Billy Meier called the New Nostradamus!?!?

In the process of compiling info for a Horn tribute website i came across
nexus
I'll give you the abbreviated version. I was gonna do a qoute/refute or 2 but there were just so many fallacies and misrepresentations that I decided to just post the link.
My time is also occupied with my own current UFO sighting so dont expect "full disclosure" till 2006.

Originally posted by 8Michael12
And it does seem that they will also miss no opportunity to not only assail Meier but, in an odd mixture of righteous indignation and hubris, the skeptics will actually complain that while he must be a false prophet it was a terrible thing that he didn't warn them/us of 9/11 in time, so that all those lives could have been saved, including those of friends known to them!

Go ahead and twist it some more. What I said was IF Meier, and yourself were so aware of such an attack coming at that time, why were you not doing everything in your power to make it know. You didnt.

Why?

Because you and Meier didnt know a damned thing. Yet you will use the most heinous mass murder in history to further you own agenda. You sicken me.

All this prophet Meier stuff reminds me of words written longer ago then I care to admit, by a group out of Britian called Iron Maiden:

"Another prophet of disaster, who says this ship is lost;
another prophet of disaster, leaving you to count the cost.
Taunting us with visions; afflicting us with fear;
predicting war for millions, in the hope that one appears."

These "predated" discoveries, or catastrophic events never seem to be mentioned by Meier or his supporters til after the fact. I personally believe based on what I've seen from them, and some interaction that at least some of them seem to wish for such events to happen to somehow prove their New Age Messiah to be right, and therefore exactly what he claims to be.

I could claim there's going to be a war in Brazil. With no date attached, no specific information other then "there will be horrid deaths of many", at some point knowing human nature, there may well be some such event. Any death in a war is horrid, more then 2 deaths...more horrid...you take it from there.

Did I predict it? No, I simply state what human history has told us can happen for a myriad of reasons at any time. My guess is Brazil will be there for a looooong time. Just as Paris will be.

9/11 (as in a terrorist attack)was "predicted" for years before it actually happened, by political analysts and military scholars. We didnt know where or when, but many watchdogs warned us about the Taliban, and terrorists. Meier could have easily picked that up. It's just that simple. Ike42 has written a paper that details other such instances, and it's worth a read to finally put your questions about "prophet Meier" to bed.
www.iigwest.com...

Make no mistake about it, the Meier believers such as Horn will continue exactly whats transpired here when faced with the hard questions, or data saying the opposite of their contention. This is 100% typical. As Cowboy said, these people jump up after a pounding and tell you they "won".

You have to stay the course if youre going to go head to head with any of them...otherwise you leave, and they claim you "left with your tail between your legs". It's laughable. I mean it, it really is.

Michael, you underestimate the ATS forum. It's the #1 UFO message board on the internet...read by many more then you'd care to know about. Your attempt to downplay the importance of what you've said here and the belittling of ATS as a forum not widely read makes me laugh...you really have no clue.

Cowboy- Since youre a published author, you might know the answer to this question: Awhile back Horn was on C2C Radio show, and said that "published" predictions by Meier were in books dated far before the dates they occured. A woman then called and said that publishers of that book can put any year in a book they want to for the publish date. If my memory serves me right Horn's answer to that was something like: "Yes but that book would be admissible evidence in a court". There was no addressing the woman's statement, and the topic was immediately changed. Is it true that they can put a date in of their own choosing? I believe the woman's stance was that just because the date was say...1985, that thats not saying the predictions therein were made before then, thats the book might have been published, in reality in 1990 for example, which might have been after the fact of a prediction. Can you give any insight into that?

You all can bet your lives that when Horn talks to his fellow disciples about this thread it'll be about how he trashed us all and made us cry, how he set us straight and had us twisting in the wind. Talk about projection.

At least those "solitary few" of us here on ATS will always know the truth.

Everybody have a good weekend, and Happy New Year.

Hi Michael,

I just came across your web site by accident today and read a great deal of it, although not all of it. It has left me with a few questions I hope you can answer for me.

1) If these photos are "real", (meaning actual transportation vehicles of an alien race), how can you be so sure that they are being driven by aliens and not human beings who may have captured these vehicles from an alien race? Since you stated most of the UFO's seen on earth have been created by man, how can you be sure that these pictured craft aren't man made?

2) Couldn't a government agency be creating a hoax to instill fear in other people and other governments about a doomsday they are likely to create through (an opposing goverment) aggressiveness, hostility, and a wish to control the world?

3) Didn't you report on your web site that these Plejaren aliens look very much like the rest of humanity on earth? How do we know that they are not just human beings pretending to be Plejarens?

