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reply posted on 10-3-2006 @ 03:37 AM by 1000lightyears
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When I read many of the debunkers' materials, mostly of them are groundless auguments aimed to discredit Meier. There are also lots of altetred
pictures by the deliberate debunkers especially in US, and trying to confuse and defame Meier.
Anyone who has a clear consciousness and mentality and think and analyze his materials and his messages, it won't take long to know this case has
genuine meaning in it, and realize all these professional American debunkers are trying everything to defame this case, but after all these 60 years,
still not one debunker can discredit his original foto, his tape, and find any evident of fraud, once for all. For example, if he is a fake, I wonder
why even the Swiss Air Force and Swiss military give so much attention and concern for this case, also why they have to confirmed publicly of Meier's
many sightings.
I think this discussion on this case is meaningless, because it's simply a endless drag on arguments by people with high conscious awareness who
think Meier is trying to convey a message and those debunkers who will debunk anything even Meier invite him for a gallatic ride. They will probably
say they are simply dreaming or hallucinating. The debunkers also include people who are jealous of his contacts with the star people, and also people
who have to debunk to make a living, or the US state sponsored debunkers, also the peopele who have all their minds shot closed from begining
completly for anything that are not taught by their American sociological religious beliefs, these people are living in a awfully small universe.
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reply posted on 10-3-2006 @ 04:04 AM by TerraX
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Hmm, this thread certainly flared up again. The usual pro and con debates. "Billy Meier is a fraud", "No, he's genius". Over the years my
impression of the man have slowly drifted towards the con position although I think there is some truth in some of his claims while other claims are
simply fabricated. Meier supporters should take a real hard look in how the case treats the rest of ufology, perhaps you'll notice that the man is a
debunker himself. Ironic, isn't it?
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reply posted on 10-3-2006 @ 08:29 AM by Shroomery
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Originally posted by jritzmann
There's a difference, your "technical mumbo jumbo" is garbage you want everyone to believe to try and prove some point. Where as I'm the only one
putting up actual data to back up my "technical mumbo jumbo".
I guess my "technical mumbo jumbo" as you call it seems to be based in reality. Where as yours seems to come from that...other place you
mentioned.
Thanks for proving my point.
You're just yelling "I'm right I'm right, you're not" and automatically you feel victorious.
I'm not gonna spend any time on kids who need to "win". I debunked your so-called proof in 5 minutes, yet you say BS and we have to believe you?
Get a grip.
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reply posted on 10-3-2006 @ 08:41 AM by Shroomery
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I love it when people keep getting back to this. Pages and pages of information of how a model is attached to a string. Lengthy formulas with precise
numbers, but wait! The video is old, grainy, blurry, and doesn't really lend itself to intricate formulas because every number you put up there is a
guess to begin with.
Not to mention that the majority who sees it will just say "oh well it has these formulas so they must be right".
Yes, it certainly looks cool but actually it means zilch. And while you're so focused on one video with pendulum movement, you forget about the other
videos where there is no movement of this kind. Convenient.
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reply posted on 10-3-2006 @ 09:20 AM by jritzmann
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Originally posted by Shroomery
Originally posted by jritzmann
There's a difference, your "technical mumbo jumbo" is garbage you want everyone to believe to try and prove some point. Where as I'm the only one
putting up actual data to back up my "technical mumbo jumbo".
I guess my "technical mumbo jumbo" as you call it seems to be based in reality. Where as yours seems to come from that...other place you
mentioned.
Thanks for proving my point.
You're just yelling "I'm right I'm right, you're not" and automatically you feel victorious.
I'm not gonna spend any time on kids who need to "win". I debunked your so-called proof in 5 minutes, yet you say BS and we have to believe you?
Get a grip.
I can assure you my grip is fine. You've spent alot fo time so far, and havent shown or proven a damn thing. Youre quick with smarmy remarks
that...well just like whats quoted above, are...nothing but a smarmy remark that...doesnt make any sense to begin with. I remember comments like this
when I was in elementary school...
