWEH pronounced YAH-OO-AY. Yahweh is the proper personal name of the Creator. Where Elohim is the Hebrew word with the English meaning of "Mighty One(s)" the Greek word with the English meaning of Mighty One is "Theos." Neither word can be directly related or assumed to be equal to the name Yahweh, the Almighty Creator, because this would be error. See the "word" God
*According to Encyclopedia Britannica, GOD is the common Teutonic word for a personal object of religious worship, applied to all the superhuman beings of the heathen mythologies, and various kinds of idols. The word "god" on the conversion of the Teutonic races to Christianity was adopted as the name of the One Supreme Being, but this is error. The correct personal proper name of the One Supreme Being is Yahweh. Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics and Webster's Twentieth Century Dictionary, Unabridged agree that the origin of the word God, is Teutonic paganism.

continued on another post...

I was really hoping there would be something different than what was already discussed and addressed on the other threads that exist here. Jungle Jake is more willing to repeat and respond to each one of these more than I am (and in no way am asking him to do so)...because the answers are already here:

Interesting information on the "Christianity is a copy of Pagan Myths" Theory

The Sabbath

The 13th Apostle, a Sun God, and a Messiah

Errors in Christianity/Christians

The Paganism of Christianity

'Christian Hypocrite' Conspiracy

Alrighty mods, add this thread to the pile. I'm suprised with the "duplicate thread" rule, so many of the same are permitted to exist.

My recommendation is before spending another 15 years more on independant research, to take a few weeks to research here on ATS what the arguments are and the responses to them...then, specifically addressing what the opposition raises as valid points.

[edit on 1-8-2006 by saint4God]

True, I havent reviewed much on this site as I just recently became aware & joined. I also wasn't nearly finshed stating my thoughts, realizing that there's just too much to say. But I would like to say this:
I just dont understand how a Christian can justify a Sunday Sabbath & celebrate these modern Christian holidays (whether they are rooted in paganism or not). Didn't Yahweh appoint specific days & festivals that His people are to follow? Why not just hold to THEM? It seems like such a careless gamble for Christians to accept any man-made change(s) or modification(s) in instuctions that were given to you by Yahweh. And how risky is it to assume that Yahweh won't count you guilty for it on the grounds that you had good intentions? A disobedient child with good intentions is still a disobedient child. It's just difficult for me to understand how Christians seem to just overlook/ignore so many inconsistencies. I believe in Yahweh & His Word, but I also believe that these alteration are devices being used to 'decieve many of the elect'. Is it not possible that it is by His will that these 'issues' are now being revealed to us? In Revelations, when a Voice says "come out of her, my people", isn't that an indication that His people would be 'within' something detestable to Him? Bottom line, I just feel that it's a blessing that the truths about many things regarding the Word are so accessable to us now. Christians,although they come across this knowledge themselves, just seem to be stuck in their ways. Even when they find out their ways may have been wrong.

In a world deemed too religious, we do have to assume, as in the case with David Koresh, that certain fundamental ideas will be formulated in accordance with the Holy Bible. A brilliant work of art no matter which way you put it, Heaven only knows just how immensely valuable the Bible's many off-shoots there are i.e. not just the Roman Catholic Church. Highly organized and definitely fun to read, or at least I like to think so, it is by all accounts highly recommended. Power is power as such, I simply wouldn't doubt it as Christians always were equiped with the power to surprise in a very strategic sort of way to which continues to make America great.

Originally posted by omniescient
True, I havent reviewed much on this site as I just recently became aware & joined. I also wasn't nearly finshed stating my thoughts, realizing that there's just too much to say.

No worries and didn't mean to come down on you harsh at all. I can say repetition is pretty common on ATS and wondering if we all can come up with a creative solution towards maintaining progression.

Originally posted by omniescient
But I would like to say this:
I just dont understand how a Christian can justify a Sunday Sabbath

See Sabbath thread. In summary:

"Another time he (Jesus) went into the synagogue, and a man with a shriveled hand was there. Some of them were looking for a reason to accuse Jesus, so they watched him closely to see if he would heal him on the Sabbath. Jesus said to the man with the shriveled hand, "Stand up in front of everyone."

Then Jesus asked them, "Which is lawful on the Sabbath: to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill?" But they remained silent. - Mark 3:1-4

Originally posted by omniescient
& celebrate these modern Christian holidays (whether they are rooted in paganism or not).

There are a dime a dozen of these threads, take your pick. If I'm not on them, I'd be glad to come over. Just let me know which one. A lot of this has to do with the history of evangelism (which is not a swear word, but some people including some tv evangelists can make it so). If I recall correctly, the Roman Chatholic Church practised integration of regional cultures to facilitate Biblical understandings. I disagree with this practice because of this reprocussion, though the argument can be made that many have come to know God through these kinds of parallel analogies.

