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Can Stigmata be explained?

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posted on Nov, 16 2005 @ 10:10 PM
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There have been numerous accounts of Stigmata dating back to the first known case in 1186 (St. Francis of Assisi). Today there are still bizzare cases of Stigmata, such as that of Giorgio Bongiovanni. Also Mother Theresea was known to have had Stigmata.

Check out this website for more information... www.crystalinks.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink">Stigmata

There is much debate to how stigmata actually occurs. How can one spontaneously recieve wounds on their body like this. I believe that this is important that mostly devoutly religous persons are inflicted. Can this be explained? Is God playing a role, or is this just some unknown biological disease? Could Stigmata be genetic?

Does anyone have any input, this really baffles me.




posted on Nov, 16 2005 @ 10:14 PM
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Sorry, I'm new to this, this link should work now...Stigmata info



posted on Nov, 16 2005 @ 10:25 PM
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Can you summarize that stuff for me? please, if you don't mind.. just like whats the main point?

Do those articles just say its pyscosomatic(sp?)?

I thinks its demonic. Jesus Christ died once and for all for all sin.
God would NOT do this nonsense to people who really KNOW HIM!



posted on Nov, 16 2005 @ 10:41 PM
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I'll have to come up with a list of possibilities:

1. Conscious deceit.
The cases I've read hint at this possibility in some instances. I don't think it explains the phenomenon by any means. But it can never be ruled out.

2. Auto-suggestion
I don't mean this as a put-down. Personally, I believe that people have a great degree of control over the supposedly autonomic nervous system. I know from first hand experience, as a patient, that a person who is bleeding to death can stop the blood-flow through hypnosis. Stigmatics are generally in an ecstatic trance; the sort of altered state that would open up the self to this sort of thing. Contrary to the horrid rip-off movie, stigmatism is not known to occur to persons other than those who meditate upon Christ's passion.

3. Spiritual intervention
Some force, whether benign or malevalent, that interacts with the psyche of the stigmatic.


These are basically the ones I can come up with.

Anyone think of a 4th?

Basically, I keep coming back to the idea that the stigmatic is a willing partner in the phenomenon, regardless of the source.

Now, wouldn't it be cool to have a group of stigmatics take the MMPI, and work up a statistical analysis of their responses?

Anyway, I think the key is the personality of the stigmatic.

of course, as I type this I remember Audrey Santo, who, if still living, has been in a coma since 1987. If hers is genuine, it'd throw a wrench in either my definition of "a willing stigmatic," or else it'd mess up our definition of what constitutes the state of coma.

There. That didn't hurt, did it???



posted on Nov, 16 2005 @ 11:26 PM
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Baisically, I just wanted to hear some opinioins on the subject, it seems that there is not much hard scientific research being done. The link is just a synopsis of Stigmata in general terms. It describes the symptoms such as bleeding from the hands, feet, back, and even eyes. I reccomend reading the article or just searching for Stigmata in an engine for a briefer description.

The main point is that no one really knows exactly how every case occurs, some are explainable other are not. Modern scientists still cannot 100% prove, at least to my knowledge, what causes Stigmata.

as to this quote...


God would NOT do this nonsense to people who really KNOW HIM!


Could God, or a higher being give Stigmata to the people closest to him/her/or whoever because they are most willing to accept Jesus's pain and suffering. Many deeply religous people devout their lives to live like Jesus, maybe the Stigmata reflects this devoution. OR maybe someone is showing us a sign?? But who really knows??

I am a christian, however a skeptical one at that.



posted on Nov, 16 2005 @ 11:34 PM
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Originally posted by nonpoint
Baisically, I just wanted to hear some opinioins on the subject, it seems that there is not much hard scientific research being done. The link is just a synopsis of Stigmata in general terms. It describes the symptoms such as bleeding from the hands, feet, back, and even eyes. I reccomend reading the article or just searching for Stigmata in an engine for a briefer description.

The main point is that no one really knows exactly how every case occurs, some are explainable other are not. Modern scientists still cannot 100% prove, at least to my knowledge, what causes Stigmata.

as to this quote...


God would NOT do this nonsense to people who really KNOW HIM!