"Yeah? Well my Dad can beat up your Dad!!!"
Lets get one thing abundantly clear. You didnt "debunk" sh*t. You come in here and jab at everything anyone says that disagrees with you, you post
nothing to substanciate your claims. You also refuse to put your same "analysis" to Meier's photo. Big comments on one you *know* is fake, because
I told you, yet the one you believe in is left alone.
Here's the bottom line. Youre busted. Youre just another Meier believer with an axe to grind, and nothing to back it up.
So again, bye.
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reply posted on 10-3-2006 @ 09:24 AM by jritzmann
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Originally posted by Shroomery
I love it when people keep getting back to this. Pages and pages of information of how a model is attached to a string. Lengthy formulas with precise
numbers, but wait! The video is old, grainy, blurry, and doesn't really lend itself to intricate formulas because every number you put up there is a
guess to begin with.
Not to mention that the majority who sees it will just say "oh well it has these formulas so they must be right".
Yes, it certainly looks cool but actually it means zilch. And while you're so focused on one video with pendulum movement, you forget about the other
videos where there is no movement of this kind. Convenient.
Now there's a comment that truly shows this poster for what he is. He, in his comfy armchair, and in safe distance and anonymity is now going to tell
us the whole of Macabbee's report is crap.
Macabbee, a optical physist...who has worked on SDI, and for the friggin Navy.
Nuff said. *Totally* not worth arguing with clueless people.
Gives me a headache.
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reply posted on 10-3-2006 @ 09:44 AM by vogelfire
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Well,well. Hello again, y'all.
I knew there would be some new material to look at from the recent UFO Congress. Here's what Michael Horn has to say:
I have just returned from the 15th Annual International UFO Congress Convention & Film Festival, in Laughlin, Nevada, where lead investigator
Wendelle Stevens, Christian Frehner (FIGU representative from Switzerland) and I just presented the "Meier Case Update – 2006".
I am delighted to tell you that a new, four-hour, double-DVD set of this presentation has just been completed and is now ready for release – at a
special price to my list members – and it’s a perfect companion to "The Meier Contacts" DVD.
Some of the highlights of this comprehensive new presentation include:
• CIA foreknowledge of the investigative team’s (Stevens, Lee and Brit Elders) every step (including their “secret“ travel
arrangements) and CIA knowledge of the authenticity of the Meier case
• The existence of photos of the Plejaren UFOs taken by the CIA
• Meier’s detailed description of the murder of Pope Paul VI and his accurate foretelling of the circumstances surrounding the election,
brief term – and murder – of the next Pope (John Paul I), as well as the name and circumstances of the then following Pope John Paul II
• A description of Meier’s 11 photographs of the still-to-occur San Francisco earthquake
• Meier’s meetings with Mahatma Ghandi and with numerous world leaders
• Information about Father Zimmerman, the parish priest who was young Meier’s confidant and assisted him with his mission
• The heretofore unrevealed, Indiana Jones-like exploits of Meier in the 1950s and 1960s, including his activities in the Middle East (when
he was known as "The Phantom") where he was authorized to apprehend serial killers and mass murderers
• Corroboration (in 2005) of the murder of Vatican banker Roberto Calvi (told to Meier in 1982)
• A list of the names, ages and planets of origin of over 30 of the extraterrestrial people with whom Meier has been in contact
• The devastating psychological damage to one of the Plejaren who observed atrocities during the first Gulf War
• The 11 year-old Plejaren girl’s unique (competition-winning) description of Meier’s mission
• New photographs of the UFOs taken by other people in Switzerland
• Meier’s recent excursions - to Mars and the moon! - including a trek on a Martian volcano and a description of the colors of the sunrise
there
• Information about extraterrestrials from the same lineage as Asian earth people
• The "collectibles" of Earth origin owned by the Plejaren
• The identity of the man said to be the great-great grandson of Gabriel, the Plejaren "angel" who was the actual father of Jmmanuel –
known to us as "Jesus"
• A report on the dramatic consequences of Ptaah making his UFO visible to three Swiss men who were openly skeptical about Meier’s
contacts
• The computer/internet specialist – from the Plejaren system! – who assists Meier and FIGU
• The actual number of "alien abductions" and genuine extraterrestrial contacts according to the Plejaren
Plus:
• More information from both Wendelle and Christian as they reveal details of their unique, first-hand and long-lasting personal involvement
with Meier, the witnesses and the evidence in the case
• A post-presentation question and answer period covering many, many more topics of interest!
