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Was 9/11 conducted by the United States Government and Israel?

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posted on Nov, 18 2005 @ 09:50 AM
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I was surfing the internet today, as I tend to and began to read up a bit more on 9/11 when I came across these two interviews.

It is an interview of Dr. Morgan Reynolds and Eric Hufschmid, by Daryl Bradford Smith. Dr. Morgan Reynolds a former members of the Bush Cabinet in the Labour Department.

They put fourth a good case, one that brings up many questions in my mind however I am still not sure what to make of it. What to you guys think?

Edit:

It is two hours long, rather 'Anti-Zionism' trend, but it is really interesting. [Not Anti-Jewish.]

[edit on 18/11/2005 by Odium]




posted on Nov, 18 2005 @ 10:01 AM
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I've heard some of the French connection show in the past, but not this show, I'm still listening so I'll comment on the show after I've heard it.
I just want to make sure that we(you) make it clear that we are not talking about Jews, or Israelis, but ZIONIST'S. There is a tactic that many of these people that claim anti-Semitism at the mention of 'Israel' or 'Jewish' conspiracies.

I know he qualifies it in the show but your thread title should, I think, say Zioniest's not Isreal. Yes all Zionist's are Jewish, but not all Jews are Zionist.


[edit on 18-11-2005 by Halfofone]



posted on Nov, 18 2005 @ 10:10 AM
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there was no conspiracy, get it through your heads folks. Just another shocking event in human history, isnt the first, wont be the last, there was NO CONSPIRACY!!!!!



posted on Nov, 18 2005 @ 10:13 AM
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ludaChris, evidence for that please.

Halfofone, the reason I use 'Israel' is because that is the 'Zionist State'. In fact it is one of the key parts of Zionism and the show speaks of Mossad which of course is part of the Israeli Government.



posted on Nov, 18 2005 @ 10:14 AM
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Well, I cannot think of a better way to inflame Americans against Islam, and Saddam, GWB's pain in the side ever since he(Saddam) tried to kill his daddy. I have seen the evidence, but who can one trust anymore? I have read that the planes were remote controlled, had missile pods on them, and seen photos of these. Check out this site:
thewebfairy.com...
How are we going to prove it even if we do know what happened? These people are adept at covering up things, this is easy for them now....if anyone gets too close to the truth, just enact the ol' Patriot Act, and arrest them as "enemy combatants."
So they did it...what is to be done? Just asking, Magickman



posted on Nov, 18 2005 @ 10:24 AM
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Originally posted by Magickman
Well, I cannot think of a better way to inflame Americans against Islam, and Saddam, GWB's pain in the side ever since he(Saddam) tried to kill his daddy. I have seen the evidence, but who can one trust anymore? I have read that the planes were remote controlled, had missile pods on them,


the problem with the WTC conspiracy is that all the theorists have completely different opinions on what happened.

Bush planned it after his attempt in 93 failed.
Silverstein did it via controlled explosion
Bush did it with remotely controlled planes.
Israel did it
etc.
etc.
etc.

some terrorists did it.
in the name of their god.


or you can combine the various theories on the web into one cohesive theory. Bush failed in 93 so he met with some aliens who conspired with the zionists to set explosives to bring down the buildings. Silverstein funded the plan with remote controlled airplanes and they put missles on them to "git er done" and then Bush and the zionists flew to planet 9 and blew those babies up.



posted on Nov, 18 2005 @ 10:25 AM
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Originally posted by ludaChris
there was no conspiracy, get it through your heads folks. Just another shocking event in human history, isnt the first, wont be the last, there was NO CONSPIRACY!!!!!


Ok then, go put your headphones back on, listen to your crap rap, and spend your money on wrestling and football, delete your ATS account and buzz off. If you have nothing to contribute to a discussion, then take your blue pill, and continue to be blissfully ignorant.



posted on Nov, 18 2005 @ 10:31 AM
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Crakeur, isn't that a good thing though?

To find out the truth you need all of the evidence placed in front of you, then you allow for every theory to be put forward and allow them all to be tried and tested. The problem is that the U.S. Government has kept a lot back - blueprints of the buildings for example have never been placed for the public to use and this doesn't help their story.