4) Could you explain why the Plejarens explain so much to one individual which only involves one language? If they truly wanted to help planet earth and humanity, why wouldn't they at least notify one representative in each country, in each countries language, to make sure that there is no misinterpretation in translation?

5) Correct me if I am wrong, but did you state that these Plejarens have predicted that the the USA would be divided into five different parts? Can you elaborate on this?

6) Other than wars and rumors of wars, have the Plejarens had much to say about humanity on a positive note? It doesn't sound as if they hold out much hope for humanity.

7) Were you somehow "chosen" to translate these messages into English?

8) Some web sites take the view that some governments have learned how to control the weather (as in hurricanes, etc.), earthquakes, volcanoes, etc. as a type of warfare against neighboring enemies. Have the Plejarens made any comments regarding this?

9) Have the Plejarens given Billy Meier any idea what their views are on time travel?

That is enough questions for now. Your help on this is greatly appreciated.

PassionWink

As Cowboy pointed out, something can be said about Meier's prophecies. In the link he provided the 'Henoch Prophecies' by Meier can be read. Here's a relevant excerpt of that article;
( www.nexusmagazine.com... )

Wars and devastation in Europe and North America
"Yet Russia will not rest and will attack Scandinavia, and in doing so will embroil all of Europe. And months before that, a terrible tornado will have swept across northern Europe, causing great devastation and destruction. It must still be stated that the Russian attack will occur during the summer, in fact, starting from Arhangelsk. Denmark will not be dragged into the war, due to the insignificance of this country. Yet Russia will not be satisfied with this action of war, as her will for expansion will be ravenous. And consequently Russia will launch a military attack against Iran and Turkey and will conquer these two countries in bloody fighting, causing enormous destruction.
In the Russian expansionist mentality will also be included the drive to gain control of the Middle Eastern oil deposits as well as to gain control of the southeastern region of Europe. Therefore, she will also invade the Balkans and conquer these countries there in enormous battles, causing ruthless and devastating destruction with many deaths."

"This will be at the time that tremendous natural disasters will hit Italy and its people, causing severe hardship. But this will also be at the time when Vesuvius could become active again and could spread tremendous havoc. At the same time, a war will shake Italy and claim many human lives as well as cause great destruction."

"Destruction of war will descend on the northern countries as strong military forces will invade them from the East and will pillage and murder as well as use bombs and missiles, like hail coming down, and hitherto unknown weapons of laser- and computer-controlled types which will destroy and annihilate everything, whereby the first target will be Hungary and after that will follow Austria and northern Italy. Switzerland will also be severely affected, but will not be the actual target; this will be France and Spain. However, the main objective of the aggressors will be to bring all of Europe under their military control, and for that purpose France will be selected to be the headquarters.
France will not only be invaded by the aggressors from the outside, but will also be conquered from within as a result of collaborative forces and other forces. This can be envisioned as being the many foreigners of a different religion living in France at that time, and specifically Islam, which will be this force working from within. Once France has fallen, a war to conquer Spain and England will take place. Subsequently, an alliance with the forces of the aggressors will be formed, which will invade Scandinavia."

"For all these French-based military operations, the weapons of mass destruction stored in the arsenals of France will be used and cause evil devastation, destruction and annihilation. The aggressors from the East will force the French Army to join their military forces and lead a war of conquest against the northern countries of Europe, invading and conquering Sweden and Norway. Subsequently, these northern countries will be annexed by Russia. Military forces will also attack Finland, whereby many will be killed and an enormous destruction will be caused."

"At the same time, as a civil war rages in Germany, an enormously bloody revolution will break out in England which will claim more lives than will be claimed by the civil war in Germany. And because England and Ireland have been at war for a long time already, due to the IRA and the police and military forces of England, the result will be (because this feud will continue up to that time) that this revolution will spread out to all of Ireland, especially affecting Northern Ireland. Many lives will be lost during a civil war in Wales, where differences between various parties will arise before the Third World War. Welsh and English forces will clash especially near Cymru, and claim many lives and cause great destruction."

"But death, destruction and annihilation will not only rage in Europe but also in America, where much suffering will have to be endured and many deaths as well as destruction and annihilation will be. America and Russia will have the most terrible weapons of mass destruction at their disposal—a fact which is already the case to a certain extent today—and will clash with violent force against each other at that time of conflict, whereby Canada will also be dragged into this conflict. The source of this conflict will substantiate the Russian attack on the American State of Alaska and against Canada.
This conflict will result in mass killings of human beings as well as devastating destruction, annihilation and epidemics, etc., which mankind of Earth will never have seen and experienced up to that time. Not only nuclear, biological and chemical weapons will be used en masse, but also enormously deadly systems of computer-controlled weapons that are only in the beginning stages of development today, or will be invented and constructed during the third millennium."