Wendelle Stevens is one of the original investigators in the case, along with Lee and Brit Elders, private investigators who also funded the
investigation and testing of the physical evidence. Christian Frehner (who has also witnessed of the Plejaren UFOs) has been involved with Billy Meier
and FIGU since 1982 and both he and Stevens have quite a lot of previously undisclosed, first hand information on this amazing case.
This new, four-hour DVD set will soon be offered at www.theyfly.com at $45 (plus $6 shipping U.S./Canada, $13 Global Priority internationally)
but…list members can purchase the set now for only $35, plus shipping! This is more than a 20% ($10) savings over the price to the public!
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reply posted on 10-3-2006 @ 09:49 AM by vogelfire
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Forgot to mention, Jeff. "The Amazing Michael Horn" will sell his latest DVD for only $45! (inside joke, but not really. Can you post a link to
your poster or re-post it for the benefit of some new folks here?)
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reply posted on 10-3-2006 @ 09:58 AM by jritzmann
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Originally posted by vogelfire
• The "collectibles" of Earth origin owned by the Plejaren
Thats right people. Beany Babies.
This one really jumped out at me...I'd love to see what that means. Photos?
Vogel-I have to see if I still have it...might be somewhere on the HD.
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reply posted on 10-3-2006 @ 11:21 AM by vogelfire
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Before I sound like one of the "skeptics" here  I'd like to say that I've been a fierce defender of certain aspects of the Meier case. Clearly,
however, I have been unable to swallow other aspects.
Nonetheless, I would be very interested in seeing and hearing what Wendelle Stevens and Christian Frehner have to present on this latest DVD. As for
the several bulleted claims . . . once again, how are they "substantiated?!"
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reply posted on 10-3-2006 @ 12:19 PM by TerraX
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• The heretofore unrevealed, Indiana Jones-like exploits of Meier in the 1950s and 1960s, including his activities in the Middle East (when
he was known as "The Phantom") where he was authorized to apprehend serial killers and mass murderers
Absolutely fascinating. First he was on the run from the law, later he became a man of the law. Meier certainly got around. I read that he was also
known as Sheik Muhammed Abdullah. How does one become a Sheik? Great stuff for a novel.
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reply posted on 10-3-2006 @ 12:27 PM by syrinx high priest
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I'm stunned. someone defending meier has a vested financial interest ? I would have never guessed.
I'm going to hold out for the mini model of the hubcap saucer, the ray guns, and the tin foil suits. I'd go all the way up to $100 for that package
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reply posted on 10-3-2006 @ 12:44 PM by MANNYP4
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I just saw a video where they were talking about meier's telekinesis power ( which I didn't know he has) and they said he moved a 700 pounds
object. Again, not video just a picture showing what happened after  . Now why doesn't he make a video showing something like that? That would it
make us goes like WOW!.
Or he can't show his own powers either? because I thought he only can't show the aliens stuff at %100 (nice thinking there lol), but what about his
own powers and stuff why can't he show us that in a clear video with witnesses?
Maybe something like that will be shown in the new 4 hours  dvd?
I hope in 4 hours they show a concrete proof this time, not just people talking about documents they can't show or photos of objects in the air that
shows nada (Thanks to J.R.). It's 2006 now and I don't think anyone will go for a " I have proof but I can't show you" stuff again.