Even the NIST report was given them, however they do not put them in the study and just point to having them. The videos do not show half-of-what the Government claims, so there are some lies to it. You then have to evaluate who has the most motive to do this and who will gain the most.

It is clear that Bin Laden hasen't gained much from this... [Iraq war is a different issue.]



posted on Nov, 18 2005 @ 10:44 AM
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odium, the point I was trying to make was that, with so many completely different concepts, it sort of negates them all.

I've heard so many theories on Bush and Rummy and Cheney plotting this thing the minute they failed in 93. (that a guy who can't chew pretzels and is constantly being accused of being stupid was involved in the planning is probably the dumbest thing I've ever heard)

I've heard so many variations on it being Silversteins controlled explosions (wtc 7 falling adds to his eing the main culprit)

The Israeli one has that false story of all the jews getting out on 9/11 feeding it but has been mostly debunked

The alien one I made up.

Remote control planes hitting with the actual planes being taken to another location? nonsense
planes with missiles on them? ok, so where does that leave all the controlled demolition proponents?

if all of the many theories hadat least one common thread, other than "the buildings came down" I'd be more likely to believe it.

maybe also it helps that I live in NYC, lost friends in the towers, have friends who are cops and firemen and got a lot of first hand information to confirm or deny news in the days that followed the collapses.



posted on Nov, 18 2005 @ 12:56 PM
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@ ludaCHRIS.....how can their be NO CONSPIRACY!!!!!?? when NORAD stepped down?



posted on Nov, 18 2005 @ 01:07 PM
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Diabolic 888:

GIve us some NORAD stepping down links por favor: I would be VERY interested in seeing what they have to say...

Combine this fact (if it is fact) with the 5 High-Fiving Laughing and Picture Taking Israeli Mossad Agents from atop a tall building over the river in NJ an HOUR BEFORE the 9-11 attacks (these goons were later arrested by the US and flown secretly to Israel, with their FILES MARKED TOP SECRET), and we might be on to something international in scope in terms of a controlled 9-11 attack to make the Arab world suddenly "the enemy" ...

It certainly is worth a HARD LOOK at any evidence you can muster...



posted on Nov, 18 2005 @ 01:26 PM
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Jim Marrs has some interesting things to say in his book along those lines. He indicated that there were many Israeli agents in America at the time and several were listed as students. Many attempted to get in government facilities as if casing them.

Also clearly the PNAC is composed of several Jews and Jewish sympathizers and it's their belief that a strong Israel aids our cause in the Middle East. Our cause in the Middle East appears to be control the oil. Other threads I believe have clearly pointed our that we are building several permanent military bases in Iraq. We are of course amping up the rhetoric about Iran also.(oil)

It does in fact seem that Israel would be quite happy with our presence in the Middle East. I'm sure it takes a lot of pressure off them.



posted on Nov, 18 2005 @ 01:35 PM
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Interesting blog note on this:
[quiote]In other words, we're talking about a conspiracy on an almost unimaginable scale, involving President Bush and his cabinet, the State and Defence Departments, the CIA, FBI, FEMA, INS and FAA, the Israelis, the owners, managers and tenants at the World Trade Center, United and American Airlines, the City of New York, the NYPD and FDNY, all the major TV networks and newspapers, the stock markets and thousands upon thousands of eyewitnesses - but one of the Bush Administration's top bureaucrats, who presumably dealt with dozens if not hundreds of other top government officials and employees before 9/11, was kept completely in the dark.
Damn, these guys are good.

Update: ohmigod ohmigod ohmigod!!! The library at Texas A&M is named after George H.W. Bush!

Connect the dots, people!
Come on, that update bit is darned funny ya gotta admit!

From there, here

Any statements made by Dr. Reynolds are in his capacity as a private citizen and do not represent the views of Texas A&M University. Below is a statement released yesterday by Dr. Robert M. Gates, President of Texas A&M University:
"The American people know what they saw with their own eyes on September 11, 2001. To suggest any kind of government conspiracy in the events of that day goes beyond the pale.”
(italics added)



Anyway, what from the audio is the most convincing argument?



posted on Nov, 18 2005 @ 02:34 PM
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was it actually true that there were no israelis/Jews in the twin towers on 9/11?



posted on Nov, 18 2005 @ 02:58 PM
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I think the reason there is so much scepticism about 9/11 is that there has never been any cogent explanation of anything by the government. There are several key questions that have not been answered and actually the whole event has been clothed in secrecy and denial.