If I'm not mistaken these prophecies were written in the 1980s, and it shows since apparently Russia will invade Scandinavia, the rest of Europe, Iran and Turkey. Nowdays such a military invasion on several fronts seems extremely unlikely due to the decay of the Russian military, they are in no position at this moment to carry out an attack as displayed above. I get the impression that the prophecies above are written in the cold war mindset when all the communist countries together were a force to be reckoned with. Despite the war-scenarios in the prophecies, there are simultaniously freak weather incidents or natural catastrophies and civil wars among various nations that will contribute to the decline of the western worlds.

More on this later...

To follow up (briefly), Mr Horn said this on the first page of this thread;

"I would like to make a general reply to the questions raised here since the interview on WTOP was with me. First, the reason that the interview was conducted was that Meier predicted the unrest, arson and riots in France (and the fact that it would be the inhabitants of a diffferent religion, "specifically Islam") on two occasions. The first was in 1981, and the second in 1987. I first read the 1981 prediction in 1986 and the ones from 1987 (which also contained the forewarning re the WTC) in 2002."

Here is the relevant portion of the 'Henoch Prophecies';

"France will not only be invaded by the aggressors from the outside, but will also be conquered from within as a result of collaborative forces and other forces. This can be envisioned as being the many foreigners of a different religion living in France at that time, and specifically Islam, which will be this force working from within. Once France has fallen, a war to conquer Spain and England will take place. Subsequently, an alliance with the forces of the aggressors will be formed, which will invade Scandinavia."

Now, do these two excerpts allign themselves perfectly in every way?

Happy New Year.

The problems with Billys prophecies is that no specififc dates are given just vague references to the late 20th century and third millenium. What I found interesting about the Nexus article is the many contradictions contained within. And most of those are in the first third. They virtually tumble all over each other.
JR- I got that fighter analogy from you as I noted in my post. And thanks for that cause certainly applies here.
Now I'm no publisher just an author so I dont know if I can answer your question but I will tell you what I know.
When you look at the copyright page you may find several dates as in the one I'm currently reading. Different publishers have different ways of doing this. Some may simply post the date of original publication. Depending on whether it is hard cover or paperback. Some will put both. Some use the copyright date as the date they recieve their ISBN #(the date its available for sale). Since some authors could spend years trying to get something published the copyright has nothing to do with when it is actually written. And they may also have nothing to do with when the book actually hits the shelves. They could have a copyright of say 2004 but dont show on the shelf till 2005. They do it with movies all the time. Here's the copyright page from my current read:

2005 BallantineBooks Mass Market Edition
Copyright@ 2004 by Stephen Frey
Excerpt from The Chairman copyright@2005 by Stephen Frey
Originally published in hardcover in 2004

Now this may seem confusing but the important thing to remember is the authors copyright. Most authors copyright their work as soon as possible to prevent plagarism, etc. When I finish a poem or short story I mark it with the date I finished it so when its published I have a copyright. That has nothing to do with when the book gets published or when it becomes available. There are a slew of variables involved and just claiming a copyright date is pretty much meaningless. I could write a poem today and put a copyright of 1967 on it and thats the one that would be listed on the copyright page. When you take a manuscript to a publisher when you wrote it is not part of the eqaution. Oh they may ask "so when did you write this?" If you say "2 years ago" they dont know and they are not going to invest any resources to find out. Their concern is if the thing is publishable or not and how many $ are in it for them. Thats why when MH keeps pushing his dates back you cant say he didnt write it then and the only way to verify is with the author copyright. and guess what? That little gem right there is proof of his fabrication. Because none of the copyrights support his assertions.
Another thing to consider is the process of getting a book to print. Since I write poetry which is subjective, I'm not usually asked to rewrite anything. It either works or doesnt. Thats why there are fewer poets than say romance writers. My point is I could write a novel of say 300 pages. The editor gets the manuscript and they and a few other folk read and reread it looking for errors and such. I get a call"this needs rewriting". So I go back and redo what they point to. Now lets say my book contains a line in it with a date. They didnt ask me to change that but now things have happened on the world stage that wouldnt look right once the book hit the shelf. So I change the date during the rewrite. Noone but me knows that the date is different and the copyright still applies.
Now as for the Bible well thats a whole other ball of wax. But consider these factors in the Tjalmud Immanuel and the Henoch Prophecies. Just like the Bible, no copyright no proof of when it was written. and without a copyright anyone can reproduce it and print it.
I used the @ cause I dont have a copyright key on my laptop.
Does that help any JR?

