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Roswell counter-intelligence Operation?

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posted on Feb, 21 2006 @ 03:42 AM
Unidentified Fibbing Objects

Though I don't have anything intelligent to add, I just wanted to say that this is an excellent line of investigation that I find most intriguing.

In particular, the point about the Rawin targets apparently originating from Wright field at such an auspicious time strongly suggests a deliberate coverup.

One more piece of a complex puzzle.

I say "Way Above". Keep digging!

posted on Feb, 23 2006 @ 01:59 AM
Thanks Majic.

I also found this, at Project 1947 .

On the 9th of July at 1:00 p. m. reporters observed a balloon release with radar targets at Alamogordo. This story was carried in some newspapers the next day. It was not widely reported. Several balloon releases by Army, Navy and weather bureau personnel were made for newsmen during the next few days. A story was headlined on "Army, Navy Work to Still Saucer Rumors." (A variation of that story from a Nevada newspaper is reproduced below.) It basically reports that UFO stories are falling apart; easily explained as common natural or man-made objects. Many editors, it indicates, have tired of the nonsense associated with the flying saucers and state so. After this date, few sightings are carried on the news wires. It is still possible to find local news stories.

On that same page just below is a reproduction of the Las Vegas Review-Journal - July 9, 1947.

Las Vegas Review-Journal - July 9, 1947


By United Press

(UP) -- Reports of flying saucers whizzing through the sky fell off sharply today as the army and navy began a concentrated campaign to stop the rumors.

One by one, persons who thought they had their hands on the $3,000 offered for a genuine flying saucer found their hands full of nothing.

Headquarters of the 8th army at Fort Worth, Texas, announced that the wreckage of a tin-foil covered object found on a New Mexico ranch was nothing more than the remnants of a weather balloon. AAF headquarters in Washington reportedly delivered a "blistering" rebuke to officers at the Roswell, New Mexico, base for suggesting that it was a "flying disc."

Meanwhile at Alamogordo New Mexico the Press is being dazzled by Balloon launches and long explanations of how and why UFOs are RAWIN targets. Even attributing the Balloons from Alamogordo themselves to sightings all over the Midwest and Rockies. No mention however of the Ohio RAWIN Targets however.

The News stories tell of how the Balloons and Targets are used for Radar training and Experiments. And we are even told that B-17's and other aircraft are used to find them!

July 10, 1947, Alamogordo News, Front Page


Some of the balloons, of the type shown to the Alamogordo News representatives Wednesday, the commanding officer said, were used to carry at times devices that it was necessary for the group to recover and these were tracked to their destination by B-17's and other aircraft if they soared out of range of the radar equipment.

Yet we are to believe that they lost the first MOGUL Balloon Train and couldn't find it.

Guess those B-17's and Radar Operators were taking the day off when they launched that MOGUL Train.

Of course that would have been the only Balloon that would have actually been worth putting up Planes to look for.

( Also for Historical reference the next day July 10 , 1947 is the day that Dr. La Paz witnessed a UFO near Ft. Sumner , NM )

And don't forget that Gen. Watson from Wright Field has a team in an Alamogordo Hotel during this time or shortly there after supposedly "spying" on the Army.


During the late 1940s, the Army began testing captured, German V-2 missiles at White Sands, New Mexico. The question was asked of General Watson, "What's the Army doing at White Sands?" Since the question came from a high level, he decided to find out. To gather the information, General Watson decided to see what information could be obtained using electronic surveillance. After getting his plan approved by J. Edgar Hoover, the Federal Bureau of Investigation director, and General Nathan Twining, the Air Force Chief of Staff, General Watson put a crew in a hotel in Alamogordo, New Mexico, near the White Sands missile range to spy on the Army. This was the start of electronics intelligence (ELINT) as a concerted effort in the Air Force.

Maybe Gen. Watson's guy's were "spying" on the Army guy's taking the day off when they launched that MOGUL Train.

In any case we have a much different picture than what we are told by the Air Force in Case Closed.

Air Force News Special Report
Roswell Report: Case Closed

The 1994 Air Force report concluded that the predecessor to the U.S. Air Force, the U.S. Army Air Forces, recovered debris from an Army Air Forces balloon-borne research project code named MOGUL. Records located describing research carried out under the MOGUL project, most of which were never classified (and publicly available) were collected, provided to GAO, and published in one volume for ease of access for the general public.

The conclusions are:

Air Force activities which occurred over a period of many years have been consolidated and are now represented to have occurred in two or three days in July 1947.

"Aliens" observed in the New Mexico desert were actually anthropomorphic test dummies that were carried aloft by U.S. Air Force high altitude balloons for scientific research.

The "unusual" military activities in the New Mexico desert were high altitude research balloon launch and recovery operations. Reports of military units that always seemed to arrive shortly after the crash of a flying saucer to retrieve the saucer and "crew," were actually accurate descriptions of Air Force personnel engaged in anthropomorphic dummy recovery operations.

Claims of "alien bodies" at the Roswell Army Air Field hospital were most likely a combination of two separate incidents:

) a 1956 KC-97 aircraft accident in which 11 Air Force members lost their lives; and,
) a 1959 manned balloon mishap in which two Air Force pilots were injured

Notice the addmission, " Reports of military units that always seemed to arrive shortly after the crash of a flying saucer to retrieve the saucer and "crew,".

This was explained by " Air Force personnel engaged in anthropomorphic dummy recovery operations". However, these test's didn't happen until the '50's. Yet there was that "Team" from Wright Field in the Alamogordo Hotel.