The government could have headed off much of the debate if they had just presented the evidence. For example they seized two video tapes from a gas station and motel near the pentagon 1/2 hour after the explosion. A how did they have the foresight to respond so quickly and B
show the tape if it was a plane end of story. Millions of dollars was made on the stock market that day. Somebody or group knew enough to invest in put options on American Airlines and United. They made millions and they have never been revealed, they had to know something. The fact that the CIA was watching Mohammad Atta before 9/11. AKA Able Danger why hasn't the CIA and pentagon fully cooperated with an investigation to clear their good names. The PNAC drew up the noecon manifesto prior to the election of 2000 but they stated then that the American public would not go along with their suggestion of pre-emptive war. That is unless a event like "a new pearl harbor" happened. Who benefitted from 9/11? I know the vast majority of Americans did not but Halliburten, Bechtel, Lockheed-Martin and the Oil cartels certainly did.( Do you remember the Military-Industrial complex) The cover story the next day was phenominal . the government could not protect us from the hijackings but within hours they knew exactly who they were. Actually 6 of the alledged hijackers were alive and well in the Middle East and were surprized to hear of their exploits. There are many other anomilies that suggests strongly that the truth has not been found.

Two good books are "The New Pearl Harbor" David Ray Griffen &
9/11 Coverup by Jim Marrs

In court their is a way to get a conviction without a weapon with finger prints on it and that is to get a preponderance of evidence. So much circumstantial evidence that no other conclusion could be made. I believe this is true of 9/11. The government has offered no compelling evidence what-so-ever to support their supposition, I quess we're just supposed to TRUST them.
My scepticism is compounded by having lived through, The Warren Report, Watergate, the Iran-Contra Affair and the quagmire of Vietnam and now Iraq.



posted on Nov, 18 2005 @ 03:02 PM
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There was no need for a lot of people to be involved in the 9/11 conspiracy (if there was one). Most probably Bush is not in it: since the conspirators new that Bush is not the brightest person, they thought there was no need for him to be involved. Knowing the character of Bush, these people considered Bush an easy target that would probably do a lot for their cause without being part of it.

The most probable explanation about the coup is that the Mossad, the MI6 and the CIA infiltrated the lower levels of Al Qaeda, organized the attack and brainwashed Muslims into it. These agencies managed to fill the Twin Towers and the WTC 7 building with explosives. The WTC 7 was the backup plan, in case a plane did not manage to strike the WTC towers...but they finally had to pull it, in case someone discovered the explosives.

Bush wasn't in it, nor Cheney. Gulliani wasn't into this, nor FEMA, nor the police, nor the firefighters. It was the CIA, the Mossad, the MI6 and a few agents of them that have infiltrated the US Army in order to be able to have a big military exercise in 9/11 in order to avoid the commercial airlines be scrambled by the US airforce.

The biggest terrorist attack of all times is 10 times bigger (in number of casualties) than any other terrorist attack recorded in history, 100 times bigger in significance and 1000 times closer to the US than any other terrorist attack. It simply was too great an attack to have been organized by Muslims alone. If one considers all the other terrorist attacks, they pale in comparison to 9/11...and if coupled with all the right-wing voices about "an extreme catastrophe uniting the west against the Muslims" heard before 2001, one can easily see that 9/11 was the spark to ignite the world for the WWIII.



posted on Nov, 18 2005 @ 03:06 PM
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I refuse to believe that our government would subject over 3000 civilians to a death such as this. Why is so hard to believe that sometimes things are exactly as they appear. The death of all of these innocents and destruction of a financially important locale profited no one(Except the terrorists who saw this as the first victory of this war). I understand that everyone has their opinions and suspicions, but not everything is a conspiracy and it goes against common sense to believe that this has anything to do with a conspiracy.

