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NEWS: Austria Holds 'Holocaust Denier'

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posted on Feb, 20 2006 @ 09:34 PM
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Does anyone else see the similarities to the thought crimes Winston Smith is found guilty of in Orwell’s 1984? Step by step, it’s almost scary. From making statements that go against the established belief, to being charged criminally with them, to coming foreword and saying that he was wrong, that he apologizes and that he was under the influence of ignorance.

The Holocaust occurred, and it was awful…. Oceania has always been at war with Eurasia.

Of course I’m not denying that the holocaust happened, otherwise I could get in trouble, but I think that this is a very sobering thought. When our only proof that an event occurred is based on what other people have told other people, which eventually are passed on to us. I think it’s very important to question the evidence, and not be punished for questioning the evidence.




posted on Feb, 20 2006 @ 09:38 PM
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You can question the evidence, but apparently you have to be careful about where you do the questioning. Holocaust survivors are still alive today. I think you could probably find a few who would tell you of their personal experiences and show you their tattoos. I'm not really familiar with this case, but it seems to me that this individual must have crossed some line between questioning and preaching.

It seems as though Mr. Irving has been railing against the establishment since his youth. A biography written for his legal counsel when he was sued by Captain J E Broome in 1970.

[edit on 2006/2/20 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Feb, 20 2006 @ 10:35 PM
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What does the exact number of victims matter? Whether it was 1 or 6 million the Holocast happened and can't be denied. Holocaust denial is a form of discrimination against Jews. I just reread a book Holocaust Denial by Kenneth Sterns, I recommend that any who question why denial is against the law in many countries read it. I found it quite enlightening. Also I don't think the gentleman in question was arrested for questioning number and much as denial which like it or not is against the law in Austria. When you visit another country you are in fact bound by it's laws. Laws against denial are there to ensure that it doesn't happen again. The only way to make sure history isn't repeated is to educate our children and ensure that it isn't forgotten.



posted on Feb, 20 2006 @ 10:54 PM
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Man, this whole thing is a load of crap.

At this point, I am sick of all this talk about punishing people for denying the Holocaust. I don't give a damn if it's illegal in some countries, it is still crap. Hitler killed more non-Jewish people than Jews, for one. Two, Stalin and Mao killed way more people than Hitler did.

All you hear about is Holocaust, Holocaust, Jews, Jews, Jews. I say that's because of the Jewish-controlled media, at least in this country (the US). Where's all the talk about the millions of Russians exterminated all day? How about constantly hearing about the INSANE number of Chinese slaughtered? No, apparently not.

I don't mean to take away from the Holocaust. It was horrible, as were the killing by Stalin and Mao. But damn it, I am SICK of hearing people go on and on about Jews and the Holocaust. Damn.



posted on Feb, 20 2006 @ 11:32 PM
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David Irving got what he so richly deserves. His denial of the Holocaust is reprehensible. No amount of free speech allows one to defame the memory of the deaths of innocents, be they Jew, Gypsy, Homosexual, or whomever. His questioning of the numbers murdered was not legitimate research, but merely a means to attempt to try to restore the luster to his hero Adolph Hitler.

David Irving and his ilk are reprehensible little toads. Defaming the memory of the dead, and the survivors of this atrocity in order to foment their antisemitism is blackest evil.



posted on Feb, 21 2006 @ 05:53 AM
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And because they are the blackest of evil, we should lock them away, never to spread their black propaganda again. Better yet, let's burn them and everyone like them. Well, I suppose locking them up will do...for now.
(I hope the sarcasm came accross in the text. This was meant to be ironic, I hope it came accross as such)



posted on Feb, 21 2006 @ 06:48 AM
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People, like David Irving, are more than entitled to their own opinion, but they're not entitled to their own facts. There's no verifiable evidence out there, that I know of, that supports the claim the 'Final Solution' didn't take place and that 6 million Jews were not killed by the Nazi's by the war's end in 1945.

Don't get me wrong, there's lots of fabricated evidence out there supporting that claim...but, like i said, it's fabricated.

What's so funny about the whole Irving case is that he kept changing his story in an obvious attempt to prevent the obvious...that he'd get a jail sentence. He stuck by his guns for so long, then when he realised that he WOULD go on on trial and that he possibly WOULD be jailed for, in a speech in the 1980s in Austria, denying that the Holocaust every took place, he made a complete U-Turn.



posted on Feb, 21 2006 @ 09:54 AM
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You never know on which side of the fence (literally) you end up until it's too late, 'cause the next thing we'll see is laws against offending religions, then corporations, and so on.

Once you set a precedent of persecution for words without actions, all is lost.



posted on Feb, 21 2006 @ 10:07 AM
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Originally posted by Long Lance
You never know on which side of the fence (literally) you end up until it's too late, 'cause the next thing we'll see is laws against offending religions, then corporations, and so on.

Once you set a precedent of persecution for words without actions, all is lost.

The Human Rights groups have harped on about that over the past half century, and laws like have yet to be put in place.



posted on Feb, 21 2006 @ 10:25 AM
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Originally posted by Riwka
But I really like the way, the publishers cancelled plans to publish Irving's books.



  • In 1991, Macmillan UK Ltd chose to stop accepting his new works and allowed already published books to lapse out of print.

  • In 1996, St. Martin's Press, a New York publishing house, canceled its plan to publish Irving's books.


  • Doesn't matter most of his books are online at his website, where his works will spread much further than if publishers had held the copyrights.

    That being said, I don't agree with Irving's view of the holocaust, I have read and seen what the Holocaust was all about. I have spoken to a person who was in Chelmno - It happened.