[edit on 12/31/05 by longhaircowboy]

[edit on 12/31/05 by longhaircowboy]

I first read the 1981 prediction in 1986 and the ones from 1987 (which also contained the forewarning re the WTC) in 2002." -MH

First-this doesnt tell us when it was written just when Horn read it.
Second-if MH has been researching BM for what was it-27 years, How come he didnt read the 87 predictions till 5 years later? and how many rewrites were involved in the meantime.
That one little sentence hangs like a bad apple from a rotten tree.
Happy New Year all.

[edit on 12/31/05 by longhaircowboy]

Originally posted by longhaircowboy
Does that help any JR?
[edit on 12/31/05 by longhaircowboy]
[edit on 12/31/05 by longhaircowboy]

It does indeed sir. It confirms to me that the publish date has little to do with exactly when it's written. I could just as easily publish a doument dated 1969 if I wrote it yesterday. I believe your statement of "the publish date has little to do with when it's written" is more along the line of what I heard asked on the radio.

Thank ya,
Jeff

Right. A copyright is applied when you write or type your first word in an observable format. Now most published authors apply for copyright registration but its not necesarry. It does however give you added legal standing should you need it.
If BM hasnt applied for that then copyrights are just about useless.
If you need some tech stuff on copyright publaw.com has tons of info.
I prophesied last year that I would be alive on Jan 1. Hey it came true.
Oh wait I said that in 2000. I even wrote it down wanna see? Look up a line or 2. Doesnt sound convincing does it? This is MHs ploy.
Can BM show us a registration cert? Probably won't. And for me to get a peek at it I'd need his authorization. Anyone wanna take bets on that happening.

Originally posted by longhaircowboy
Right. A copyright is applied when you write or type your first word in an observable format. Now most published authors apply for copyright registration but its not necesarry. It does however give you added legal standing should you need it.

I've litigated a few copyright cases, so let me add a little to what cowboy said (which is all correct).

First, a copyright is created when an author fixes his work in a "tangible medium of expression" -- print, video, sound recording, etc.

Second, in order to bring suit for copyright infringement, you must do so in a Federal Court and have registered your copyright claim. There is some split in the law as to whether you must already have received a registration or whether simply making the application is sufficient to being the the proceedings. But that is only relevant when there are issues of when damages may have begin to have accrued or if the claim is time-barred.

When you register your copyright, you can put down ANYTHING for the date of creation. The copyright office, by statute, does not challenge this unless there is some evidence within the application itself to do so.

Only when a copyright suit is brought into court will the facts alleged in the application be challenged IF those facts are relevant to a defense raised by the defendant. For example, if I stole someone else's book and put my name on it, then registered it with a creation date two years prior to the actual author, then he would sue me for copyright infringement alleging that I did not create the work at the time stated on the copyright registration, then the judge will decide whether evidence needs to be brought forth to support my copyright registration.

If I get a chance, I'll check for any federal copyright registrations to Billy or Michael and see what they claim. I'll post if anything of interest is found.

Centrist- thanks for the technicallities. I wasnt sure if thats what jritzman was looking for so I tried to keep it simple and hope that was what he sought.
Also of note is the fact that each state handles copyright issues too so not only do you have fed law but state as well. I'm no lawyer but I would guess that there is variety at the state level just like with any other issue.
From my understanding you cant view copyright registration certs without the copyright holders authorization so I hope you have luck checkin those out.

I appriciate you guys checking into that. I personally dont know the first thing about book publishing. When I heard that call on the radio I thought I'd have to look into that considering MH answer and the subsequent quick move away from that subject. I mean it was dropped like a hot potato.

It's been said before that some predictions were held by Wendelle Stevens personally, which were either typed or hand written. They were never published or brought to light til after the alledged predicted event. Then, it was said that Wendelle had these documents years before the predictions. Thats it, just his say so.

Many things are starting to piece together here, including the Swiss Military reporting UFOs over Meier's home being nothing but a tall tale with no substanciated proof whatsoever, Mr. Posts *full* statement instead of just what the Meier camp wants to tell us (the first of many I'm sure), and finally the FX house that MH has been talking about can finally be called and questioned about their statements (although I'd hazard a guess that it's exactly as I said, that they would have no other way to reproduce the Meier films then CG, because they dont do minatures, they do CG only...simple as that. Of course MH is going to portray that as a major FX house being stumped and saying they couldnt do it without CG...something not available to Meier. A studio doing miniature work and modelmaking could easily do it...if I could do it as I did in my little studio, ILM or Lunar can do it in a heartbeat.

