Billy Meier called the New Nostradamus!?!?

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posted on Dec, 11 2005 @ 05:19 PM
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Hi holedigger0812 and thanks for the comments. It's nice to actually thank someone here for a change instead of just play a hostile game of tennis.

Let me offer a couple of comments also about the previous posters' complaints. First, since someone is actually willing to carry on endlessly about a phony company and their phony, non-existent lawsuit, it says a lot about their own actual intent and credibility. To them I say, find this company...if you can, and then tell us all about their plans for their lawsuit. And please, don't waste anyone's time with this until you can actually produce these characters and their "lawsuit". Of course you're quick to quote this as some sort of factual, credible issue from a company that doesn't seem to exist but take the time to really examine and think through the Meier case...whoa, not you!

As for why I don't send my DVD out for review, I already have a few reviews at my site and from parties who were not anonymous with established audiences. I already have a list as long as my arm of media appearances on shows where the hosts saw my DVD as well, which was one of the main reasons that I got on those shows, some repeatedly. So there's neither a profit motive nor a genuine need on my part to seek another "review", especially from anonysmous people. And, since I don't sense that this item, modestly priced as it is, is of sufficient value to the person requesting it to purchase it on its own merits - why would I give it away for free anyway? In other words, to give something freely that is not valued by the receiver is to devalue it. And, in reality, with all this concern about it, should it have been given freely and then reviewed poorly might I not (if I was that kind of a person) complain about it and, if it was reviewed favorably, wouldn't that then open the door to others saying it was only because the guy got it for free? I oter words, an unnecessary and no-win situation.

Please understand, I am not a worshipper of the main religion/god of this land, i.e. money, so trying to make that case against me is really a waste of time.

As far as Centrist's comments goes, it's clear that if he actually read them he'd see that they are riddled with his own, unsupported, beliefs and not in need of further comment from me, except to say that my presentation is sufficiently credible for many in the media and some scientists as well. As a matter of fact, I've shut up at least one guy with a top security clearance and it only took about three minutes - the reason being that he actually had the capacity to think and recognized when the facts contradicted his assumptions. So Centrist appears to be kind of like a guy who nailed his foot to the floor and is going around in circles.

Masterp's comments are simply not worthy of comment other than to say that some are factually wrong and some simply stupid...some both, so what does that leave?

Okay, why don't the Plejaren interfere in our affairs? Because, unlike the policies of this, and other countries, they don't subscribe to the notion of violating our free will, under any guise, and they don't subscribe to the notion that they are responsible for our actions. We are responsible for them, plain and simple. And the kind of help that they have to offer is in the form of very informed guidance, which we are free to take or ignore. It's the same model one uses in a family - where adults are present. If we continue to believe in illgocial, bloodthirsty religons and stupid, dead end political systems - where somebody else is upposed to take responsibility for our lives - we won't make it.

As far as I'm concerned, the ET/UFO part is far less important than the information, long proven as prophetically accurate, because that information was given so that, if there were still any thiinking, responsible humans left on the planet, we would recognize and take to heart the credibility and intention of the source and, at the very least, consider the content of their warnings about the future. As the title of my exhorbitantly proced DVD states, I consider the Meier case to be the key to our future survival. Of course, for a key to work, people have to be smart enough to know how to use it, presuming also that they can find the door, locate the lock, insert the key and figure out which way to turn it...even if it takes two tries.

This case is NOT MEANT to be easy, self-evident, done for us, etc. It's meant to make us think and reason - hopefully in time to really get that the demonic forces in certain governments will, with certainty, facilitate the unbeleivably terrifying destruction of a great aprt of this world and a majority of this country, as has already been spelled out in this case, in fairly specific terms, for about 25 years or more.

So, to all the guys out there who are just plain smarter than I am, and who under no circumstances are gonna fall for some stupid DVD that I actually charge for - take a look at all the other things in your life, from the gas in your car to the internet access, cable TV, etc. that you may already pay for and...wait till the DVD is available at your library, for free.




posted on Dec, 11 2005 @ 08:28 PM
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So Centrist appears to be kind of like a guy who nailed his foot to the floor and is going around in circles.


