Dear Kamangir;
It seems that we disagree in many terms. In your opinion my information is incorrect and im my opinion some of your opinion, actually all of them are
incorrect.
Here we go:
Israel uses the Merkava MBT. It is distinct from the Abrams. In fact, it was developed before the Abrams!
So what? the T tanks of Iran, in
which country were they built? Not Iran. So, this is the same situation as the Merkava.
I doubt Iran would be that powerful.Iran was seemingly powerful under the Shah. But it was totally dependent on the US. It had little or no
indigenous capability. These were not Iranian achievements to be proud of but US hand-outs. Just like the lazy Persian Gulf Arabs today sit on their
arse and buy inordinate amounts of Western weaponry with their oil wealth
Believe me Iran was that powerful. I had 4 uncles and 1 grandfather
in the IIAF. Beside that there are military books about world military forces which were printed in the 70's. In the Netherlands I've seen many of
this books in libraries.
There are two differences between the Iranian forces before 1979 and after 1979. Before: Iran purchased the most advanced weapons. Today Iran can not
purchase advanced Western weapons so they have to build it by themself. USA has got many years of experiences on building advanced weapons. How about
Iran? I'm proud of what they're making, but in some cases experiences will defeat technology and quality will defeat quantity.
There are no friends in international relations; there are only interests. It was in Israel's interests to weaken an Arab country that was seeking to
increase its power and develop nuclear weapons. They were not helping Iran because they like us; they were only interested in neutralising a threat to
them.
During Iran-Iraq war Saddam threated Israel because Israel was helping Iran. We can find the answer about the good relationship between Israel
and Persia in history books
When it is in their interests to hurt Iran, they will do that. The question is: do you want Israel to bomb YOUR country? Who will suffer most
from such a course of action and its consequences? The clerics and Hezbollahis? I doubt it.
I don't want Israel to bomb Iran. But I also
don't want Iran to bomb Israel.
Who will suffer the most? at least not the leaders who are making threads toward another nation!
Israel makes threats of military action against Iran every day. Shaul Mofaz even went on Radio Israel to tell Iranians in Persian that Israel will
attack Iran!
Still it was the IRI who started with that kind of nonsence
Besides, Rafsanjani did not make a direct threat against Israel. It was phrased in the hypothetical as a warning. These are all just political games.
Rafsanjani was the first to condemn Ahmadinejad when he said that Israel should be wiped off the map.
Then Rafsanjani was stupid to say that.
He could say: "Israel watch out or we will attack you with our f-14's" instead of attacking you with a nuclear weapon.
Who overthrew Mossadegh? Did Iranians ever dislike the US before then? You cannot blame Iranians for responding badly to US attacks. Where is your
pride? If someone punches you, do you hang your head like a coward and walk off?
Mossadegh?! Do you really think Mossadegh could have done the
job better? I doubt it.
The current regime is bad. But, let's face facts, the Shah's regime was bad too. That's why the overthrow of the Shah was a popular revolution.
Most Iranians wanted rid of the Shah because he not only oppressed his people, by the end of the 1970s the economy had nosedived and the gap between
rich and poor was huge. It was not just Hezbollahis who wanted the Shah to go, but liberals too. I'm guessing your family was part of the elite who
benefited.
The overthrowing of Shah was a political game if you understand. From the European side he had to be overthrowned because Iran was
a danger to European economics. If you lived in Europe by now you would understand it. Plenty of information about that.
From the U.S. side the regime had to be changed because of the fact Shah could not stop the communism and islam could!
again if you were in Europe you could watch the documentaries about that on TV
Mohammad Reza Shah was also a failure. He was a weak and cowardly leader who was kicked out by his own people. I agree that Reza Shah was a good
leader. While he was an autocrat he did a lot to develop Iran. His son was not fit to lick his boots.
I don't know how old you are, but it
seems you have slept long enough to miss the Iranian development under Mohammad Reza Shah. Its a shame.The most of the proud we have today we have
earned from Mohmmad Reza Shah. We had status in the entire world. What do we have today? They call us poor Iranian terrorists!
