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Roswell counter-intelligence Operation?

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posted on Nov, 16 2005 @ 09:14 PM
There are so many different schools of thought about the Roswell Incident.

However, I have always felt that if something did happen at Roswell the truth would be borne out by the actions of Wright Field.

Very little is known about the actions of Wright Field during this time frame.

So I decided I would delve as deep as I could into the Intelligence Operations and activities of Wright Field.

Being the younger naive non-Military Civvy that I am , this is actually quite difficult. So I decided just to forget everything I thought I knew and learn about the basic History of Air Technical Intelligence.

I won't bore you to death with all of that , but some interesting Facts and seemingly strange coincidences are abundant.

Here are a couple of Basic Air Technical Intelligence History links.


Air Technical Intelligence

This what ATI history tells us.

1920 - Technical Data Section (TDS) ( Wright Field ).

1942 - TDS Becomes the Technical Data Laboratory (TDL).

1 July 1945 - TDL becomes T-2 Intelligence.

July 1947 - T-2 opens an office to Study UFOs.

July 1947 - T-2 Study articulates a three-fold Mission for air technical intelligence:

1. Insure the prevention of strategic, tactical or technological surprise from any source.

2. Provide intelligence required for command decisions and counsel upon air preparedness and air operations.

3. Insure appropriate counter-intelligence measures.

Its very important to know this information when looking at the events in Roswell.

If anything ever "Crashed" it would be the people at Wright Field , specifically T-2, who would handle the incident.

Its also noteworthy here for me to mention that the GAO Roswell Inquiry examined no Documents from T-2.

Here is the Meat...

While I'm researching ATI History , I happen across the Circleville UFO events and right there on the Front Page of the July 6, Columbus (Ohio) Sunday Dispatch, is a woman holding a Rawin Target just like the one in the photo's taken a Gen. Ramey's Office.

Big Deal right?

Well Wright Field is fresh on my mind and I'm thinking Ohio huh?

So I go to Goggle Maps and look and yes ! Circleville is about 60 Miles or so downwind from Wright Field!

Reading on in the News Papers from Ohio , there is not only one Rawin Target downwind from Wright Field that is making the Papers as being misidentified as a " Crashed Disc" , but three.

One more near Circleville and another one in South Bloomfield both on July 8, 1947 . South Bloomfield is 15 miles or so North of Circleville. All three of these "Discs" Rawin Targets are downwind from Wright Field.

Altogether there are Four Rawin Targets in the News within 48 hours , 3 Downwind from Wright Field and one in Gen. Ramey's Office that kills the Roswell Story for the next thirty years or so.

We know that Lt. Col. DuBose later told Roswell investigators that the balloon explanation was staged.

The Air Force has admitted that the Rawin target in Ramey's Office is a cover story.

And I'm thinking to myself that this looks just like " appropriate counter-intelligence measures " to me.

And when I put two and two together it seems like the stage had been set by Wright Field who had three of what appears to be their very own Rawin Targets in the local Ohio Papers within 48 hours of the Ramey Office Press Conference.

Coincidence or Counter-Intelligence ?

Anyway's just bouncing this idea around my head.

[edit on 16-11-2005 by lost_shaman]

posted on Nov, 16 2005 @ 09:26 PM
So, this states that the same cover-up was used in more than one UFO event? I found it a bit shabby to follow. My bad. Just need a tad of clarification

Good find though mate, makes for some interesting reading, hope to hear more from ya.

[edit on 16-11-2005 by AussieNutter]

posted on Nov, 16 2005 @ 09:48 PM
Sorry for that , but you had it right the first time.

I am saying that it looks like T-2 was setting up the Rawin target explaination for Roswell at least by July 5, 1947.

Because there are 4 Rawin targets in the News between July 6 - 8 .

Three are just downwind from Wright Field and one is on the floor in Gen. Ramey's Office.

[edit on 16-11-2005 by lost_shaman]

posted on Nov, 16 2005 @ 10:22 PM
The Air Force has run several counter-intelligence ops regarding Roswell. There was the Bennewitz Affair, the original cover story, Blue Book, and of course, their release of the publication "Roswell:Case Closed." that amounted to a bunch of disinfo and nonsense.