It's my opinion that the vast majority of quotes from well respected scientists or experts is no more then selective excerpts to portray the Meier case as "real". The more ya dig, the more you'll find.

Originally posted by longhaircowboy
Centrist-

Also of note is the fact that each state handles copyright issues too so not only do you have fed law but state as well. I'm no lawyer but I would guess that there is variety at the state level just like with any other issue.

Cowboy -- State law claims were, for all practical purposes, preempted under teh 1976 copyright act. That act is probably more famous for eliminating the requirement that the author fix a copyright notice to all publications of their work or lose their copyright. Since then, though, claims for copyright infringement can still be made in a state court claim, but cannot be the sole basis for suit -- state courts no longer have subject matter jurisdiction in copyright claims. The only way they could be heard in a state court is if they are brought under supplemental jurisdiction to a primary claim that is should rightly be within the jurisdiction of a state court.

Let me give you an example of this. It's a little extreme, but it gets the point across. Lets suppose someone was charged with fraud, which is generally litigated under state law. Let also suppose that it's necessary to show that a certain copyright infringement also occured to prove one of the elements of the fraud (for example, when the defendant copied someone else's work and passed it off as his own). The copyright claim may be deminimis as far as damages are concerned, but it may be integral to the fraud claim to prove copyright infringement.

Under these circumstances, the copyright claim would be heard in the state court, but it would be heard applying the federal law. If there are any law students out there... here's a brain teaser -- which would the federal or state rules of evidence apply?

Centrist

edit: I should also note that in the above-hypothetical, the defendant may petition to remove the case to federal court because of the copyright claim. It would be then at the federal court's discretion as to whether the suit would proceed in state or federal court.

[edit on 1-1-2006 by Centrist]

Thanks Centrist. It would seem I'm a bit behind the curve on copyright law.
Most of my works get published in collections so I havent had to worry too much about the legalities.
AS for that pesky FX house. It is a production company run by 2 guys who seem to have had some success with their work. They make no FX claims on their website. I have been unable to get them to respond to email. But I keep hopin.

Hey you phony fraud Mr Horn are you ever going to explain the proven fake dinosaur pics that Billy supposedly took aboard a UFO when travelling through time ??????????????????????????????????????

If you can't explain that then get the hell off this forum because you are just wasting space.

Zamboni- unnecessary. this has so far been a civil discussion(for the most part). We are trying to get at the truth and your flaming rhetoric is not needed here.
Centrist,jritzman- on a thread 'we are related to aliens' is a poster named grasshopper claiming to have been abducted by Pleaidiens. Just to let ya know.

Well here we are in the new year and I can see that the Meier case continues to create intense controversy, as it was intended to do. Of course, I’m sure we’d all agree that photos such as those from Ritzmann, IIG, etc. wouldn’t (and demonstrably don’t) warrant such a debate but that’s okay, at least they tried.

And I’m also thrilled to find out, if I understood it correctly, that Centrist is/was an attorney. I’m actually inspired to the point of imagining what a wonderful courtroom encounter we could have. A skilled, schooled litigator facing off against a former folk singer and self-styled UFO researcher, wow. I wonder how Centrist would handle the 100+ still accessible witnesses, including those who are already recorded on film giving their testimony, and who would be recounting their experiences, both past and recent. Here you’d have all of these people, from all different walks of life, some of whom are actually photographers of the craft as well, being mercilessly attacked (well, isn’t that the role of attorneys in many cases?), in attempts to shake their credibility, despite the fact that none of them ever tried to profit from their experiences and who will be shown to have no other discernible motives for telling, and consistently adhering to, their stories.

And, while they’re not admissible in court, the results of the lie detector tests show that even under stressful conditions (the test itself) these people do remain unshakeable, not fanatic, just unshakable.

Now part of what emboldens me to even dream of such a confrontation, where the facts and evidence in the case could be put in front of 12 reasonable people who possessed common sense (am I naively optimistic?) is because Centrist expressed a hugely illogical thought regarding the Paris prophecies. First, prophecies are the probable outcome of causes that have already been set in motion. They are still changeable, up to a point, after which they are expressed as predictions, or matters of certainty. In this light, we have seen, and may well see again (hopefully) the failure of prophesied events to occur, or to occur only in diminished magnitude.