    On the other hand though I have read Irving's book about the destruction of Dresden which I found to be accurate. So n9ot everything he has written is tainted.



    posted on Feb, 21 2006 @ 11:14 AM
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    I don't understand something.

    You have doctors that abort babies everyday and some people think it's murder. You have world leaders bombing and murdering people for their own greedy purposes. But this is the guy that needs to go to jail? Why? Because he offends some people by doing research?

    If they start jailing people for offending someone they better start building more prisons.



    posted on Feb, 21 2006 @ 01:15 PM
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    wow.


    Austrian prosecutors have even filed an appeal against the three-year prison sentence handed to David Irving. They think 3 years jail is not enough.


    Prosecutors say Irving jail term should be longer

    "The public prosecutor believes the ruling was too lenient in light of a possible sentence of up to ten years and Irving’s special importance to rightwing radicals," Herr Geyer [spokesman for the public prosecutor's office in Vienna] said.

    Herr Geyer said that the prosecutors had argued that Irving had only pretended to moderate his views in order to reduce his sentence


    That echoed a declaration by the presiding judge in the case, Peter Liebetreu, who said that Irving's expressions of regret were "considered to be mere lip service to the law".


    The appeal will be heard by the Austrian Supreme Court, although probably not until the second half of this year.



    posted on Feb, 21 2006 @ 08:44 PM
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    Originally posted by jms88
    I don't understand something.

    You have doctors that abort babies everyday and some people think it's murder. You have world leaders bombing and murdering people for their own greedy purposes. But this is the guy that needs to go to jail? Why? Because he offends some people by doing research?

    If they start jailing people for offending someone they better start building more prisons.

    Nah, more like he was trying re-write history in-line with his own warped, facist and anti-semetic views of the world.



    posted on Feb, 21 2006 @ 09:11 PM
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    That's opposed to those who write history with their own equally fanatical, prejudiced view that we've all come to know and love.



    posted on Feb, 21 2006 @ 09:17 PM
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    Originally posted by Rasobasi420
    That's opposed to those who write history with their own equally fanatical, prejudiced view that we've all come to know and love.

    Name them.



    posted on Feb, 22 2006 @ 04:35 AM
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    Originally posted by Lanton

    Originally posted by Rasobasi420
    That's opposed to those who write history with their own equally fanatical, prejudiced view that we've all come to know and love.

    Name them.


    I guess somebody will have to do it.... could as well be me, then right?

    Why is it that most if not all talk about the holocaust is centered around a single ethnicity? www.holocaustforgotten.com...

    If you're willing to talk post-ww2, i suggest reading up on the Tonking gulf 'incident' and what really happened / didn't happen and how it all resulted in 'nam'...



    posted on Feb, 22 2006 @ 06:43 AM
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    Originally posted by Long Lance

    Originally posted by Lanton

    Originally posted by Rasobasi420
    That's opposed to those who write history with their own equally fanatical, prejudiced view that we've all come to know and love.

    Name them.


    I guess somebody will have to do it.... could as well be me, then right?

    Why is it that most if not all talk about the holocaust is centered around a single ethnicity? www.holocaustforgotten.com...

    If you're willing to talk post-ww2, i suggest reading up on the Tonking gulf 'incident' and what really happened / didn't happen and how it all resulted in 'nam'...

    What, you tell me, has the Gulf of Tonkin incident got to do with people (who call themselves 'historians') denying that the Holocaust ever happened? I'm well aware that the Americans orchestrated the Gulf of Tonkin incident as a reason to escalate US military involvement on the ground in Vietnam...there's verifiable evidence to back that claim up.

    There is however no verifiable evidence to back up the claim that the Holocaust didn't take place or that 6 million Jews were not killed (exterminated) by the Nazi's.



    posted on Feb, 22 2006 @ 12:40 PM
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    For us to deny that others aside from Jews were slaughtered by the Nazi's would make us as small-mindedly evil as the anti-semitics out there denying the Jewish Holocaust. I, for one, am much better than that. Having said that, no one is trying to deny that gypsies, poles, and so many, many others were murdered in the death camps. These guys, slugs that they are, deny the Jewish deaths to push their bigoted racial agenda.

    Of course, there have been other genocides, some of which are on going. Darfur comes to mind.

    Will this be as infamous as the Holocaust of the Jews? More than likely not. It's a sad fact, that the death camps of WWII happened in the middle of Europe, not in Africa, or Armenia, so there is going to be more outrage in the west, because it happened there. Backyard, so to speak.

    Doesn't make any of these horrific happenings any less horrible, just less known.



    posted on Feb, 22 2006 @ 03:16 PM
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    Originally posted by Lanton

    ..What, you tell me, has the Gulf of Tonkin incident got to do with people (who call themselves 'historians') denying that the Holocaust ever happened?
    ..


    Let's call the issue historic fidelity, shall we? extent is not a good indicator of honesty.

    btw, what the first part of my post? and how did you get the idea i somehow wanted to deny the holocaust? my problem is that many no-jewish people were murdered and then forgotten. That's selective perception folks and half truths are still distortions, aren't they?

    - in context of



    That's opposed to those who write history with their own equally fanatical, prejudiced view that we've all come to know and love.


    (emphasis mine)

    [edit on 22-2-2006 by Long Lance]



    posted on Feb, 23 2006 @ 12:26 PM
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    Mr. Irving even lacks the courage of his odius convictions. Trying to escape the punishment about to be levied he suddenly sees the light, and admits the gas chambers existed. This shows me he had nothing but an agenda of hatred (which, of course, most of us knew) for the people slaughtered in the Death Camps, and else where, and a burning desire to rehabilitate certain members of the Nazi heirarchy.

    He failed, and now pays the piper. Too bad, soooo sad. Say hi to your new bunky, and don't drop the soap.



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