And then of course, there was the history channel about the whole Mogul balloon debacle.

posted on Nov, 17 2005 @ 12:31 AM
"I am saying that it looks like T-2 was setting up the Rawin target explaination for Roswell at least by July 5, 1947" == l_s

Wow, even Randle and Schmitt in "UFO Crash at Roswell" did not take the Circleville thing this far. I cant wait to hear
how John Titor paid the Wright folks a visit and told them to get prepared to cover up the forthcomming Roswell event.
I gotta hand it to ya, sounds like you are going where none have gone before.
(Just kidding with ya, but it looks like you are the navigator here, so you have a right to know where we are.)

"We know that Lt. Col. DuBose later told Roswell investigators that the balloon explanation was staged.
The Air Force has admitted that the Rawin target in Ramey's Office is a cover story." == l_s

Depends on how accurate the investigators do their quoting. It was Col Dubose who used the term "cover story".
In the military, the term "cover story" has a very specific meaning and does not involve wrong-doing. A cover-up
which many folks like to translate this to is very different, and against the rules.

"that amounted to a bunch of disinfo and nonsense" == skadi

There are other possibilities on Roswell. If the USAF version is correct, where is the bunch of disinfo and nonsense ?

posted on Nov, 17 2005 @ 01:42 AM
Titor huh? hehe That cracked me up!

Here is a visual aid to help everyone see where Wright Field is located and the Proximity to the 3 Rawin targets.

[edit on 17-11-2005 by lost_shaman]

posted on Nov, 17 2005 @ 12:39 PM
In July 1947 Colonel Frank T. McCoy was the director of T-2 Intelligence at Wright Field.

Air technical Intelligence operations in the Pacific actually preceded those in Europe. As the war progressed they received the full support of General MacArthur, who furnished the ATI personnel with personally signed letters authorizing them to "Take complete charge of all enemy crashed or captured aircraft or personnel as early as possible after the crash."

The letters ordered armed forces in the area to provide necessary transportation and assistance to ATI personnel without further authorization from any headquarters.

Early in 1942, a "Materiel Section" for air technical intelligence analysis purposes was established at Melbourne, Australia. Captain Frank T. McCoy and TSgt Francis Williams (the latter now with FTD) were responsible for its organization.

Pacific air technical Intelligence solved many problems. One was the difficulty encountered in communications when identifying Japanese aircraft. Captain McCoy and TSgt Williams began assigning code names such as Frank, Betty, Francis, Zeke, and Nate - feminine names for bombers and masculine names for fighters and observation planes. These were derivatives of their own names and those of personal friends - Frank (Captain McCoy), Francis (TSgt Williams), Ray (Captain Ray W. McDuffey, formerly with ATIC), Nell (Mrs. McDuffey), etc. The procedure of assigning proper names as code names was officially adopted, and is still being used to identify Soviet aircraft.

In October 1944, a Technical Air Intelligence Unit (TAIU) was formed and attached to the Far East Air Forces. Frank McCoy, by then a Lt Colonel, was designated Officer-in-Charge. Under his direction, TAIU took possession and control of all captured Japanese aircraft and equipment in the Pacific Theater.

Colonel McCoy was selected to head the Air Document Research Center in London. In December 1945, this operation was transferred to T-2, Wright Field.

Col. Frank McCoy was shortly thereafter named the Director of T-2 Intelligence.

As you can see from his history in both theaters of WWII , he and his units were well experienced in "Crash Retrieval".

And by the Fall of '47 all non-intelligence functions of T-2 are stripped away leaving T-2 strictly in the Intelligence business.

[edit on 17-11-2005 by lost_shaman]

posted on Nov, 18 2005 @ 02:54 AM
"that amounted to a bunch of disinfo and nonsense" == skadi

There are other possibilities on Roswell. If the USAF version is correct, where is the bunch of disinfo and nonsense ?

But the USAF version is not correct. Thats why its a bunch of disinfo.

I am not going to explain why here, because at the very top of this forum. Gazrok has already debunked the Air Force Project Mogul cover story in a most thorough fashion. Id simply be repeating the already excellent job he has done.

Ill even give you the link.

Gazroks Roswellian Wonder Almanac

posted on Nov, 18 2005 @ 05:41 AM


If the USAF version is correct, where is the bunch of disinfo and nonsense?

I thought I showed with my Visual Aid that the " disinfo & nonsense " was located within a 10 -15 mile radius of Circleville , 55- 70 miles East of Wright Field.

Anyone from the area should be able to give us some insight .

[edit on 18-11-2005 by lost_shaman]

posted on Nov, 19 2005 @ 10:46 AM
Am I the only person who finds the circumstantial evidence compelling?