Truly, the circles are in the circular logic, riddle with false statements, that you use to try and avoid the real issues. The only reason it seems like this debate goes around in circles is because you keep evading the questions and the debate keeps coming back to the same problems with Meier's story.

Like I said before. Show us proof. That's all we ask.



posted on Dec, 11 2005 @ 09:38 PM
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C'mon mike............what kinda hulla baloo was that. ok I admit it I cant afford the DVD. There ya happy. I thought about swappin your info for mine but if I shipped you my extensive hard copy library of materials it would take a semi. How bout this- any time your in my neck of the woods you come and check out my 40 years worth of books, photos,manuscripts, ect.
But still I want to know why you ignore my questions.



posted on Dec, 11 2005 @ 11:22 PM
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Longhair,

I appreciate the spirit of your words. Please give me a short list (1. 2. 3., etc.) of the most important questions on your mind and I promise to do my best to answer them clearly and honestly. BTW, where is your neck of the woods anyway?



posted on Dec, 12 2005 @ 05:03 PM
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This is a perfect example of the publics inability to accept the truth. I'm telling you right now if aliens landed in central park on live TV people would still not believe it.



posted on Dec, 12 2005 @ 05:28 PM
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Finally, something sensible that I can't argue with on this forum.


jpl

posted on Dec, 12 2005 @ 10:30 PM
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Hi all,

I am most curious what this forum might respond with, regarding the following questions:

#1
If Meier is a fraud, Can anyone explain to me, how the metal sample as examined and documented by Marcel Vogel was fabricated or obtained?

#2
IF Meier is a fraud, can anyone explain why he simply doesn't make or get lots more such metal samples & sell these for LOTS of money?

#3
If Meier is a fraud, Can ANYONE explain how he was able to produce the quantity and quality of beamship photographs in his collection?
I mean in REALISTIC methods, which would withstand the scrutiny of any expert willing to risk his job & position simply for doing any analysis...

#4
If Meier is a fraud and money monger, can anyone explain why he doesn't simply produce LOTS of similar photographs which could be sold for lots of money as artistic works, irregardless of whether these are fraudulent or not?

#5
If Meier is a fraud, how DID he produce those beamship sounds?

#6
If Meier is a fraud, how did he manage to "fool" the other people present DURING the recording of the beamship sounds?

#7
If Meier is a fraud, how or where DID he get the original TJ manuscript, who's content is legitimate enough to create the existing controvercy among "biblical scholars"?

I'm more of an engineering tech type, and have been watching over the Meier contact as well as others for a couple of decades now.
Although I've heard LOTS of claims of fraud etc. I've yet to hear any plausible technical explanations for the above.
There could be lucrative business opportunities for anyone who figures the above out !!
The $$ opportunities, if Meier is a fraud, far outweigh those which exist if Meier was "only" contacting alients.

Think on this...
The above is just the tip of the iceberg.

Regards,
JP



posted on Dec, 13 2005 @ 10:22 AM
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JPL-lemme get home, and write ya a reply to those questions...there's plenty to answer...work has me bogged down at the moment.



posted on Dec, 14 2005 @ 01:17 PM
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My Comments in Bold...


Originally posted by jpl
Hi all,

I am most curious what this forum might respond with, regarding the following questions:

#1
If Meier is a fraud, Can anyone explain to me, how the metal sample as examined and documented by Marcel Vogel was fabricated or obtained?

Really Vogel's "analysis" isnt more then a second hand story...some would argue this is "proof". But, in fact, there is NO metal sample to back any of it up. Here's an analogy for ya. I have an alien dog. I have pictures. I have a vet write up a paper on the dog's genetic makeup, and the idea that it could not possibly be from earth. Where is the dog? Oh, he ran away a year ago and I dont know where he is. It's possible the aliens came back and got him. He has effectively "vanished".

Believe me? Of course not, why would you, there's no proof. Nada zip, none. Who care what credentials the person had, how upper echelon a researcher or scientist they were...there's nothing to back up their paperwork. Not so much as a bitslice.