This is false. The Netherlands was much richer than Iran in the 1970s. Income inequality was terrible. The elite benefited but most Iranians were
poor. Many lived in urban slums. The majority of Iranians were illiterate. Many Iranian villages did not have access to schools, roads or electricity.
Land reform was implemented badly (the land holdings given to each farmer were too small) so that Iran actually became a food importer after it
This is incorrect. I live in The Netherlands and believe me what I said before was true. The Dutch economy grew at full strenght in the
90's.
In the 70's they could not afford themselfs gasoline to drive! In the 70's The Netherlands asked Iran 20 billion dollars. Iran had no debts. If The
Netherlands had a better economy, then why asking Iran for money? Still today they haven't payed us back as far as I know.
The majority of Iranians were middle class people who could afford almost everything. I come from the province Fars. In fars every vilage had one
school and had access to roads. What are you talking about?
Ok, 90% of the villages had no electricity, but certifications were given to them to apply electricity, and you know what? All the villagers in
province Fars did reject that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You can find that proof in Ostandarieh Fars.
Land reforms was implemented badly? Have you seen the Iranian-American channel called Voice of America? One of the presentators name is mr Baharlou.
He's a son of a former greatland holder. They had to give lands to villagers. Just call him and ask him about the land reforms in profince Fars!
In those days there were almost 70.000 girls who were legally selling their bodies in whole Iran, Islamic Republic made that 600.000 only in Tehran
(source: Islamic Republic News Agency)
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Please, that's laughable. That's just propaganda. It's completely unbelievable! You are trying to say that something like 15% of Tehrani women are
prostitutes?!
Laughable? Don't you read ISNA or IRNA? or don't you watch IRIB? Propaganda? On whose side? the opposition while the IRI announced that kind
of facts?
In those days there were almost 22.000 addicted people in whole Iran, Islamic Republic made that 2.000.000!!! (source: Islamic Republic News
Agency)
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You know yourself that Iranians smoke a lot of drugs and drug addiction has always been a significant problem. Maybe it has increased somewhat but
I'm sure millions smoked taryak under the Shah too.
Thats correct. But did you read the history facts? Have you seen the IRI accusation of Shah in 1980? One of the accusations are 22.000
addicted people and 70.000 whores! They blamed Shah for this. Did you read the history books were has been written that the British gave Iranian youth
free opium in the 18th century? Are you forgotten that today in Iran Heroine and cocaine are cheaper than Marlboro?
Under the Shah Iran had an economical growht of 38.2% each year, Islamic Republic made that to 6.3% a year (source: IMF, globaledge.msu.edu)
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That's incorrect. Growth under the Shah was something like 9% on average in the 1960s and early 1970s (in 1974 growth was 42% but only because oil
prices increased a lot in that year). By the late 1970s that growth had ground to a halt. Under the Islamic Republic, Iran grew slowly for many years,
mainly due to the Revolution and the Iran-Iraq War. Recently, Iran has been growing quite well at 6 - 7%. Not bad at all.
What you are telling is incorrect. To see the facts just have a look in books like World Economics and IMF history. Then you realize it.
They both failed Iran. It is only right that they both be thrown in the dustbin.
If both failed, who do you want to become their successor? The
lefties like tudeh and mujahedeen? please shoot me before that happens
I'm sad that your grandfather was executed. I'm sure he loved his country and served it well. But the fact is that he was partly to blame for what
happened. The Shah's generals made a deal with Khomeini and let him take over; Khomeini turned around and killed them. They were naive.
Note:
not all of the generals did do that. Indeed, some of them did made a deal with khomeiny. But most of them were supporting the Shah and were ready to
prevent the revolution. But shah did not want more casualties and left the country. I don't see Khamenei leaving the country without killing thousand
of Iranians.
You see, we both have different opinions. I look in some sources while you look in other sources. I see things different and you see things different.
Like mujahedeen. I see them as traitors they see themself as heroes!!
In my opinion I'm telling the truth and only facts. In your opinion I'm not so sure.
[edit on 5-12-2005 by aria]