I mean 4 RAWIN Targets in the News in 48 hours.

Three of them just downwind from Wright Field and the other one near Roswell Army Air Field in New Mexico that we have been debating for 30+ years.

The three near Wright Field were posed for pictures and quickly identified by the Ranchers that found them or the Sheriff's Office and News Paper Offices that received them.

In the Roswell Incident we know that a Rawin Target was not what was actually found , yet it was used in the Cover Story.

In Gen. Ramey's Office we can clearly see in the Photo's that a turn apart Rawin target is on the floor of the Office.

I think the circumstantial evidence shows that the RAWIN target " Weather Balloon " explanation for UFO's and indeed Roswell was invented and perpetrated by T-2 Intelligence at Wright Field.

Wright Field had RAWIN targets and launched them twice daily like every other one of the 87 U.S. Bases that used RAWIN targets at the time.

Do you guys remember in the 90's I think '94 when they rolled out that little wooden Crate at Wright Field and claimed it was "Debris " from Roswell?

When they opened the Crate in front of a flock of eager Reporters and there was a neatly folded RAWIN Target just like in the Roswell and Circleville pictures .

That in all likelihood could have just as easily been one of the Three Rawin Targets from Ohio. Or just one that got stuffed into a crate since Wright Field had and used RAWIN targets.

We all know "Weather Balloons" became the Number One preferred explanation for UFO's after July 1947.

"Weather Balloons" were often cited as the only explanation for hundreds of Blue Book UFO sightings.

And even today its one of the most common explanations given for UFO sightings.

[edit on 19-11-2005 by lost_shaman]

posted on Nov, 21 2005 @ 09:26 AM
I seriously am not an expert on the Roswell Incident or the Military.

I know there are people on the Board that know more about these subjects than I do.

It looks to me that maybe I'm on to something.

Does anyone see any major flaws here in my reasoning or something I'm overlooking?

posted on Jan, 6 2006 @ 01:21 PM
More supporting Info.

Thanks to Grant Cameron's wonderful site

Here is an omission from Air Force Brigadier General Arthur E. Exon who was the commander of Wright Patterson Air Force base from August 1, 1964 through to December 20, 1965.

" I know that at the went to General Ramey...and he along with the people out at Roswell decided to change the story while they got their act together and got the information into the Pentagon and into the President."

According to the GAO report , the Bulk of incoming and outgoing messages at RAAF was between RAAF and Wright Field.

A Wright Patterson Base Historian told George Filer that Truman sent out award letters to the Wright Field Base Commander.

Obviously you don't get award letters unless you were involved , and Roswell was nothing but a RAWIN RADAR target right?

Time line

As nightwing mentioned Titor earlier , I thought I'd address the issue of the time line for Wright Field to have been involved.

Interplanetary Phenomenon Unit Field Order, 4 July 1947

If this document is legitimate , it would indicate that the Military had been involved with or had knowledge of the events taking place in New Mexico at least by July, 3 1947. This would give Wright Field at least 2 days to get the first RAWIN Target in the Circleville Paper on July, 5 1947.

Directive to General Twining by Eisenhower, 8 July 1947

This document , if taken to be legitimate , is a directive to Twinning from Eisenhower to go to New Mexico and co-ordinate efforts there and to visit Sandia AEC and prepare an estimate of the Situation. I include this document because it shows the high level of Intelligence interests involved as the recipients of the copies of this directive are listed as ...

1. Chief of Staff to the Commander in Chief of the Armed Services
2. Military Aide to the President
3. Director , Office of Emergency Management
4. Director of Central Intelligence Group
5. Director of Intelligence , USA
6. Director of Intelligence , USAAF
7. Director , Office of Naval Intelligence
8. Director , Joint Intelligence Objectives Agency
9. Joint Intelligence Committee
10. Director , Armed Forces Special weapons Project

Also , Flight logs show that Twinning went on this trip on July, 7 1947.

[edit on 6-1-2006 by lost_shaman]

posted on Jan, 6 2006 @ 03:36 PM

July 1947 - T-2 opens an office to Study UFOs.

Hmm...interesting timing, don't you think, if after all, all that crashed at Roswell was a Mogul balloon....
Coincidence? I seriously doubt it....

Here's some more info on Exon... I briefly mentioned him in the Roswell threads...