The offer that this is some sort of proof is so patently absurd when there is NOTHING substancial to back it up...that alien dog has gone home. Done over, and thats it. Util such time as Meier comes forward with a real metal sample that can be tested and verified, the metal sample is just a tall tale.


#2
IF Meier is a fraud, can anyone explain why he simply doesn't make or get lots more such metal samples & sell these for LOTS of money?

Good question, if he isnt a fraud why doesnt he??? If there ever was a real metal sample, none are forthcoming. In my opinion nor will they ever be.

#3
If Meier is a fraud, Can ANYONE explain how he was able to produce the quantity and quality of beamship photographs in his collection?
I mean in REALISTIC methods, which would withstand the scrutiny of any expert willing to risk his job & position simply for doing any analysis...

First, quantity isnt proof of anything other then taking alot of pictures. The quality is highly debatable. I have duplicated such photos using small models and one single prop, even going so far as to make the ship appear behind a far tree. These have been posted here and at the PAR message board. If the "analysis" of said photos were done with all the equipment spoken of in the report, then some of the pictures posted on Meier's website that very clearly show a small object close to the camera would have been detected immediately. Unfortunate for us who would want to conduct studies on the original photos or negatives if offered the chance, they no longer exist....much like the metal sample.

It's said "many photos never came back from being developed" insinuating they were stolen. Most likely, they came back and showed supportive devices (string, or pole) or just didnt work in the forced perspective of the camera's focus lock (i.e. the cam focused on the wrong object) These photos would be "stolen" so as not to be examined.


#4
If Meier is a fraud and money monger, can anyone explain why he doesn't simply produce LOTS of similar photographs which could be sold for lots of money as artistic works, irregardless of whether these are fraudulent or not?

Well, he does. Has sold them for years. Why not sell as artwork? Because art comes and goes...religion can last forever.

#5
If Meier is a fraud, how DID he produce those beamship sounds?

There were plenty of ways to at that point of time. It's been talked about extensively in the past here, with one member suggesting a 32 or 33 comb filter feeding back through an amp. Typical tape delay pedal for guitar, which were widely available. I'm not any sort of audio-phile, but from working with an on guitars and playing for over 23 years, I have heard such sounds very similar when delay pedals feedback. Duplicating such a sound would require absolute positioning information of the source of feedback and angle to amplification. Listen to Joe Satriani's "Flying in a Blue Dream" intro on album of the same name....you'll hear a sound similar to the "beamship".

#6
If Meier is a fraud, how did he manage to "fool" the other people present DURING the recording of the beamship sounds?

My long time answer is how do you know *anyone* was present? Signed affidavits mean nothing when the event is'nt provable...as to whether you were there or not. Lets keep in mind this sound was supposed to have been heard what....a mile away? (the actual report escapes me...but really far)....yet we hear a dog bark thru the noise. C'mon...it just aint happening.

#7
If Meier is a fraud, how or where DID he get the original TJ manuscript, who's content is legitimate enough to create the existing controvercy among "biblical scholars"?

Again, I'm not a biblical scholar, but a simple search turns up that it's considered to be a hoax. See home.swipnet.se...

And look at the TJ links and James Deardorff link. Meier isnt a stupid man, and he traveled quite a bit studying other religions and cultures. Again, there is no ancient manuscript to study, nor co-founder (murdered...gasp.) absolutely nothing to back it all up....just another story and writings.

Do some serious looking at all the material and you'll see alot of claims and no backup. Names dropped that never worked on the case in any capacity other then looking at the photos and commenting. The "analysis" was done by the researchers involved and then slammed shut to everyone else. Thats how ya keep a lid on. Some have come forward about what they were asked to do with regard to the photos, like adding reflections and shadows.
See www.rickross.com...

"Jim [Dilettoso] said, 'Can you make the bottom of the object appear to reflect the ground below?' I said yes, and we performed the operations that they asked for."

That says it all to me. This from a man who can be contacted, and backed up.

Look for more holes, theyre all over, but you have to suspend your belief that Meier is in contact with Plejarens...just for a minute.



posted on Dec, 15 2005 @ 12:22 PM
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I've been looking at the case for about two years and i'm very impressed. I don't know if this url has been presented yet so if not here it is: www.figu.org. That's the official site of Billy's group.

