Originally posted by grasshopper
Personally, I see the Pleadians as a possible ally. I see what they are trying to do. I don't believe the ends justifies the means in all cases and I don't think being deceptive as they obviously are is sufficient reason to reject them or their help. They are not anti-Christ. But they are here to help those who are suffering as a result of the "good" Christians. If you have never been a Christian, one who was basically forced into it in the first place and then tried to leave you would know what I mean. They are all cults. They are going to try to force on you lots of false prophesies that you may have an open mind to at first and then later reject. And when you try to leave they are NOT going to let you go. I myself would never join a Muslim religion. However, I can certainly see why such an anti-Christian religion would get started in the first place. I welcome the interference of the Pleadians in so much as it has to do with deliverance from the Christians who seem to want to take over the world.

Well, I'll keep my views on religion to myself. However there has never been, any reason or evidence to say there are any such race as "Pleadian", to begin with. None whatsoever.

What you read about them and their "teachings" in my opinion are not views expressed by another (extraterrestrial) culture, but those of humans wanting to start a religion they believe they can control, so it suits them.

Most followers I'd wager to bet, have had some deep seated issue with some religion (or moreover the religious leaders), and look for something that is more tangible and based on "scientific" claims (whether valid or not, no matter how absurd).

In my opinion, it's nothing but people who have lost a basic human premise. Hope and Faith.

When they find an exciting story, one that makes sense to them in the soap opera of human existence, they hop right on.

[edit on 25-3-2006 by jritzmann]

So what I think you are saying, (I haven't read all your posts and so I don't know what your beliefs are), is that you don't believe anything that has to do with Billy Meier. You believe it is all made up by earth humans trying to start a religion. The writings as well as the pictures are hoaxes made up by Billy Meier and other earth humans? I'm just trying to understand your position before I make any kind of reply.

Oh, I have no clue if Meier ever had any legitmate experience.

Do I believe any of the photos or "prophetic writing", metal samples, sounds, or the...anything?

No.

I believe it's a fairly organized effort, possibly involving a couple people.

The motive?

As always, money. The ability to not have to worry about cashflow, and have devotees work for you in return for "divine" knowledge you'll make up and give them.

Ego? Noteriety? Possibly...his devotees are enamoured with him for sure.

There's a myriad of motives, and as I understand it since Meier is well up in age, a new "contact group" is being groomed for a possible replacement?? I dont know.

I know the case will not end with him. I also wish him no ill will. I dont say his teachings of everyone getting along, care for the earth, etc, etc, is a bad thing. But it's also common sense.

But, I've not read any of it in depth. It's not my area of study, visuals are. His visuals dont entice me to read...the entice me to throw it away.

I'm all about peace and love....just dont sell it to me in a cakepan flying saucer.





[edit on 25-3-2006 by jritzmann]

I personally think there is something to it. My own experiences convince me of it actually. There is no way I could not believe at this point. I just am trying to understand it. Trying to compare it to my own experiences helps a lot. Helps to understand my own experiences and see his experiences in a different light than most people would. I would never try to push such beliefs onto anybody. People sometimes claim that I'm all about trying to convert people to something but nothing is further from the truth. It's a very personal experience to me. Something that will not be figured out in this life time.

Originally posted by jritzmann
The motive?
As always, money. The ability to not have to worry about cashflow, and have devotees work for you in return for "divine" knowledge you'll make up and give them.
Ego? Noteriety? Possibly...his devotees are enamoured with him for sure.
There's a myriad of motives, and as I understand it since Meier is well up in age, a new "contact group" is being groomed for a possible replacement?? I dont know.
I know the case will not end with him. I also wish him no ill will. I dont say his teachings of everyone getting along, care for the earth, etc, etc, is a bad thing. But it's also common sense.

I'm not so sure that money is the number one motive in the Meier case. It's a given element like in all of our lives but I don't get the impression that it is the driving factor. Sure he has things up for sale but right now I don't see that providing an enormous income. To make a decent ammount you have to sell many copies since the publisher takes most of the profit. From my perspective and you may find this strange, money is secondary in the case.