[edit on 6-1-2006 by Gazrok]

posted on Jan, 7 2006 @ 01:06 AM

Originally posted by Gazrok

" July 1947 - T-2 Opens an Office to Study UFOs." ( Wright Field, Ohio )

Hmm...interesting timing, don't you think, if after all, all that crashed at Roswell was a Mogul balloon....
Coincidence? I seriously doubt it....

Yes! I think its an amazing coincidence! That and the 3 Rawin balloons in the Papers near Wright Field just before Gen. Ramey debunking Roswell with a Rawinsonde Weather Balloon.

You'd be surprised to know how many people are unaware of T -2 or the UFO Office being opened in July '47, even though I quote it straight from an Air Force endorsed History summary.

Air Force endorsed - Air Technical Intelligence History Link - see T-2 UFO Office reference.

[edit on 7-1-2006 by lost_shaman]

posted on Jan, 7 2006 @ 03:22 AM
you guys are so bad for me!!! lol i will never be normal agian Thanks guys!
your continued efforts further push me into that perception of a universe chalk full of alien life and the realization that they are all around us, right now even - will my friends ever consider me sane? probably not
which is a good thing , btw hehe

i cant help but be amazed by the research and intelligence put into this!

looks like someones been doing their homework hehe

do i think its amazing how 4 RAWIN Targets were in the News in 48 hours.
YES, its a huge CLUE!

and then all these events taking place at the base; its just pretty evident whats going on if you look at this, more Clues!

the circumstancial evidence is overwhelming

if u can just look at the research on this subject on this board; and just ask questions and consider the different possible scenarios

you will be looking for UFOs in the sky too, i bet

u know in this subject *my favorite subject* , there is so much hogwash and hooplah and plain BS that even I can become sick of it

notice why ive not been around this particular forum much lately? its because so many of the threads here are utter nonsense when it comes to diligent research and scientific analysis ; and logical debate

but finally , finally we have a thread that is worth some deep reading; and attention

lost_shaman, i thank you deeply for your contributions at keeping this forum alive with some clear thinking
with info like this thread; ill be coming back tomorrow and the next day and days after that, in a frenzy to read more and more
good work lostshaman, you rock

as they say around here these days

Ive got your back

((forgive my inconsistant manner of speech tonite; im fairly tired as its late and , well you get the picture , perhaps tomorrow during the day i can communicate more effectively ))

you know what im trying to say with all this tho; good work, keep digging and ill keep inspecting your artifacts and add my input

posted on Jan, 7 2006 @ 03:33 AM

Originally posted by lost_shaman

even though I quote it straight from an Air Force endorsed History summary.

Air Force endorsed - Air Technical Intelligence History Link - see T-2 UFO Office reference.

[edit on 7-1-2006 by lost_shaman]

if only other researchers were so clever

if we are willing to actually read ; we can really begin to see the bigger picture, and using the governments own documents as collabrative evidence is the key to unlocking the door to this mystery

what a paper trail they left; i suppose no ones perfect; and no cover-up is perfect either

best thing about using gov't sources? it builds a solid case , that becomes ever more difficult to contest

gj lost

posted on Jan, 7 2006 @ 03:41 AM
in the article lost linked above; i was reading thru it; and i came across this passage (*its in there if u look for it*

"With the build up in Vietnam, the Air Force closed its UFO investigations. From 1947 through 1969, FTD and its predecessor organizations studied 12,618 reported sightings. Of these, 701 remained unexplained when Project Blue Book closed. A 1968 report concluded that:

1. No unidentified flying object reported, investigated, and evaluated by the Air Force has ever given any indication of threat to our national security.

2. There has been no evidence submitted to or discovered by the Air Force that sightings categorized as UNIDENTIFIED represent technological developments or principles beyond the range of present-day scientific knowledge.

3. There has been no evidence indicating that sightings categorized as UNIDENTIFIED are extraterrestrial vehicles.

Lets take a very close look at number 2 in particular

it said none of the unexplained sightings represent technology thats beyond present day scientific knowledge

What?? did i read it wrong or did they type it out wrong?

are they saying we can actually create things that do this?
tell me im just really sleepy and reading this all wrong

just seems like they are actually saying these things are within our grasp of creating; isnt that weird? im confused actually; this isnt making sense

anyone wanna clarify and help me understand what they mean by this statement in number 2?? seems quite strange to me


posted on Jan, 10 2006 @ 08:31 PM
Thanks muzzleflash.

Here is more you may find interesting.