I agree Christian holidays should not have anything to do with paganism, and practice to remove any pagan symbols, practices, and rites that are associated with them. This means though that I do celebrate the birth and resurrection of Christ. I'm still scrutinizing these holydays closely (holiday comes from "holy day").

Originally posted by omniescient
Didn't Yahweh appoint specific days & festivals that His people are to follow?

Christ was a practicing Jew, who did introduce the Last Supper/Resurrection as holy events. Paul sums this answer up nicely:

"So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God." - Corinthians 10:31

There are other references too, that say do not worry about these things so long as we're doing it for Yahweh, according to His goodness, His love, and His righteousness.

Originally posted by omniescient
Why not just hold to THEM?

For a Christian, is the festival of lights a more glorious than the promise of eternal life? I agree that Christians should dig into their heritage more, and perhaps make use of these celebrations to remember. Having a solar calendar instead of lunar can complicate things, but I know of some Messianic Jewish friends whom I could learn a lot from in this regard.

Originally posted by omniescient
It seems like such a careless gamble for Christians to accept any man-made change(s) or modification(s) in instuctions that were given to you by Yahweh.

I agree we should be careful to remain in His Light and not get wrapped up in candy, costumes, clovers, alcohol, and other things making them our god. Clearly that breaks the laws and intentions for our hearts.

Originally posted by omniescient
And how risky is it to assume that Yahweh won't count you guilty for it on the grounds that you had good intentions?

No one is guiltless:

"This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus." - Roman 3:22-24

If a person is gambling on being perfect to get into heaven, they're in for a nasty surprise. I absolutely agree that we should be discerning and careful in the things we do, being sure that they honour God.

Originally posted by omniescient
A disobedient child with good intentions is still a disobedient child.

I agree we should take care, but again, there is no "perfect child" except One.

Originally posted by omniescient
It's just difficult for me to understand how Christians seem to just overlook/ignore so many inconsistencies.

Lack of a yearning for the truth? Selfishness? These are all things we can all accuse each other for, though not only in this instance but in many others. But, that's what we're here to discuss. Let both sides represent and the jury decide...but we should be cautious not to be hasty and judge one another.

Originally posted by omniescient
I believe in Yahweh & His Word,

Excellent, as do I. I think we've got a firm foundation from which to work then.

Originally posted by omniescient
but I also believe that these alteration are devices being used to 'decieve many of the elect'.

I agree that any alterations are devices to decieve. Furthermore, I appreciate your compassion and concern for others.

Originally posted by omniescient
Is it not possible that it is by His will that these 'issues' are now being revealed to us?

Certainly. I believe that you and me are supposed to be here having this discussion right now. If you try to figure out the probability of it being "chance" or "luck"(which is a part of a different religion entirely), the numbers would be staggering. Many times, when two reasonable people discuss things, something is learned by one, the other or even both. I think that's an important part of our mission --> spiritual growth.

Originally posted by omniescient
In Revelations, when a Voice says "come out of her, my people", isn't that an indication that His people would be 'within' something detestable to Him?

Ya, that's what I gather.

Originally posted by omniescient
Bottom line, I just feel that it's a blessing that the truths about many things regarding the Word are so accessable to us now. Christians,although they come across this knowledge themselves, just seem to be stuck in their ways. Even when they find out their ways may have been wrong.

This isn't a problem soley for Christians...this is a problem with manking. But! It is easy to see this problem in Christians because they are supposed to be adherents to God's truth. An athiest or agnostic is not bound by any fixed moral law, but a Christian should have it in their hands in black and white print. A Wiccan can "do as thou will", but a Christian has to do what is righteous in the sight of God. Any idea how difficult that can be to do all the time? They're high standards for any human to try to reach up to...nevertheless we must try.

I'm totally enjoying this conversation now. I'm feeling like I'm talking to you instead of someone else's notes. We all like to think we're original in thought, but these same questions and issues you're asking were also asked and addressed two thousand years ago (sometimes older) as well, not just on other ATS threads.

Originally posted by omniescient
But I would like to say this:
I just dont understand how a Christian can justify a Sunday Sabbath

Originally posted by saint4God
See Sabbath thread. In summary:

That's no justification for forsaking God's decrees! See bible:
Exodus 31:12-18

Note the words ‘perpetual,’ ‘forever,’ etc…

Originally posted by saint4God
This means though that I do celebrate the birth and resurrection of Christ. I'm still scrutinizing these holydays closely (holiday comes from "holy day").

Originally posted by omniescient
Didn't Yahweh appoint specific days & festivals that His people are to follow?

See Leviticus chapter 23, Saint4God--there are 3 obligatory feasts each year. These have not been nullified, nor will they be:

Zechariah 14:16-21

Notice the phrase ‘in that day.’ Zechariah’s prophesy stands yet to be fulfilled.

