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ATS: Secret US Government UFO File Unveiled

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posted on Nov, 18 2005 @ 07:40 AM
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Didn't they say that they were doing something like this previous, wrt UFOs? That they were permiting a 'mystique' about ufo's to exist and use that as a distractionary cover for actual top secret programs? Quite interesting find.




posted on Nov, 18 2005 @ 08:07 AM
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Originally posted by jsobecky

I know that this is strictly "human" thinking, but it makes sense to me that if there were a technically advanced species that could reach us, hover over us, and otherwise mystify us, then they would take the next step and simply land and make contact with us. So much more could be accomplished by being open than by being surreptitious.

That's it. To each his own, I guess. I know that lots of people believe in ufo's, and I don't judge them because of it.


Yes but think about it. If we were able to travel to different planets, and happened to find civilized life. Would you want to immediately land and say hey whats up guys? And hope they don't attack you? Or would you want to observe the civilization first... Maybe show yourself a few times, a few fly bys over populated citys, to get them a bit used to you being a possibility. If they were to just land and make contact, that would be like throwing a plasma TV infront of a caveman, they wouldnt know what to do.

Also who says they want to contact us? Maybe they just want to observe us, or maybe its all for their entertainment? You never know.



posted on Nov, 18 2005 @ 08:40 AM
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Yes, one document doesnt condemn the govt to admission of UFO's but the point is ALL they do is lie. Everything is always the same answers.Point is, you will never know by them telling you anything. Im just saying......dont believe them, this isnt the govt you thought it was. It goes much deeper than that.........Oh I was in the military too and I have documents of my own.



posted on Nov, 18 2005 @ 09:44 AM
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Instead of turning this into a debate whether UFO's exist or not, we should be asking why were these documents filed under UFO's and classified “Top Secret Umbra”. Doesn't anyone else see this as proof that documents labeled UFO's carry the highest clearance level? Sure, this time it was to hide possible illegal activity, but it was labeled UFO's intentionally because it carries the highest security level and no one would find it for a long time. If the subject of UFO's is not taken seriously by the government, why is it classified “Top Secret Umbra”?



posted on Nov, 18 2005 @ 10:55 AM
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Originally posted by Hal9000

we should be asking why were these documents filed under UFO's and classified “Top Secret Umbra”. Doesn't anyone else see this as proof that documents labeled UFO's carry the highest clearance level? Sure, this time it was to hide possible illegal activity, but it was labeled UFO's intentionally because it carries the highest security level and no one would find it for a long time.




Excellent point hal.






If the subject of UFO's is not taken seriously by the government, why is it classified “Top Secret Umbra”?


Good question, IMO.

Just because this document was hidden under the UFO clearance level does NOT mean that real UFO files are not there too.

I'm still thinking feints with feints with camouflage over camouflage. Hard to know where to look. Documents must be requested by title.


.



posted on Nov, 18 2005 @ 12:02 PM
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Here is more proof that the subject of UFO's carries a high security clearance, from none other than the Vice President.



Vice-President Dick Cheney Questioned On UFOs - 04-11-01

The questioning of Dick Cheney took place during Cheney's appearance on the Washington D.C. Public Radio Station WAMU on April 11, 2001. Dick Cheney spoke from the White House.

[websight link removed, does not work]

The question arises 26 minutes into the archived program for those
who want to go to the link and listen to it.

Here is the transcript:

Researcher Grant Cameron: Since the statement made by George Bush last July, there is a vicious rumor circulating in the UFO community that you've been read into the UFO program. So my question to you is, in any of your government jobs, have you ever been briefed on the subject of UFOs, and if you have, when was it and what were you told?

Cheney: Well, if I had been briefed on it, I'm sure it was probably classified and I couldn't talk about it.


www.ufoevidence.org...



posted on Nov, 19 2005 @ 01:02 AM
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Originally posted by Hal9000
Instead of turning this into a debate whether UFO's exist or not, we should be asking why were these documents filed under UFO's and classified “Top Secret Umbra”. Doesn't anyone else see this as proof that documents labeled UFO's carry the highest clearance level? Sure, this time it was to hide possible illegal activity, but it was labeled UFO's intentionally because it carries the highest security level and no one would find it for a long time. If the subject of UFO's is not taken seriously by the government, why is it classified “Top Secret Umbra”?


No, I would not even to begin to think what you said. I worked for NSA for about 20 years and their classsifications come about because of where and how they get their material. Classified documents do come into the NSA from other govt. agencies, but most of them are handled differently from NSA documents, even if they are classified at the same level. And for the record, NSA works damn hard to make sure everything they do is legal.