What's the motive? It took me a while to comprehend this but I think it's the 'birthing of a new religion'. Therefore the information that the case generates itself is primary. I think the case is trying to create legend. It also took me a while to realise that Meier's contact notes 1 and 2 basically show what's on the agenda. The information therein is awfully consistent throughout the entire material. If you study contact note 1 and 2 you already know what the case is trying to do. Of course Meier himself is the focal point of the case. It all revolves around him. He's the New Age Messiah.

My advise would be to read those contact notes in order to understand what the case is about. You can already see 3 to 4 main objectives.

Since it's unlikely we'll ever know exactly how much money the Meier/FIGU collaboration has earned I think the money motive is likely. Those Swiss and there bank secrecy laws can confound anyone(go ahead and try looking into it as others have done).

For me the larger question is the truth. I abhor liars/fabricators and I've been known to hound them mercilessly(check my posts to other threads) until the truth will out. Ask yourself- if someone tells you a lie how likely is it you'll believe anything else they say?
For me the answer is zero.
You know the old adage fool me once, etc.? Well IF someone manages to fool me once then they have engendered my undying hatred. Liars are the worst kind of people, especially when they manage to get a core of followers and lead them down their merry path of deception(now they're accomplices because they further the lie).

Go ahead and buy into Meiers hokum as that is your right but understand it leads to nothing but intellectual dishonesty. Anyone with a left and right brain that function properly can see it for what it is.

But that's just me.

Great find! OMFG!!! That's priceless!

I'm probably going to use this quote from time to time....

"I'm all about peace and love....just dont sell it to me in a cakepan flying saucer. " That is certainly a quotable quote!!!

Holy crap! lol
Is it me or does that look like a mocking face?
" hahaha come inside, buy my books and get saved"........ suckers!


Any comments on the link I posted before where the guy duplicated meier photos years ago? without using computer or anything, I thought that it would bring some comments.

Well, since the moles here probably sent the Rep for the case my comments the picture link is of course broken. I saved it for posterity anyway. It really is horribly telling.

Of course its all just my opinion, hell, could have been a "gift" from some adoring rich moron.

I'd love to go read that board, but good sense is kicking in. Most likely saying how I was "defeated", and didnt replicate the shots, when of course I did... not showing how...when I did....they could go on and on. The good part now is they do without me.

I got a phone call today that said they believe I'm a paid disinformation agent. No, I'm not kidding.

Hey Manny,
Sorry I didnt get to look at the pdf earlier, but it's a great article, and pretty good example shots too. It goes to show you I'm not the first nor the last to show just how easy it is...to do even better then the case photos. Thanx for posting that, it was a neat read.

Of course the gentleman's article fell on as deaf an ear as my own efforts did, as there's just no amount of data to convince the devout.

Originally posted by jritzmann

Originally posted by TerraX
I'm not so sure that money is the number one motive in the Meier case. It's a given element like in all of our lives but I don't get the impression that it is the driving factor. Sure he has things up for sale but right now I don't see that providing an enormous income. To make a decent ammount you have to sell many copies since the publisher takes most of the profit.

I agree the "birthing a new religion" thing is another aspect of "why", but you look at ALL the books, the videos, the misc. stickers, shirts and photos sold, and you got a pretty damned good profit margin goin on. Does this look like the main entrance to the home of a guy that makes no money?

Sure, he has lots up for sale. I haven't counted all the items of the FIGU webshop but I'm sure there are a lot. What you musn't forget is that dvd sales through other persons (I wont name persons *coughhorncough*) requires that at least a medium percentage is given out. It's kinda like sharing the cake. If this is something of interest to you Jeff, the Meier case had its fair share of business deals gone bad. Meier certainly tried to make money with Lee and Brit Elders. I don't know the details but rather quickly Elders was labeled a crook which some odd 15 years later was rectified blaming the misunderstanding on others. Randy Winters who at one time gave lectures on the Meier case was also scorned later on for distributing information without approval. (On a sidenote, Randy Winters collegue was none other then Michael Horn.) Again it is hard to see the exact details in these matters. Apparently Winters acted alone in writing his Billy Meier book (no royalties to FIGU) but from his lectures it appears he was authorised to handle legal matters on behalf of FIGU. Both sides don't show the whole truth in this money raising endeavour. Therefore I suspect that both sides are at fault.