If people here can look past all the strange pics and video's and learn about the spiritual and prophetic information that Billy has given, you will begin to understand what this is all about.

It's a complex case but over time things begin to reveal themselves. It's realy very satisfying.



posted on Dec, 15 2005 @ 12:25 PM
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this Meier guy seems.....quirky??...out there....and if he has been proven a fraud then why does the UFO community still follow him????



posted on Dec, 15 2005 @ 12:54 PM
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Originally posted by Alpha Grey
this Meier guy seems.....quirky??...out there....and if he has been proven a fraud then why does the UFO community still follow him????


It's a religion and it's called "Brainwashing". Ever hear of David Koresh and the Branch Davidians or Heaven's Gate, for Pete's sake!? People believe what they WANT to believe - period. Meier has proven to be a hoax. They found a scaled model of a UFO in his garge for Chripe's sake!

www.geocities.com...
members.tripod.com...
www.crystalinks.com...
www.ufoevidence.org...
www.paranormalnetwork.net...
www.forteantimes.com...

I could go on posting links supporting this fraud from hours - however I am too bored with this subject matter - as it has been proven time and again to be nothing more than an elaborate HOAX!



posted on Dec, 15 2005 @ 01:13 PM
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Originally posted by Alpha Grey
this Meier guy seems.....quirky??...out there....and if he has been proven a fraud then why does the UFO community still follow him????


The UFO community does not follow him. Check most any UFO site and you won't find his garbage posted among the documents uncovered by actual researchers. He's a curiosity or fascination because his cultists continue to deny the truth -- that there is no evidence to support his claims. In fact, many people have done fine jobs of showing that Meier is a plain hoax. Check it out -- the only way you'll find any of Meier's works is to buy them from websites that go to ridiculous extremes to maintain their false claims supported by falsified statements and evidence to perpetuate this money-making fraud of theirs.

Read through this board, as well, at the many threads where good research has been done to prove that Meier's claims are, at best, unproven, and, most likely, completely hoaxed. Meier's cultists don't understand reason and incessently avoid the truth (read through this thread to see the lengths that Michael Horn has gone to "prove" that Meier's claims are true.)

Here are one of their typical arguments --

"The skeptics must be right all the time, Meier only has to be right once"

This is my favorite! What they're saying is that unless the skeptics can definitively disprove all of Meier's claims, then it's not a hoax. Bullsh*t. Meier's evidence has all disappeared under suspicious circumstances -- the metal samples "disappeared", his negatives were errantly thrown into a fire, his witnesses were "murdered". What else? Oh, the photo of his alleged Plejaren contact turned out to be a photo of a woman on a television show. Meier's response? Swiss mibs switched his photos. Meier's supposed trip back in time where he photographed a "real" dinosaur? Conclusively shown to have been a photograph of a painting of a dinosaur. Meier's "Prophecies"? All are vague and much, if not all, of his scientific knowledge was already known before he wrote it.

The worst offense? His photographs. Apparently, by taking thousands of fake pictures, his cultists suggest that at least one of them must be "real". No, many people have shown that his pictures are easily reproduced without having to resort to photo editors, multiple exposures, or any advanced photographic techniques.

Check out www.iigwest.com... and you'll see a large amount of evidence that clearly shows that Meier's claims are not what people like Michael Horn claim them to be. Of course, Michael Horn will simply refute all this with insults and lies, make personal attacks on the people who don't believe in his cause, and try to sell you a DVD.

If Billy Meier were, in fact, in contact with an alien race that want to "help" us poor little earthlings, and had been communicating with them for so many years, I suspect he could have eeked out a little actual evidence to support his claims, other than some fake pictures, a rock he found in the wilderness, and a sound that he probably recorded off the TV -- just like how he got his picture of Semjase.