By the way, your standard of proof is pretty slim indeed if you classify the VP's comment as such.

[edit on 19-11-2005 by Astronomer68]



posted on Nov, 19 2005 @ 01:16 AM
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The just-released 1980 document explains that a total of 239 documents related to UFOs were located in NSA files, with 79 of those documents originating with other government agencies. ...A healthy chunk of these reports were produced between 1958 and 1979


Perhaps when Reagan entered the Whitehouse...cough...I mean Bush Sr took the presidency in 1980, an agreement had been reached with the aliens that both sides could live with



posted on Nov, 19 2005 @ 02:27 AM
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Originally posted by Astronomer68
No, I would not even to begin to think what you said.

If not, can you offer a different reason why these files would be labeled under "UFO"?



I worked for NSA for about 20 years and their classsifications come about because of where and how they get their material. Classified documents do come into the NSA from other govt. agencies, but most of them are handled differently from NSA documents, even if they are classified at the same level.

I understand that it was probably given the level of clearance that may have come from another dept., but I have dealt with documentation myself, though not government work, and before releasing it is authorized and checked. How could something be filed under the name "UFO" if it had nothing to do with the subject without raising someone’s attention and being changed to the correct name? One thing that I might believe is that it was actually a code name for a project or operation.



And for the record, NSA works damn hard to make sure everything they do is legal.

I was referring to the allegation that a previous poster made on tapping foreign communications. Frankly, I don't know if it is legal or not. I think the NSA performs a valuable function for our national security, and I am not degrading it in any way.



By the way, your standard of proof is pretty slim indeed if you classify the VP's comment as such.

I probably should have used the word "evidence" instead of "proof", but just the mention that the subject is classified, says a lot, IMO. What he said might have been a mistake, or it might be a slip of the tongue.

Having worked there, doesn’t this article surprise you at all? If not maybe you can explain why. I would expect that files carrying this high level of security would be taken seriously. And if the subject of UFO's does not warrant this level, then someone wasn't doing their job correctly. (Not that it is a reflection on you).

Looking forward to your reply.



posted on Nov, 19 2005 @ 04:54 AM
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Originally posted by Hal9000

I understand that it was probably given the level of clearance that may have come from another dept., but I have dealt with documentation myself, though not government work, and before releasing it is authorized and checked. How could something be filed under the name "UFO" if it had nothing to do with the subject without raising someone’s attention and being changed to the correct name? One thing that I might believe is that it was actually a code name for a project or operation.


NSA is, interalia, in the business of electronically intercepting foreign government communications. The methods and techniques of doing so makes everything associated with the operation very hush hush. If you read my first post on this thread, you would see what the document that was released was probably all about. Chances are the document contained numerous references to one or more UFO's, but by foreign governments, not ours. Anything in the document that could possibly reveal how & where the information was gathered, or from what foreign government and/or agency it was gathered would be blacked out. About all that would be left would be isolated phrases and sentence fragments.


I probably should have used the word "evidence" instead of "proof", but just the mention that the subject is classified, says a lot, IMO. What he said might have been a mistake, or it might be a slip of the tongue.


The way I read that comment of the VP was more like a disarming way to change the subject. Kind of like when you ask someone a question and they say "I could tell you, but then I'de have to kill you cause its classified." The biggest part of the time that just means they want you to leave them alone, or change the subject.


Having worked there, doesn’t this article surprise you at all? If not maybe you can explain why. I would expect that files carrying this high level of security would be taken seriously. And if the subject of UFO's does not warrant this level, then someone wasn't doing their job correctly. (Not that it is a reflection on you).

Looking forward to your reply.


No, the article doesn't surprise me at all. As I said before, the article probably did contain numerous references to UFO's, but not by the U.S. government-- by foreign government agencies. Any document at that level of classification is taken extremely seriously--and rightly so, but in the case of NSA for different reasons than you suppose. As I also said before, I'm shocked the document was released at all, especially with that particular code word stamped on it, because once the document becomes public you can bet every foreign government in the world--even our best friends--would search through it to see if they could pin anything down about when, where, and how we got it and who we got it from. It would only take a tiny little snippet of information in the right hands to insure that no other information would ever be received from that source again, or even worse, start pumping false & misleading information through that source.

[edit on 19-11-2005 by Astronomer68]



posted on Nov, 19 2005 @ 05:18 AM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
I know that this is strictly "human" thinking, but it makes sense to me that if there were a technically advanced species that could reach us, hover over us, and otherwise mystify us, then they would take the next step and simply land and make contact with us. So much more could be accomplished by being open than by being surreptitious.