During the late 1940s, the Army began testing captured, German V-2 missiles at White Sands, New Mexico. The question was asked of General Watson, "What's the Army doing at White Sands?" Since the question came from a high level, he decided to find out. To gather the information, General Watson decided to see what information could be obtained using electronic surveillance. After getting his plan approved by J. Edgar Hoover, the Federal Bureau of Investigation director, and General Nathan Twining, the Air Force Chief of Staff, General Watson put a crew in a hotel in Alamogordo, New Mexico, near the White Sands missile range to spy on the Army. This was the start of electronics intelligence (ELINT) as a concerted effort in the Air Force.

T-2 was not simply a group of Techies sitting around at Wright Field.

Another notable ATIC project during Watson's second tour was the continuing study of unidentified flying object (UFO) sightings. Perhaps of greatest note, the center published Blue Book Special Report Number 14 in May 1955. This document reported on a computerized study of the nearly 4,000 UFO sighting reports received by ATIC. Battelle did the computer analysis and prepared the report which consisted, mostly, of statistical tables. The study concluded that there was no evidence that extraterrestrial craft had visited the earth and that with better information all of the sightings could be explained. Special Report 14, however, also included summaries of the best of the unexplained reports that had been received. In the three months following the 4 October 1957 Sputnik I launch, the center received 701 UFO sighting reports.

The UFO study commemorated its tenth anniversary in 1957 with an extensive USAF publicity campaign. ATIC also worked with the Armstrong Circle Theater to produce the television show, "Enigma of the Skies." Captain George Gregory, head of Project Blue Book from 1956-1958, produced the basic script for the one-hour program.

Battelle is a Private Corporation , but they have clear ties to ATI.

What TID/ATIC also needed, General Watson believed, was a "gold mine" in technology. Accordingly, in 1950 he contacted Dr Clyde Williams at the Battelle Corporation (now, Battelle Memorial Laboratories) in Columbus, Ohio, to see if they would be willing to work under contract for ATIC. The ATIC commander told Dr Williams that he needed technological and scientific information and asked if Battelle had any Russians in the work force. General Watson also needed to know whether there was a place within the corporation that could be turned into a secure compartment. General Watson asked the Secretary of the Air Force for Air, Harold Talbot, for $20 million for a contract with Battelle to provide technical and scientific data on the Russians. This was the start of Project Stork, later called White Stork and Have Stork.

Battelle, one of the foremost metallurgical institutes in the nation, had people who spoke Russian and Russian documents; they also found some documents at Ohio State University. Gus Simpson from ATIC ran the group at Battelle. Some folks at ATIC were offended that the work went to a private contractor, but Watson just did not have the people to do the work and did not have Russian linguists. Battelle helped ATIC evaluate the MiG-15 components brought to the United States in 1951.

Battelle, one of the foremost metallurgical institutes in the nation, involved in UFO studies working for ATIC.

posted on Feb, 20 2006 @ 12:54 AM
i can't say it as well as a couple of posts back said.very compelling stuff
this is the first thread i am going to when i log on .thanks

posted on Feb, 21 2006 @ 12:58 AM
Thanks tigerla5.

Well I just came across this Army Time line for White Sands Missile Range and according to them the date of the Roswell incident was July 2, 1947.

This gives plenty of time for the cover up to happen and for the story of the three other RAWIN targets to make the Ohio papers.

It gives 72 hours to figure out that they are going to say these are just balsa wood and tinfoil RAWIN targets and 72 hours to get some into the Papers before Ramey and Marcel are posing for pictures with a RAWIN target in Ramey's office on July 8 , 1947.

1947 Jan. 23 - First auto pilot system used on a rocket

March 7 - Naval Research Lab team led by John Mengel puts camera onboard V-2 that achieved 100-mile altitude and brings back first "space" photos of earth

March 16 - GAPA (toothpick maker) missile launched at Holloman

May 22 - First Corporal "E" flight from LC33

May 29 - Missile 0 of Hermes series crashes outside Juarez

June 4 - First balloon launch from Holloman AFB

July 2 - Secret Air Force balloon crashes near Roswell, N.M. -- mistaken for UFO

Nov. 24 - First of Navy's Aerobee rockets launched -- reaches 34.7 miles altitude

Also, note that the Navy had a presence at White Sands.

So the Air Force , the F.B.I , the Army , and Navy all were present in New Mexico during this time frame.

One thing I not yet seen, is Navy UFO documents. You'll note that White Sands has a UFO History over the years. Not only in the time frame of 1947.

[edit on 21-2-2006 by lost_shaman]

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