So when Centrist attempted to dismiss the Paris prophecies because it hadn’t burned down yet, a bit of common sense and logic needs to be stated. If we substituted Paris with your neighborhood and the events foretold, specific as they were, occurred with the exception of your neighborhood being burned down – would an intelligent person say, “Well, the neighborhood didn’t burn down so we can forget about the underlying problems and the threat of the burning down actually occurring”? And, should the neighborhood actually end up being burned down, by the culprits who were long ago accurately described as ultimately succeeding with that crime, would an intelligent person say, “Well, that was just a coincidence. I could predict that such and so will happen in Brazil and it would be just as likely to occur, etc., blah, blah”?

Or would an intelligent person say, “Hey, we’ve seen events occur as they were foretold, just short of the worst possible outcome, so maybe we’d really better get very proactive here and see what it takes to AVOID the worst coming to pass”? Folks…this is why they pay me the big bucks, to point out, every now and then to even the over-educated, that common sense and logic are SO missing during these times that people fight like hell to be “right” only to end up being so very wrong.

And getting back to all the claims regarding the “hoaxing” by Meier of the UFO photos, I can honestly say that Wendelle Stevens comments from 1982 still stand untarnished and undiminished in truthfulness:

"...While we have been unable to prove that any of these four photographs are actually real, because we have found no affimative test for the reality of UFO photographs. We have signed for the use of over $60,000 of research money spent in a number of institutions eliminating step by step what they are not, and they are demonstrably not created by any known techincal tricks of photography, and they are not small scale models.

We have built models, and we have used the models of others - one $400 exact duplicate built by a movie studio special effects department, and we have rigged them into the very same background scenes in Switzerland, and we were never able to get a suitable duplicate picture that would pass even the preliminary tests.

The counterproponents have not, to our knowledge, done any of this - and they never went to Switzerland and talked to the principle photographer, or any of the other five photographers who have gotten photos of these craft; an elementary step in any proper investigation. Nor have they gone to the properties along with the witnesses to point out directions, times, shadows, etc. and attempt to rig models into the scenes photograped or to carry model trees, etc. as has been alleged, in some cases actually impossible to do with what was normally available."

BTW, since about 1960, I’ve spent hundreds of hours in state-of-the-art recording studios in Chicago, New York and Los Angeles and worked with super engineers and producers (some, like Malcolm Cecil, one of Stevie Wonder’s producers is both) and I know how long it can take, even with excellent equipment to create certain sound effects. Suffice it to say that not only haven’t any of the skeptics (including members of this forum) ever duplicated the Meier UFO recordings with any equipment, let alone with the cassette machines that Meier and his wife used…they never will. And I think that it would be fun to put that in evidence during our little trial, as I’m sure that Centrist would agree.

Now, since I see a new (to me) person asking some questions, I’ll do my best to answer them.

1) If these photos are "real", (meaning actual transportation vehicles of an alien race), how can you be so sure that they are being driven by aliens and not human beings who may have captured these vehicles from an alien race? Since you stated most of the UFO's seen on earth have been created by man, how can you be sure that these pictured craft aren't man made?

MH: In the purest sense I can’t prove it either (Stevens said that he couldn’t “prove” it) but it may be a moot point. The “real” bottom line of the case may well be, what does it mean to us? In other words, let’s just say for a moment that Meier himself is an absolutely super-genius conjurer and illusionist and that he, somehow, has created all the physical and prophetically accurate information himself. Does it diminish in any way the accuracy, value and importance of the information, especially if does indeed clearly relate to the dangers to, and possible assistance for, our future survival? The UFOs, whatever they are and from wherever they come, are the attention getters, for all practical purposes.

2) Couldn't a government agency be creating a hoax to instill fear in other people and other governments about a doomsday they are likely to create through (an opposing government) aggressiveness, hostility, and a wish to control the world?

MH: Could be but…they’re already much more effective in destroying the lives of thousands, even millions of people without needing to take such an arduous and difficult route, one in which they are simultaneously doing everything possible to insist that it’s all a hoax! On the other hand, as this whole are of interest, UFOs, Ets and all the nonsense about “alien abductions” gets ever increasing press, it certainly is possible that intelligence types are ready to create a false “alien invasion” as a further means of controlling people.

3) Didn't you report on your web site that these Plejaren aliens look very much like the rest of humanity on earth? How do we know that they are not just human beings pretending to be Plejarens?

MH: While we don’t “know” that for sure, so far they have exhibited traits very UNLIKE our fellow humans, i.e. non-interference, non-aggression, absence of fear-based religions, lack of interest in money, materialism or fame, etc.