Oh.. and if Michael decides to drop by again, how about producing a copy of the mythical metal analysis? Of all the ways you can spend money on Meier's hoax, it seems that this is one piece of evidence that Steelmark can't produce. Odd, huh? One thing that might give Meier's claim some credibility, if it were true... (it's not -- I learned that what Meier actually brought to Marcel Vogel was a crystal which he promised was "unique", what he actually had was a Monazite crystal. Although somewhat rare, Switzerland, near Zurich in fact, is one places where naturally occuring monazite can be found. Interestingly, monazite is the primary source for thulium -- what Vogel supposedly found in Meier's metal and giving his cultists their source for making such grand, and totally unsupported and unverified, claims about Vogel proclaiming that terrestrial science couldn't reproduce the metal! How about this -- terrestrial science can't reproduce the processes that occur deep within the earth over millions of years, which is how monazite crystals are formed -- could it be that Vogel didn't consider this possibility, or in fact that the cultists have taken Vogel out of context, because this is what Vogel truly meant?) Funny thing about IBM -- they tend to keep all of their records for a long time


Sorry... the only thing this Swiss story has ever been about are all the holes in it... we should just start calling it the swiss cheese story.



posted on Dec, 15 2005 @ 02:11 PM
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Originally posted by solarstone
If people here can look past all the strange pics and video's and learn about the spiritual and prophetic information that Billy has given, you will begin to understand what this is all about.


Look past? Why do I have to "look past" fake pictures and film?? No, I have absolutely no reason to take him for any shred or reality when he tries to "fool" the world with pictures and UFO tales. No way. You fake one thing, youre done. I have no reason to believe anything after or before.

The prophetic info is as well unsubstanciated (for the accuracy supporters portray) MOst has been lifted from publications and many are just wrong. Forget that half the time you see "Meier predicted this right!" there's nothing published to back it up, dated or otherwise...just the "say so" of FIGU people.



posted on Dec, 15 2005 @ 02:13 PM
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Originally posted by Centrist

Originally posted by Alpha Grey
Oh.. and if Michael decides to drop by again, how about producing a copy of the mythical metal analysis? Of all the ways you can spend money on Meier's hoax, it seems that this is one piece of evidence that Steelmark can't produce. Odd, huh? One thing that might give Meier's claim some credibility, if it were true... (it's not -- I learned that what Meier actually brought to Marcel Vogel was a crystal which he promised was "unique", what he actually had was a Monazite crystal. Although somewhat rare, Switzerland, near Zurich in fact, is one places where naturally occuring monazite can be found. Interestingly, monazite is the primary source for thulium -- what Vogel supposedly found in Meier's metal and giving his cultists their source for making such grand, and totally unsupported and unverified, claims about Vogel proclaiming that terrestrial science couldn't reproduce the metal! How about this -- terrestrial science can't reproduce the processes that occur deep within the earth over millions of years, which is how monazite crystals are formed -- could it be that Vogel didn't consider this possibility, or in fact that the cultists have taken Vogel out of context, because this is what Vogel truly meant?) Funny thing about IBM -- they tend to keep all of their records for a long time



Is there a place where this can be documented and substanciated? If so, I'd love to see it...could be the piece we've been looking for to put the mythical metal to bed.



posted on Dec, 15 2005 @ 08:53 PM
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I see you guys got this pretty much wrapped up. I have been watching this thread to see what else Mr. Horn had to say especially after his last reply to me. Maybe he realized what he said.
Centrist- did you notice the manner of the post by JPL? Sound a lttle like Mr. Horn? did to me.
Jritzman- I liked your responses to JPL. But why is it up to us to prove anything? We arent making the claims Meier/Horn are.
Interesting how Horn ignored my questions and then when i offered to share my resources with him he got all cuddly and relented to answer a question or 2. But then he'd already answered them by not answering.
Oh and heres another thing that has me puzzled- a book by Carl Van Vlierden titled 'UFO contact From Planet Koldas: A Cosmic Dialogue'
It could be where the whole Pleiadian thing originated.
Keep up the good work guys.

[edit on 15/12/05 by longhaircowboy]

[edit on 15/12/05 by longhaircowboy]



posted on Dec, 15 2005 @ 09:37 PM
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Centrist- did you notice the manner of the post by JPL? Sound a lttle like Mr. Horn? did to me.