It's quite arrogant to think that if they did or have made contact it would be with people like you and me don't you think? They would go straight to the leaders if they had a similar structuyre to their own civilisation, which would be likely to have enabled them to advance technologically.
When you watch how humans behave and their talent for mass hysteria and killing anything they don't understand I think that an alien race would be pretty dumb to approach people en masse directly.

And as WCIP said:


Originally posted by wecomeinpeace
And to think that any documents related to these secrets would be listed somewhere and subject to an FOIA request is just silly.


How can a FOIA request be filed for a document if you don't know it exists? They keep a flow of information coming out because if nothing appeared regularly people would know there was something up and things were being hidden. Saying that a lot of good information does get released but there is an unrealistic amount for an individual to process.
But the point stays the same, if there is anything they don't want you to have then you won't ever see it. As I just said, you can't ask for or complain about what you don't know exists.



posted on Nov, 19 2005 @ 09:05 AM
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Originally posted by AgentSmith
How can a FOIA request be filed for a document if you don't know it exists? They keep a flow of information coming out because if nothing appeared regularly people would know there was something up and things were being hidden.


Right. You can just imagine it. Some guy sends out FOIA requests for random document names, hoping to hit the jackpot, and then one day...

Shadow Govt. Guy Fred: "Oh...my...God...no...no...NO!!"

Shadow Govt. Guy Bob: "What is it, Fred?

Shadow Govt. Guy Fred:
"The unthinkable has happened!"

Shadow Govt. Guy Bob: "What?! What?!"

Shadow Govt. Guy Fred: "Someone has put in an FOIA request...*gasping for air*...for a document entitled..."

Shadow Govt. Guy Bob: "No...NO...it can't be!...You mean the Super Most Top Top Secret For Nobody's Eyes Only Alien Secret Stuff So Don't Tell Anyone Document"???

Shadow Govt. Guy Fred: "YES!!"

Shadow Govt. Guy Bob: "NOOOO~!!! OUR PLANS ARE FOILED!!"

Shadow Govt. Guy Fred:
"THE SECRET IS OUT! NOW THE ENTIRE WORLD WILL KNOW! THERE'LL BE PANIC AND MAYHEM WORLDWIDE!! DAMN YOU, FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT!! DAMN YOOOOOUUU!!"

Shadow Govt. Guy Bob: "Hey, you wanna go get a burger?"

Shadow Govt. Guy Fred: "mmm...Sure."



.

[edit on 2005-11-19 by wecomeinpeace]



posted on Nov, 19 2005 @ 09:43 AM
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Precisely, even I (and you know what stance I usually take) think that it's incredible that anyone thinks they would really get everything they want from the FOIA. If only it was that simple...... I think it's safe to admit that the really, REALLY good stuff will always be secret, in our lifetimes anyway.

But don't give up hope guys, there is some interesting stuff released so don't give up on it yet. They probably hope that people will take things like this to heart and won't bother looking.

You want to look at things that are released even more at times like this because it's while everyone is muttering about how crappy it is and how the system doesn't work that anything good will get slipped out in the hope that no-one will actually bother reading it.



posted on Nov, 19 2005 @ 10:09 AM
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"Oh what a tangled web we weave, When first we practice to deceive."

The web is getting so tangled, it wont be long before someone trips.


This Top Secret Umbra document was created in 1952. Many UFO sightings took place before 1952. Including major ones like the Roswell crash and The battle of LA.
Is it a coincidence that Project Blue Book started in 1952?



posted on Nov, 19 2005 @ 10:15 AM
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Originally posted by Umbrax

This Top Secret Umbra document was created in 1952. Many UFO sightings took place before 1952. Including major ones like the Roswell crash and The battle of LA.
Is it a coincidence that Project Blue Book started in 1952?




You have good pints Umbrax, and they are well taken. But just to clarify:

The recently-released document was created in 1980. It is called In Camera Affidavit of Eugene F. Yeates: Citizens Against UFO Secrecy v. National Security Agency, October 9, 1980.

It was the National Security Agency/Central Security Service that was created in November 1952 (as America’s cryptologic organization).



posted on Nov, 19 2005 @ 10:20 AM
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Originally posted by AgentSmith

Originally posted by jsobecky
I know that this is strictly "human" thinking, but it makes sense to me that if there were a technically advanced species that could reach us, hover over us, and otherwise mystify us, then they would take the next step and simply land and make contact with us. So much more could be accomplished by being open than by being surreptitious.