[edit on 23-2-2006 by lost_shaman]

posted on Feb, 27 2006 @ 05:40 AM
I have been doing more research and I have found some more potentially fascinating evidence that seems show that CIC agents were directly involved in the Balloon Cover Operation.

David Rudiak's research is a must read!

How the Military Debunked the Saucers After Roswell

Although many are familiar with the photos of the balloon and radar target in Gen. Ramey's office at Fort Worth, Texas, few are aware of other military-related demonstrations that followed immediately afterwards. Weather balloons and assorted paraphernalia, particularly radar targets, were trotted out as the explanation for the nationwide flying saucer reports. In retrospect, these demonstrations were clearly part of the "concentrated campaign to stop the rumors."

The follow-up debunking campaign using weather balloons was suggested in the last line of the Ramey message. The end of the Ramey message reads very close to the following:





Look at some of the links to counter intelligence and the personalities involved!

>There are other examples of CI people who had regular "day
>jobs", but were also serving in a CI capacity. Take the case of
>Larry Dyvad, associated with Project Mogul, supposedly as a
>chase pilot for the balloon flights. That was his "day job." But
>the day after the Roswell base press release, he was part of a
>team at Alamogordo debunking Roswell and flying saucers using
>weather balloons and radar targets (one of a number of such
>demonstrations incidentally). See:


>This even came up in the Air Force Roswell report in the
>interviews with Charles Moore and Col. Albert Trakowski by Lt.
>James McAndrew. Given Dyvad's involvement with the Alamogordo
>demonstration, they speculated that he was secretly with CI.

They key here is that they speculate... there is nothing to
confirm that. Has anyone attempted to check his record to find
out if he had the real training in CI?

>Additional evidence of this comes from a 1951 document.
>Trakowski's replacement as Mogul Project Officer was Col. Edward
>Doty, who we know today from multiple documents, was really an
>AFOSI officer (i.e., Air Force counterintelligence) and also in
>charge of UFO investigations at Holloman AFB, Alamogordo. Both
>Doty and Dyvad took a UFO report from a radar station near
>Corona, N.M. in 1951. A discussion of this and the document can
>be viewed at:

>It is also noteworthy that the Air Force included a 1959 letter
>from Doty to the Holloman base historian (Appendix 4 to McAndrew
>section), detailing his involvement with the balloon projects at
>Alamogordo starting in January 1948, but telling the historian
>nothing at all about being with AFOSI or being the base UFO

You'll see that Cpt. Lawrence H. Dyvad is pictured in the July 9, 1947 Balloon demonstration for the Press at Alamogordo, NM.

There is evidence that Cpt. Lawrence H. Dyvad ( Alamogordo , NM balloon launch for the Press July 9, 1947 ) is an Intelligence officer along with Maj. Edward Doty. See the July 11 , 1951 document at the bottom of the page here Maj. Ed Doty-Dyvad UFO Report.

Concerning the initial announcement, "RAAF Captures Flying Disc," research failed to locate any documented evidence as to why that statement was made. However, on July 10, 1947, following the Ramey press conference, the Alamogordo News published an article with photographs demonstrating multiple balloons and targets at the same location as the NYU group operated from at Alamogordo AAF. Professor Moore expressed surprise at seeing this since his, was the only balloon test group in the area. He stated, "It appears that there was some type of umbrella cover story to protect our work with Mogul "

Also notice that Maj. Edward Doty replaces Col. Albert Trakowski as Mogul Project Officer.

Maj. Edward Doty happens to be the Uncle of the by now infamous Rick Doty.

Note that Dr. Charles Moore and Col. Albert Trakowski are key to the Air Force Roswell report , MOGUL Balloon explanation.

Remember Col. Albert Trakowski is Maj. Edward Doty's predecessor.

The interview with Colonel Trakowski (Atch 23-24) also proved valuable information. Trakowski provided specific details on Project Mogul and described how the security for the program was set up, as he was formerly the TOP SECRET Control Officer for the program. He further related that many of the original radar targets that were produced around the end of World War II were fabricated by toy or novelty companies using a purplish-pink tape with flower and heart symbols on it. Trakowski also recounted a conversation that he had with his friend, and superior military officer in his chain of command, Colonel Marcellus Duffy, in July, 1947. Duffy, formerly had Trakowski's position on Mogul, but had subsequently been transferred to Wright Field. He stated: ."..Colonel Duffy called me on the telephone from Wright Field and gave me a story about a fellow that had come in from New Mexico, woke him up in the middle of the night or some such thing with a handful of debris, and wanted him, Colonel Duffy, to identify it. ... He just said 'it sure looks like some of the stuff you've been launching at Alamogordo and he described it, and I said 'yes, I think it is.' Certainly Colonel Duffy knew enough about radar targets, radiosondes, balloon-borne weather devices. He was intimately familiar with all that apparatus."

Colonel Trakowski recounts for Air Force investigators that Colonel Duffy called him from Wright Field.

Why would Colonel Duffy , at Wright Field , be bothered by a guy who found a RAWIN target in New Mexico when they had been popping up for days just miles from Wright Field?

Or why would a cover for MOGUL Balloons be staged at the staging area for MOGUL Balloon launches?

[edit on 27-2-2006 by lost_shaman]

posted on Dec, 29 2011 @ 09:23 AM
This is a great thread, filled with a great deal of important and well-detailed information.

I would love to see "new life" breathed into it!

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