Hmm.. lets see. This person created an account, made a single post, and has lurked waiting for a reply. Sounds like the M.O. of someone needing a little help. I don't want to accuse Michael of doing this, but if it looks like a rose and smells like a rose... well, then it must be a picture of a Plejaren go go dancer



posted on Dec, 15 2005 @ 09:45 PM
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LOL just seemed a tad suspicious to me after all he has changed his user name before.
Quack Quack



posted on Dec, 15 2005 @ 11:13 PM
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jritzmann the photo's have never been proven fake. When I say to look past them I mean that they're not the most important aspect of the case.

I've seen the pictures at www.iigwest.com... and I don't know how you can compare them to Meiers. The shots by IIG should have been taken in an identical (or very close to) environment together with a replica of the UFO, and using an identical camera and lens as the original. I don't think this is scientific proof the case is a hoax.

kozmo, the FIGU are not preachy at all, and they always discourage people from believing anything they or anyone else say. He also hate's being idolised.

If the FIGU wanted to make loads of money they would have translated a lot of the important books from German to English, but it looks like they're in no hurry since they wan't the translation to be perfect so it's not misinterpreted.

I'm suprised so many people are dogging Meier, and I think it's sad that some people deny themselves the time to explore the case on their own since they made the decision to believe the few paragraphs written by the skeptics. Now i'm sceptical too but I thnk people are treating it like something that guilty until proven innocent. There's a lot of information available without having to pay for it.

[edit on 15-12-2005 by solarstone]



posted on Dec, 15 2005 @ 11:42 PM
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Originally posted by solarstone
jritzmann the photo's have never been proven fake. When I say to look past them I mean that they're not the most important aspect of the case.


They're not? What is? They've certainly never been proven to be real photos of a Plejaren space ship, either. Billy Meier is the one claiming they're real pictures of something that no one else among 6 billion people on this planet have, supposedly, ever seen... and the burden on is the 6 billion other people to prove that the pictures are a hoax? Sorry, that just doesn't cut it with anyone with half a brain (perhaps that's why it eludes the Meier cultists)



I've seen the pictures at www.iigwest.com... and I don't know how you can compare them to Meiers.


Um... because they're all pictures of things that are supposed to look like spaceships? Again, the people with a whole brain who look at these pictures see that it was possible to hoax Meier's photos. The hoaxed pictures are equally as convincing as the Meier photos. In fact, many of them have showed up on various forums as authentic, until their source is identified.



The shots by IIG should have been taken in an identical (or very close to) environment together with a replica of the UFO, and using an identical camera and lens as the original. I don't think this is scientific proof the case is a hoax.


All the pictures are taken outside. Most of them under similar weather conditions. What does this matter, anyway? The hoaxed pictures are as convincing as the Meier photos and prove that Meier's photos could have been hoaxed.



kozmo, the FIGU are not preachy at all, and they always discourage people from believing anything they or anyone else say. He also hate's being idolised.


If I may make an observation, you don't seem to be asking questions or debating as much as you are defending Meier and his cultists. Have we met before?



If the FIGU wanted to make loads of money they would have translated a lot of the important books from German to English, but it looks like they're in no hurry since they wan't the translation to be perfect so it's not misinterpreted.


Again, you seem to have an interesting knowledge of "the" FIGU.



I'm suprised so many people are dogging Meier, and I think it's sad that some people deny themselves the time to explore the case on their own since they made the decision to believe the few paragraphs written by the skeptics. Now i'm sceptical too but I thnk people are treating it like something that guilty until proven innocent. There's a lot of information available without having to pay for it.


I'm sorry you're sad. I'm sad, too
You know why? Because what you're saying is that people shouldn't listen to the skeptics because we make out a convincing case that Meier is a flat-out hoax, just like his ex-wife said. You're saying that because if everyone makes up their own mind "on their own", they won't have the benefit of other people's research and might not figure out the truth on their own. That's sad. People are entitled to know the truth. Perpetuating lies to sell DVD's is even sadder.

Centrist

[edit on 15-12-2005 by Centrist]





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