4) Could you explain why the Plejarens explain so much to one individual which only involves one language? If they truly wanted to help planet earth and humanity, why wouldn't they at least notify one representative in each country, in each countries language, to make sure that there is no misinterpretation in translation?

MH: Their alleged logic is that, as the old saying goes, too many cooks spoil the broth, witness the religions…and almost anything else that people get involved in. The temptation to make oneself VERY important would be irresistible for most people…at least up to the point that other people started trying to assassinate them, as has been the case with Meier 21 times. So in this case they started with someone when he was only five years old and tutored, mentored, taught and advised him throughout his life. They also chose someone who spoke a language that they felt is superior in specificity of meaning, to any other of the major languages spoken on earth, i.e. German. Common sense also tells us that the whole thing would fall apart instantly when just two people in different countries/languages reported different meanings and/or information and the fight would begin that would completely discredit the whole mission.

5) Correct me if I am wrong, but did you state that these Plejarens have predicted that the USA would be divided into five different parts? Can you elaborate on this?

MH: In the documents from both 1981 and 1987 they said that the U.S. would experience two civil wars and would be divided into five territories under various dictatorial sectarian control.

6) Other than wars and rumors of wars, have the Plejarens had much to say about humanity on a positive note? It doesn't sound as if they hold out much hope for humanity.

MH: Actually, yes. The problem is that we are already lulled into mind-numbing senselessness, preoccupation with the unnecessarily excessive and excessively unnecessary that the only hope they hold for avoiding our self-destruction is a direct, harsh wake-up call based on the truth as they know it. The core of the case is actually far more about spiritual development (non-religious) and the various stages of evolution, including technologies that come into existent at the appropriate levels of human spiritual development. You can find some of the info at www.theyfly.com and at www.figu.org (in various languages there). The question though is, do we survive these times in a more graceful manner, or do we so devastate ourselves, and our world, that our progress is set back hundreds, even thousands of years? There is reason to think that, although they have already said that they see primarily apocalyptic events occurring from here on, there is still much we can do to make positive, critical changes that lead to a better outcome. Of course, it doesn’t take an ET to agree or disagree with this, it’s just that their 55-year record of accuracy is pretty hard to argue with (for most rational people).

7) Were you somehow "chosen" to translate these messages into English?

MH: No, since I’m not the actual translator and I chose to research and publicize the information in the case on my own. I do, however, have contractual authorization from Meier/FIGU to do this work for the English-speaking world, strictly on a voluntary basis, meaning I am not paid by them to do it, nor do I pay them for the right to do it. In this way I can retain my own point of view, opinions, disagreements, etc., which I’ve done and which I sometimes have with them. Also, having spent time with Meier, his associates and family over the past five years, I am convinced of his/their honesty, truthfulness, purity of intent and motives, etc., which makes it very easy for me to stand for the work and the parties concerned.

8) Some web sites take the view that some governments have learned how to control the weather (as in hurricanes, etc.), earthquakes, volcanoes, etc. as a type of warfare against neighboring enemies. Have the Plejarens made any comments regarding this?

MH: They have mentioned that HAARP, among other things, is a weather weapon and have hinted that other countries do, or will possess such things. This excerpt from the Henoch Prophecies, in my opinion, also addresses this, especially in regards to the firestorms and hurricanes: “Yet all the apocalyptic events will not only be brought about due to the use of unbelievably deadly and destructive weapons—such as chemical, laser and others—and by cloned murder machines; but in addition to this, the Earth and nature, maltreated to the deepest depths by the irresponsible human beings of Earth, will rise up and cause destruction and bring death onto the Earth. Enormous firestorms and gigantic hurricanes will sweep over the USA and bring devastation, destruction and annihilation, as this from time immemorial never before will have happened.

9) Have the Plejarens given Billy Meier any idea what their views are on time travel?

MH: Yes, to the degree that they claim to be able to do it and that Meier has been taken both into the past and into the future. Wendelle Stevens description of the 11 photos he saw of the, yet to occur, earthquake that devastates San Francisco, were allegedly taken by Meier during one such trip.

Once again, the opponents of the case face the ever increasing possibility that, one day, ALL of their arguments will be demolished when the case is recognized as true and authentic and I, on the other hand, only face this one question should the case ever be proven to be a hoax:

Hey, how'd he do all that?

Originally posted by 8Michael12
Once again, the opponents of the case face the ever increasing possibility that, one day, ALL of their arguments will be demolished when the case is recognized as true and authentic and I, on the other hand, only face this one question should the case ever be proven to be a hoax:

Hey, how'd he do all that?