Could God, or a higher being give Stigmata to the people closest to him/her/or whoever because they are most willing to accept Jesus's pain and suffering. Many deeply religous people devout their lives to live like Jesus, maybe the Stigmata reflects this devoution. OR maybe someone is showing us a sign?? But who really knows??

I am a christian, however a skeptical one at that.


Phil 3: 10 A. Paul said he wanted to have the fellowship of sharing in Christ's suffering.

He did NOT in anyway refer to stigmata or something like that!

If you read the rest of Phil 3 Paul is talking about considering the things of this world as nothing in comparision to eternal life (which is to KNOW God)...

bk of James says "friendship with the world is emnity with God"
...thats like in 1or 2 Tim where it says all who live godly in Christ Jesus WILL SUFFER PERSECUTION ...at the hands of men and satan ...God will use that to refine HIS people and encourage repentance...

If you look into the doctrine of these ppl that experience stigmata... they are clearly not born again (aka baptized in the Holy Spirit aka have eternal life)


***edit: I want to add that I do believe stigmata exists...but it is demonic in origin... NOT of the one, true God

[edit on 16-11-2005 by seawater999]



posted on Nov, 17 2005 @ 12:19 AM
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when a person has marks (that came from no where) relating to the marks jesus had when he was crusified their known as/called a stigmatic



posted on Nov, 17 2005 @ 03:08 AM
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Stigmata is not an accepted miracle or pre-requiset for Saint hood, according to the Catholic church. The church has pretty much accepted that its caused by the peoples intense meditation on, usually, Christ's crucifixion.

Its psychosomatic, caused by the mind. A woman had lashings appear on her back absolutly identical to a painting of Jesus being whipped, which hung on the wall of her church. And stigmatics have wounded hands even though its known that the nails would have been driven between the bones above the wrist, which would have done a better job of holding up a body. The reason for the hand wounds is that all that statues and paintings show nails going through the hands, and this is what the stigmatics concentrated on.

St. Francis of Assisi actually had nails appear in his hands. The were made out of hard skin, they were round, and could be slid in and out of the hand wounds. This is how powerful the image of Christ's crucifixion was to him. His mind not only created the wounds, but the nails in them! Amazing, but not a sign of God's work as we would have it. Im not saying God has nothing to do with miracles; I just dont think Gods sitting on a cloud looking for people to bestow with bloody wounds. But that fact miracles do happen should comfort us with the knowledge that life is much more fantastic that is written in our science books.



posted on Nov, 18 2005 @ 08:36 PM
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Stigmata is indeed recognized by the church, although it alone is not sufficient for sainthood. There have been a number of saints who bore the stigmata. St. Catherine of SIena was the 1st recorded. Shortly after, she asked for the wounds to become unseen.
St. Francis of Assisi bore the stigmata, including fleshy potruberances that resembled nails. In fact, there are 62 saints who were stigmatics.

The church maintains that stigmata is a result of people who meditate extensively on the Passion. These people are known as estatics. The wounds are not the only phenomena. Stigmatics often experience the pains of the Passion, and many report visions of the event as well.

There have been stigmatics in the 19th and 20th centuries. In fact, there were 20 documented stigmatics in the 19th. Medical science was never successful in healing or explaining these wounds. Pieere Janet enclosed one stigmatics foot with a copper shoe with a clear pane. There was no way to remove the shoe or tamper with the foot. The wounds reoccured.

Perhaps the most famous stigmatic - certainly the most well known - is Padre Pio. He spent most of his life bearing the stigmata. He not only suffered the physical wounds but experienced the trial of the Passion, and often demonic assault. In 2002, he was canonized as Saint Pio.



posted on Nov, 28 2005 @ 09:33 AM
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I believe the marks of stigmata are selfinflicted or have appeared by accident. But they keep bleeding, and I believe this is probably a genetic disorder which results in the blood not being able to clod as fast as usual.



posted on Nov, 28 2005 @ 09:37 AM
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Originally posted by ViolatoR
The church has pretty much accepted that its caused by the peoples intense meditation on, usually, Christ's crucifixion.


