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Originally posted by jsobecky
I know that this is strictly "human" thinking, but it makes sense to me that if there were a technically advanced species that could reach us, hover over us, and otherwise mystify us, then they would take the next step and simply land and make contact with us. So much more could be accomplished by being open than by being surreptitious.
That's it. To each his own, I guess. I know that lots of people believe in ufo's, and I don't judge them because of it.
Originally posted by Hal9000
we should be asking why were these documents filed under UFO's and classified “Top Secret Umbra”. Doesn't anyone else see this as proof that documents labeled UFO's carry the highest clearance level? Sure, this time it was to hide possible illegal activity, but it was labeled UFO's intentionally because it carries the highest security level and no one would find it for a long time.
If the subject of UFO's is not taken seriously by the government, why is it classified “Top Secret Umbra”?
Vice-President Dick Cheney Questioned On UFOs - 04-11-01
The questioning of Dick Cheney took place during Cheney's appearance on the Washington D.C. Public Radio Station WAMU on April 11, 2001. Dick Cheney spoke from the White House.
[websight link removed, does not work]
The question arises 26 minutes into the archived program for those
who want to go to the link and listen to it.
Here is the transcript:
Researcher Grant Cameron: Since the statement made by George Bush last July, there is a vicious rumor circulating in the UFO community that you've been read into the UFO program. So my question to you is, in any of your government jobs, have you ever been briefed on the subject of UFOs, and if you have, when was it and what were you told?
Cheney: Well, if I had been briefed on it, I'm sure it was probably classified and I couldn't talk about it.
Originally posted by Hal9000
Instead of turning this into a debate whether UFO's exist or not, we should be asking why were these documents filed under UFO's and classified “Top Secret Umbra”. Doesn't anyone else see this as proof that documents labeled UFO's carry the highest clearance level? Sure, this time it was to hide possible illegal activity, but it was labeled UFO's intentionally because it carries the highest security level and no one would find it for a long time. If the subject of UFO's is not taken seriously by the government, why is it classified “Top Secret Umbra”?
The just-released 1980 document explains that a total of 239 documents related to UFOs were located in NSA files, with 79 of those documents originating with other government agencies. ...A healthy chunk of these reports were produced between 1958 and 1979
Originally posted by Astronomer68
No, I would not even to begin to think what you said.
I worked for NSA for about 20 years and their classsifications come about because of where and how they get their material. Classified documents do come into the NSA from other govt. agencies, but most of them are handled differently from NSA documents, even if they are classified at the same level.
And for the record, NSA works damn hard to make sure everything they do is legal.
By the way, your standard of proof is pretty slim indeed if you classify the VP's comment as such.
Originally posted by Hal9000
I understand that it was probably given the level of clearance that may have come from another dept., but I have dealt with documentation myself, though not government work, and before releasing it is authorized and checked. How could something be filed under the name "UFO" if it had nothing to do with the subject without raising someone’s attention and being changed to the correct name? One thing that I might believe is that it was actually a code name for a project or operation.
I probably should have used the word "evidence" instead of "proof", but just the mention that the subject is classified, says a lot, IMO. What he said might have been a mistake, or it might be a slip of the tongue.
Having worked there, doesn’t this article surprise you at all? If not maybe you can explain why. I would expect that files carrying this high level of security would be taken seriously. And if the subject of UFO's does not warrant this level, then someone wasn't doing their job correctly. (Not that it is a reflection on you).
Looking forward to your reply.
Originally posted by jsobecky
I know that this is strictly "human" thinking, but it makes sense to me that if there were a technically advanced species that could reach us, hover over us, and otherwise mystify us, then they would take the next step and simply land and make contact with us. So much more could be accomplished by being open than by being surreptitious.
Originally posted by wecomeinpeace
And to think that any documents related to these secrets would be listed somewhere and subject to an FOIA request is just silly.
Originally posted by AgentSmith
How can a FOIA request be filed for a document if you don't know it exists? They keep a flow of information coming out because if nothing appeared regularly people would know there was something up and things were being hidden.
Originally posted by Umbrax
This Top Secret Umbra document was created in 1952. Many UFO sightings took place before 1952. Including major ones like the Roswell crash and The battle of LA.
Is it a coincidence that Project Blue Book started in 1952?
Originally posted by AgentSmith
Originally posted by jsobecky
I know that this is strictly "human" thinking, but it makes sense to me that if there were a technically advanced species that could reach us, hover over us, and otherwise mystify us, then they would take the next step and simply land and make contact with us. So much more could be accomplished by being open than by being surreptitious.
.
It's quite arrogant to think that if they did or have made contact it would be with people like you and me don't you think? They would go straight to the leaders if they had a similar structuyre to their own civilisation, which would be likely to have enabled them to advance technologically.
When you watch how humans behave and their talent for mass hysteria and killing anything they don't understand I think that an alien race would be pretty dumb to approach people en masse directly.
Originally posted by jsobecky
I think you have it backwards. Our "leaders" are the ones who are engaged in the killing here on our little planet. As far as enabling technological advancement, the gov't usually screws things up much faster than anybody. A simple project that would take $100 and one month ends up costing $500,000 and is 3 years late.
As far as ideas, nothing good ever comes out of a committee, AgentSmith.
As far as being arrogant, why no, I don't think I am. I consider myself the equal to any man; his position or title is not an automatic elevator for him.
When these aliens abduct humans, do they go after Bill Gates or Scott McNealy? No, they abduct Jane Smith from RD3, Haystack, MO. So it is shown that they do communicate with the common man.
Originally posted by Astronomer68
NSA is, interalia, in the business of electronically intercepting foreign government communications. The methods and techniques of doing so makes everything associated with the operation very hush hush. If you read my first post on this thread, you would see what the document that was released was probably all about. Chances are the document contained numerous references to one or more UFO's, but by foreign governments, not ours. Anything in the document that could possibly reveal how & where the information was gathered, or from what foreign government and/or agency it was gathered would be blacked out. About all that would be left would be isolated phrases and sentence fragments.