When do you think the case will be proven authentic when day by day, year by year it continues to fall apart under closer scrutiny (i.e. the dinosaur pictures, the Asket and Nera photos, drastic "prophetic errors...etc etc etc)??

How about one Mr. Ray Stanford, who said to Jim Deardorff publicly, quote:

"Wendelle Stevens, who told me he knew Meier photos we
were discussing were fake, and who seems to be a friend of yours
(judging from the way you shared some of my statements with him)
despite his court-documented molestation of young girls 14 and
substantially younger.

When I asked Wendelle why he was promoting a fake case, instead
of exposing it, he said it was because promoting it makes more
money than exposing it."

This is all just a matter of time before we're to the bottom of all of it. My guess is you wont be asking questions like "how'd he do it?", but rather, you'll twaddle off of the UFO scene and we'll not hear from you again til youre hocking some other story.

Hey Michael, glad to have ya back. I truely enjoy reading your posts. The loopy logic, and irreverent inconcistencies. Man what a laugh.
Any how......there seems to be some question as to the dates and times again. I mean you keep throwin out all these different dates and such. In your above post you say they were with Meier since he was five and then say they have 55 years of accuracy. In other posts you have mentioned various times as well. One time you said it was 64 years and before that it was 40 years. And on and on. Maybe you should write down a date and time and stick with it. Might make your argument more believable. And nowhere are there any specific dates in Meiers prophecies so just about anyone could pull a Nostradamus and say hey look what I predicted.
I've always been leary of prophecy because they're just too many things that have to happen for one certain event to happen. The variables are just too many. But hey Mike keep it up cause there's nothin I like better than a good work of fiction. BTW got any of those copyright registration certs we can see to verify any of your claims?

[edit on 1/2/06 by longhaircowboy]

In no peculiar, or particular, order, a few comments. Regarding copyrights, the following excerpts are from the abundance of information pertaining to same:

Copyright is a form of protection provided by the laws of the United States (title 17, U.S. Code) to the authors of “original works of authorship,” including literary, dramatic, musical, artistic, and certain other intellectual works.

(also, from another source):

Copyright:

The legal ownership of a "work," which can take any of the following forms: written text, program source code, graphics images, sculpture, music, sound recording, motion picture, pantomime, choreograph and architecture. Before January 1, 1978, a work had to be published (prepared for distribution) to be copyrighted. After that date, any work expressed in paper or electronic form is automatically copyrighted for the life of the author plus 70 years. Registration with the Copyright Office is not required, although it is beneficial if there are disputes later on. In the U.S., a copyright symbol is not mandatory, but recommended.

As for parasites who slander people and quote unknown sources as their "experts", such trash is the mark of desperation...and lousy character. For those who may be interested, as difficult as you may find it to believe, there are parties who create false charges and persecute, even prosecute, people based on them for reasons that have nothing to do with the alleged "crimes". Interestingly enough, in the case re Stevens, it's quite telling to note that there is neither prior nor subsequent evidence of any such behavior as he was prosecuted for...a statistically improbable occurrence based on the well known and established patterns and behavioral records of proven perpetrators.

But when one runs out of ammunition, as the Ritzmann defamer did long ago, character assassination, slander/libel and non-responsiveness to the very well-established, well-documented research and investigation in the case - by people with stellar qualifications - is to be expected. Thus, he doesn't disappoint us and, again rises to the lowest levels of our expectations.

When Centrist comes around to weigh in here, he may well wish to remind everyone of the difference between strong evidence and weak evidence, and even point to witness testimony as traditionally considered primarily the latter. Considering just how strong this weak evidence actually is, the case that can be made for the rest of the strong evidence is truly considerable.

Harkening back to another point I made some time ago, which undoubtedly sailed over the heads of some people, simply acknowledging the abundance of non-contradictory, inexplicable, solid, tested and still irreproducible evidence, along with the voluminous body of prophetically accurate information, would be a good start for anyone even hoping to have credibility as a qualified researcher. Stevens said the same thing essentially regarding those who criticize the photographic evidence but have completely failed to take even the first "elementary steps" to support their own claims.

As for the dates, Meier's contacts started when he was five, or at about the same age as some of the thinking skills on display here. He published a tract on meditation when he was around 10 that was subsequently disseminated by a well-respected meditation teacher. When he was 14, about 55 years ago, he published the first of the prophetically accurate information, information that had been given to him starting when he was...5, some 64 years ago. In 1958, when he was 21, he published more specific information, including the foretelling of the two U.S. wars with Iraq. I hope this clarification regarding the dates isn't too difficult for you to comprehend.