No it hasn't. The Catholic Church does NOT say that it is caused
by meditation. The Catholic Church does say that it is a gift from
God.


Its psychosomatic, caused by the mind.


Padre Pio was a well known stigmatist. He is now a canonized
Catholic Saint. He died in the late 1960's. He was once asked
if his stigmata was because he meditated on Christ's passion.
He just looked at the person and said 'go home and meditate
on a the horns of a steer and let me know if you ever grow
horns'. In other words - NO, they didn't arrive because he
meditated. They were a direct gift from God. This is from
a modern day stigmatist that is 'approved' by the Catholic Church.



posted on Nov, 28 2005 @ 09:39 AM
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Originally posted by shantyman
St. Catherine of SIena was the 1st recorded.


St. Francis of Assisi is the first recorded stigmatist.
Some feel that St. Paul may have been. His biblical
writings give a clue that he might be. But the first
'for sure' one is St. Francis of Assisi.



posted on Nov, 28 2005 @ 10:49 AM
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Most cases and instances of stigmata and stigmatics can't be investigated. The ones that can very often end up being frauds, even when involving preists/monks/nuns/etc.

The biggest problem is that it can so rarely be accurately and scientifically investigated.

Pyschosomatic effects were for a long time though as immpossible as miracles, however, its been relatively decently shown that some things can happen because of this. Keep in mind that sometimes a stigmata isn't an actual open bleeding wound.

I've never heard of a psychosomatic incident where a person's flesh opened up as with a wound.

I've never heard of a scientifically investigated open wound stigmatic.

When ever such claims have been investigated, to my knowledge, they've been shown to very likely be frauds.



posted on Nov, 28 2005 @ 09:39 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by shantyman
St. Catherine of SIena was the 1st recorded.


St. Francis of Assisi is the first recorded stigmatist.
Some feel that St. Paul may have been. His biblical
writings give a clue that he might be. But the first
'for sure' one is St. Francis of Assisi.


Consult the Catholic Encyclopedia - I stand by my assertion that Catherine was a stigmatic.

Nguyen - I would like to see any proof that you may have that substantiates your claim that most stigmatas are frauds. In an earlier post, I mentioned at least one case where skeptics couldn't explain the wounds. Padre Pio was observed extensively during his life, and there was absolutely no proof of fraud.

Finally, most - if not all - stigmatics have a history of also being ecstatics - those who meditated extensively on the Passion. I am not saying that stigmata is not a gift from God - of course it is - but I again stand by my assertion that most stigmatics meditated extensively on the Passion and records exist to substantiate this thesis.

[edit on 28-11-2005 by shantyman]



posted on Nov, 29 2005 @ 01:37 AM
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Have you ever seen the matrix? where people die in the computer program and die in real life. the brain makes it real. SO most likely thier minds created the stigmata.



posted on Dec, 15 2005 @ 03:34 PM
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Can Stigmata be explained?

If enough people tell you enough times that you are ugly, you may start to believe it.

If enough people tell you enough times that you are stupid, you may start to believe it.

How is consciousness defined?

I would define sonsciousness as something that is self aware and can integrate information about it's environment and have an effect upon it's environment.

Now going back to the if enough people called you stupid and ugly, you may start to believe it.

Now go look in a mirror and see and think "there i am, and i am 1)

You have just told every cell that comprises that thought that they do not exist.

Cells are self aware, can integrate information, and can effect their enviroment.

Stigmata is a person who is "feeling" how their own cells are communicationg with them, and is their cells talking back to them. Either punishing them for their past offenses upon them, or thanking them, or thanking Christ by sharing the pain. This is what i think Stigmata may very well be. Just the cells carrying out the collective will of theirselves, and that which they combine to form.

I see you refer to St. Francis of Assisi's Stigmata.


"What you are looking for is what is looking"
St. Francis of Assisi


This may help you: Start writing a journal/diary, while you write it, write it knowing no one else will ever read it, for it is only for you. Think about how different you act around everyone you know when you are interacting with them individually. You are not always the same person, a lot of the time you act how you percieve they expect you to, out of fear of not being accepted as you are. Do you accept how you are? Get to know yourself. Keep a journal.




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