Originally posted by saint4God
Christ was a practicing Jew, who did introduce the Last Supper/Resurrection as holy events.

Christ did not 'introduce' the 'last supper'--he was observing Passover--as directed at the time of the Exodus.

Exodus 12:11-17

Notice, again, the words ‘forever,’ and ‘perpetual generations.’

There are other references too, that say do not worry about these things so long as we're doing it for Yahweh, according to His goodness, His love, and His righteousness.

Not properly understood, though--for God never contradicts Himself or says 'I once said this is an ordinance forever, but I really didn't mean it--forget it.'
Neither did Yehoshua nullify any of it:

Matthew 5:17-19

All is not fulfilled, yet!

Originally posted by omniescient
It seems like such a careless gamble for Christians to accept any man-made change(s) or modification(s) in instuctions that were given to you by Yahweh.

Well said, my friend! As is much of what you say!

Originally posted by saint4God
No one is guiltless:

"This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus." - Roman 3:22-24

No one WAS guiltless—however:

Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Romans 4:8

Originally posted by saint4God
I absolutely agree that we should be discerning and careful in the things we do, being sure that they honor God.

Obeying God’s ordinances honors God.

Originally posted by saint4God
I agree we should take care, but again, there is no "perfect child" except One.

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Matthew 5:48

Originally posted by omniescient
Is it not possible that it is by His will that these 'issues' are now being revealed to us?

Not only possible, but certain!

Originally posted by omniescient
Bottom line, I just feel that it's a blessing that the truths about many things regarding the Word are so accessible to us now. Christians, although they come across this knowledge themselves, just seem to be stuck in their ways. Even when they find out their ways may have been wrong.

In the mean time, when there were gathered together an innumerable multitude of people, insomuch that they trode one upon another, he began to say unto his disciples first of all, Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy. For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known. Therefore whatsoever ye have spoken in darkness shall be heard in the light; and that which ye have spoken in the ear in closets shall be proclaimed upon the housetops.
Luke 12:1-3

In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.
Luke 10:21

Originally posted by queenannie38
That's no justification for forsaking God's decrees! See bible:
Exodus 31:12-18

I keep to the sabbath, I do not work on that day. But, the point I was making is observing the law should not prevent someone from doing good, as Christ demonstrated. There is in fact a heart behind the law. The proof is here:

Mark 2:26-27
"In the days of Abiathar the high priest, he entered the house of God and ate the consecrated bread, which is lawful only for priests to eat. And he also gave some to his companions."

Then he said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath."

Originally posted by queenannie38
See Leviticus chapter 23, Saint4God--there are 3 obligatory feasts each year. These have not been nullified, nor will they be:

Do you do this queenannie?

"'When you enter the land I am going to give you and you reap its harvest, bring to the priest a sheaf of the first grain you harvest. He is to wave the sheaf before the LORD so it will be accepted on your behalf; the priest is to wave it on the day after the Sabbath. On the day you wave the sheaf, you must sacrifice as a burnt offering to the LORD a lamb a year old without defect"

and this?

"From wherever you live, bring two loaves made of two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour, baked with yeast, as a wave offering of firstfruits to the LORD. Present with this bread seven male lambs, each a year old and without defect, one young bull and two rams. They will be a burnt offering to the LORD, together with their grain offerings and drink offerings—an offering made by fire, an aroma pleasing to the LORD. Then sacrifice one male goat for a sin offering and two lambs, each a year old, for a fellowship offering"

Originally posted by queenannie38
Christ did not 'introduce' the 'last supper'--he was observing Passover--as directed at the time of the Exodus.

"And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me." Luke 22:19

Originally posted by queenannie38
Not properly understood, though--for God never contradicts Himself or says 'I once said this is an ordinance forever, but I really didn't mean it--forget it.'
Neither did Yehoshua nullify any of it:

No, he doesn't contradict Himself, and we'll get to this after after you've answered my questions.

[edit on 2-8-2006 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God
Do you do this queenannie?

"'When you
(..)
without defect"

and this?

"From wherever
(..)
fellowship offering"

The offerings have been made--we have a High Priest now who took care of those types of things. However, I made no mention of sacrifices and oblations, although I do give personal offering unto the LORD--since I have no crops they are of a different nature. I was speaking of feasts, though--the three feasts of the year.

And yes, I do keep them.

"And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me." Luke 22:19

Right--but it wasn't new--it was PASSOVER. The LORD's passover.

And he said, Go into the city to such a man, and say unto him, The Master saith, My time is at hand; I will keep the passover at thy house with my disciples. And the disciples did as Jesus had appointed them; and they made ready the passover. Now when the even was come, he sat down with the twelve.
Matthew 26:18-20

And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him. And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer: For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God. And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves: For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come. And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
Luke 22:14-20