Oh and the post about the Israeli agents possibly casing US Agencies, there is a saying in the intelligence community. "There are no such thing as allies, just common interests." I quote my professor who well call Bernie, worked in Intelligence in over 60 countries for the DSS(Diplomatic Security Service) I will have to get some of the material he showed to our Terrorism class. The evidence I need is there and I will have it for you on the 22nd, which is this coming Tuesday.
[edit on 11/18/2005 by ludaChris]

[edit on 11/18/2005 by ludaChris]



posted on Nov, 18 2005 @ 03:18 PM
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Originally posted by sal88
was it actually true that there were no israelis/Jews in the twin towers on 9/11?


absolutely false.

I can name a few friends and relatives that were there. some lived, some died.

all jews.



posted on Nov, 18 2005 @ 03:44 PM
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Originally posted by ludaChris
I refuse to believe that our government would subject over 3000 civilians to a death such as this.


Why? They have killed hundreds of thousands of people. 18,000 people in the U.S. die per-year because they can’t afford medical insurance. We can look at the thousands if not hundreds of thousands of Civil Deaths world over by the United States to display they do harm civilians and know about it.


Originally posted by ludaChris
Why is so hard to believe that sometimes things are exactly as they appear. The death of all of these innocents and destruction of a financially important locale profited no one(Except the terrorists who saw this as the first victory of this war).


And the people who got to rebuild it, Afghanistan and so on and so fourth. In fact terrorism was harmed by 9/11 and the invasion of Afghanistan it only began to develop into such an overwhelming force after the invasion of Iraq which can be seen by the statistics on attacks per-year.


Originally posted by ludaChris
I understand that everyone has their opinions and suspicions, but not everything is a conspiracy and it goes against common sense to believe that this has anything to do with a conspiracy.


Whose common sense? Yours?

Common sense is just something formed by the way we are socialised, it differs in cultures around the World as well as people within each of those cultures.


Originally posted by ludaChris
Oh and the post about the Israeli agents possibly casing US Agencies, there is a saying in the intelligence community. "There are no such thing as allies, just common interests." I quote my professor who well call Bernie, worked in Intelligence in over 60 countries for the DSS(Diplomatic Security Service)


And if we have people inside terrorist organisations, why is it hard to believe they do not do the same? Be it a terrorist organisation or a institution of Government.


Originally posted by ludaChris
I will have to get some of the material he showed to our Terrorism class. The evidence I need is there and I will have it for you on the 22nd, which is this coming Tuesday.


Looking forward too it.



posted on Nov, 18 2005 @ 05:53 PM
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It is clear that Bin Laden hasen't gained much from this... [Iraq war is a different issue.]


Actually, I think bin Laden has gained everything he wanted out of the attacks- and possibly more. Some say Bush is playing right into bin Laden's hand (read Imperial Hubris). Spending a few hundred thousand dollars and 19 lives to kill 3,000 of the enemy and cause billions, if not ultimately trillions, of dollars of damage is a victory (albeit a temporary one) if you ask me. Because of these attacks, bin Laden officially became a household name throughout the world. 9/11 served as the ultimate recruitment tool for al Qaida and their cause, which was another goal of the attacks. bin Laden had another victory with the withdrawl of US forces from Saudi Arabia, which was his initial gripe with the US.

bin Laden knew that Bush would invade Afghanistan, and ultimately other Arab nations after 9/11. Now we're bogged down in Iraq. It appears bin Laden will get his ultimate wish- a war of epic proportions between Islam and the West. He is rallying Muslims everywhere against the US- just look at the polls. He's helped to create anti-American sentiment, the likes of which this generation has never seen.

And that is all just the beginning. Arguments can be made that subsequent attacks were planned and carried out due to the success of 9/11. Attacks like the 7/7 train bombings in Madrid, which resulted in the Pro-Iraq War government losing the elections.

So I think its incorrect to say that bin Laden hasn't benefited from the 9/11 attacks. And I also think its wrong to always assume that those who benefit the most from something are ultimately responsible for it. I mean a serial killer could murder my wife, and I could get a million dollars from her life insurance policy. I obviously benefited the most in some people's eyes, but that doesn't mean I'm the one who did it. Just because you feel that President Bush, the Neocons and their corporate entities have gained the most, doesn't mean they are responsible for what happened. They're just doing what every single person/group has done before them through this country's history- and that is take advantage of the times and the opportunities presented to them. Halliburton made a ton off of the war in Bosnia, but that doesn't mean Clinton was really Milosevic in disguise.



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