It's quite arrogant to think that if they did or have made contact it would be with people like you and me don't you think? They would go straight to the leaders if they had a similar structuyre to their own civilisation, which would be likely to have enabled them to advance technologically.
When you watch how humans behave and their talent for mass hysteria and killing anything they don't understand I think that an alien race would be pretty dumb to approach people en masse directly.
.

I think you have it backwards. Our "leaders" are the ones who are engaged in the killing here on our little planet. As far as enabling technological advancement, the gov't usually screws things up much faster than anybody. A simple project that would take $100 and one month ends up costing $500,000 and is 3 years late. As far as ideas, nothing good ever comes out of a committee, AgentSmith.

As far as being arrogant, why no, I don't think I am. I consider myself the equal to any man; his position or title is not an automatic elevator for him.

When these aliens abduct humans, do they go after Bill Gates or Scott McNealy? No, they abduct Jane Smith from RD3, Haystack, MO. So it is shown that they do communicate with the common man.





posted on Nov, 19 2005 @ 11:12 AM
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Thanks for that soficrow.

Is there anyway that we can read that document? Do we have to request a copy or would they publish it on the net?



posted on Nov, 19 2005 @ 11:19 AM
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The document was secured by the FAS, along with others unrelated to UFOs.

SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2005, Issue No. 106
November 14, 2005

The document is here:

See "In Camera Affidavit of Eugene F. Yeates," Citizens Against UFO Secrecy v. National Security Agency, October 9, 1980 (redacted), here:

www.fas.org...



posted on Nov, 19 2005 @ 11:30 AM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
I think you have it backwards. Our "leaders" are the ones who are engaged in the killing here on our little planet. As far as enabling technological advancement, the gov't usually screws things up much faster than anybody. A simple project that would take $100 and one month ends up costing $500,000 and is 3 years late.


Killing on a grand scale yes, but you should know how people get when scared - they have a tendancy to open fire and throw stones. A lot of people would just get scared and cause damage.



As far as ideas, nothing good ever comes out of a committee, AgentSmith.


I hope that won't be the case on here




As far as being arrogant, why no, I don't think I am. I consider myself the equal to any man; his position or title is not an automatic elevator for him.


I didn't really mean you specifically and I can see where you are coming from and it's the way I generally treat people. For instance I really have a problem with people serving me food in a restaurant or at a function because I don't think anyone should have what I consider 'slaves'. I don't make a fuss but I always try to set them at ease and open conversations with them instead of clicking my fingers and complaining like too many other people.

But assuming any aliens have a similar social structure as we do, then they will probably go to the leaders rather than directly have contact with groups of individuals.
If and when we are in the same position ourselves and exploring alien worlds then we will probably follow that procedure.



When these aliens abduct humans, do they go after Bill Gates or Scott McNealy? No, they abduct Jane Smith from RD3, Haystack, MO. So it is shown that they do communicate with the common man.



I walked into that one didn't I? I did think about abductions after but I didn't bother to mention it. I don't think the abductions are what we would call civilised contact however, if it's all true then they are blatantly just taking us for their experiments or whatever they are up to. Much like what we do with animals in the jungle.



posted on Nov, 19 2005 @ 01:02 PM
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Originally posted by Astronomer68
NSA is, interalia, in the business of electronically intercepting foreign government communications. The methods and techniques of doing so makes everything associated with the operation very hush hush. If you read my first post on this thread, you would see what the document that was released was probably all about. Chances are the document contained numerous references to one or more UFO's, but by foreign governments, not ours. Anything in the document that could possibly reveal how & where the information was gathered, or from what foreign government and/or agency it was gathered would be blacked out. About all that would be left would be isolated phrases and sentence fragments.


Thanks for the reply, and I understand now what your saying. The information was classified because of how or where the information was gathered and not necessarily because of the subject matter. Releasing the documents would damage future capability of gathering more information, and is a good reason to keep it secret.

After reading the Yeates affidavit, that is why it was written. It is actually a response for a suit filed by Citizens Against UFO Secrecy in 1980 for not releasing older COMINT reports under the FOIA, and it explains why the requested documents are exempt from disclosure.

So I agree with the article in saying that the documents do not show that the NSA was intentionally keeping information on UFO’s from the public. But I think you can see why people where suspicious.

Thanks again for helping to answer the question I posted earlier. This was certainly an interesting read and lesson learned.

For anyone interested, I came across the NSA website which also has a copy of the affidavit, and some of the older COMINT files.

www.nsa.gov...



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