Originally posted by jritzmann
I got a phone call today that said they believe I'm a paid disinformation agent. No, I'm not kidding.

Had such an accusation as well.

Originally posted by TerraX
(On a sidenote, Randy Winters collegue was none other then Michael Horn.)

How shocking. I recall Winters working the "Adrian" or "Adrain" case out of FLA.

Another Pleadianfest.

The case later passed on to Sean Morton. Which is where I showed publicly to Morton the strings in the picture I was sent by him, along with a "shut up" letter he wrote me. He had no real reply other then giving me a personal attack response that referred to nothing in the picture. Seems to be the method of operation for these types....model citizens you know.

You have to temper the "sales" aspect I guess, if it were put forth as "we cant say this is real or not, you decide" then I'd have no issue with it. There's nothing wrong with getting paid for your efforts. It's when the twisted logic and edited testimonials put forth as fact that I cant deal with.

Of course thats all again, my opinion.

I was dissapointed when I saw the "??" at the end, then you realize that it's a signal that he's finished answering the question.

Thats a hell of a signal...that I can see being twisted into that he just doesnt know something he's answering.

Glad I saw this:
" Stanton when you have finished answering questions could you type ??"

So, Stanton pretty much says it outright...doesnt seem to be much hesitation.

There is sort a poetic justice to the ‘elusive’ Billy Meier case being such a fiasco among the public; all too evident with the well deserved (strike that as -- most entertaining) dog-fighting going on here. But after independent, open-minded photo observation on my part, considering originals prints from Switzerland as well as ‘bootleg’ sources over a period of years, these beamships seem to be the truth rather than any kind of weak attempt at UFO photo trickery to me.

Call me an amateur or even a moron for saying these look as professional as the best FX out there for the 1970s…or any time for that matter, speaking as an experienced and devote science-fiction movie fan of course. With Meier we see silver (appear actual precious metal rather than paint to me) ships of detailed design (appear almost fashionable to me) instead of looking very easily made of common ordinary household items. To me, they convincingly look like actual machines, rather than just something somebody made from scratch.

Yet of course, I don’t disagree with many here that believe these could be special effects models. But my observation skills seem to dictate that this is a remote possibility, and not the most likely; and the odds that they are fakes must be weighed against the fact that they do look authentic. Please model people: demonstrate how the Meier effects are poor workmanship, simple minded or obvious? They ‘all’ look pretty convincing to me; call me crazy. Is it not the goal of good FX to fool people into believing it is real; so conversely can it be that what is real should look like outstanding special effects?
.
Check out the Meier book “Through Space and Time,” and it’s not hard to come away as having seen real spacecraft or at the very least some of the best FX art in-or-out of the movies. It seems the experts on this board here, on BOTH sides, can’t demonstrate one way or the other if these ships are models or real spacecraft; which makes me wonder why intelligent people are totally convinced one way or other that these are totally fake or totally real..?.?.?

In our ever-changing technological world, why is it so impossible to picture flying craft in the shape of a saucer; why can’t people imagine just for a moment that scientifically sound, yet-to-be-proven exotic propulsion systems exist beyond the comfort zone of the internal combustion engine? After all, what would one expect of a 23rd century Lamborghini for example? I think the Meier photographs display a likely flying machine, especially since there are numerous worldwide photos of similar technology. To strongly suggest these are models, in my opinion, is to say that the flying disc is impossible technology; and the only logical explanation is that these are imaginary, hence the special effects.

Granted, the testimony from Meier supporters often appears as wild-eyed devotion to a seemingly creepy character; locked-up in the close-minded opinion that these beamships are without a doubt real Plejaren alien spaceships. As on the other hand, some know-it-alls even say seemingly ‘perfect’ pictures are fakes, without ever really knowing for sure. Yeah, I’m skeptical…. I’m skeptical of the people who really think they know for sure….

Very good FX, unless ya told me I would very much consider real. However, yours look like silver paint.

But the Meier Cake beamship close-ups look much better than jewelry. Please consider posting a mock with this model. I for one would love to see....

I'd love to believe you really can judge that there's paint involved from those pictures.

Of course you'd like to see cakeship pictures, but one ship is like any ship. Now thats some silver paint.

Go get some xmas balls and have at it.

So whats youre username over at PAR?