$51 dollars  I am imagining a lot piss off people if they buy that and at the end they will be like "Oh not again, where is the proof".
Answer : the aliens said that $51 is not enough to show %100 proof but that the next dvd which will cost $100 will show %100 proof.
[edit on 10-3-2006 by MANNYP4]
[edit on 10-3-2006 by MANNYP4]
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reply posted on 10-3-2006 @ 04:55 PM by vogelfire
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Manny, you're absolutely correct. $45 (DVD) + $6 (shipping) = $51.00 Total
Well, I myself don't have the $51.00 handy at the moment and also don't have a DVD (however much that costs): I guess I'm seriously out of the
informed loop!
I hope that someone here can keep us enlightened and up to speed.
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reply posted on 10-3-2006 @ 05:40 PM by Gazrok
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I'm sure it's somewhere in the 30 pages of this thread, but if you'd like to read where both sides presented some of their best arguments for or
against Meier....try here...
Lots of pics, and even some feedback from Meier's spokesman Michael Horn, if I remember correctly....
www.abovetopsecret.com...
I think this discussion on this case is meaningless, because it's simply a endless drag on arguments by people with high conscious awareness who
think Meier is trying to convey a message and those debunkers who will debunk anything even Meier invite him for a gallatic ride. They will probably
say they are simply dreaming or hallucinating. The debunkers also include people who are jealous of his contacts with the star people, and also people
who have to debunk to make a living, or the US state sponsored debunkers, also the peopele who have all their minds shot closed from begining
completly for anything that are not taught by their American sociological religious beliefs, these people are living in a awfully small universe.
Once we think discussion is meaningless, we then close our minds, no? Myself, I'd LOVE to believe Meier...but honestly, the evidence is very much
against him. (see the thread link if you disagree). I certainly have nothing to gain from "debunking" him, nor am I "jealous". Forget the ride,
I'd settle for one convincing photo of him actually INSIDE one of these crafts he claims to have been on so many times, and preferably not with a
human alien with five fingers (I believe he claims the aliens had 6, no?) in a gold foil jumpsuit like some of his earlier (confirmed by Meier's
camp) photos....
[edit on 10-3-2006 by Gazrok]
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reply posted on 10-3-2006 @ 05:52 PM by longhaircowboy
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Shroom-
If you'd actually read the piece you would have never said
The video is old, grainy, blurry, and doesn't really lend itself to intricate formulas because every number you put up there is a guess to
begin with.
The film was actually shot off a tv since that was as close as Meier would allow anyone with real credentials to get to it. The crew were a Japanese
film company and they got to witness the popular "wandering trees". Which the Plejarens loath because they either get in the way or vanish when
witness' are brought around.
BTW Manny those were great links.
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reply posted on 10-3-2006 @ 05:58 PM by derekcbart
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Jeff/Vogel/et. al.
I saved a copy of Jeff's Michael Horn Poster. If you U2U me your email address I will send it to you.
-Derek
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reply posted on 10-3-2006 @ 11:21 PM by MANNYP4
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Yeah, it clearly show in that link what I wanted to say here for a long time and didn't know how. If anyone see it and don't get it then they must
be blind, because I don't know about photos and yet I immediately see that there is something wrong with all meiers photos, which is a person can't
fit in those little things.
Here is another sample of deception:
thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr...
Reality:
thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr...
From the site itself:
"This pict (above) is another example of IRREFUTABLE proof of a deception, without any special equipment or software needed to analyze it. Since the
"craft" is perfectly in focus ("sharp"), while the car is completely out of focus ("blurry"), to know if this is a hoax or not, all that we need
is to answer the following question: is the "craft" in front of the car, or is it behind the car? If it is behind the car, it is definitely a big
object. This is the impression Meier intended to create... But if the "craft" is in front of the car, it is definitely a relatively small object,
much too small to carry a humanoid of normal size. The object can definitely not be above the car, and be aprox. twice the size of the car, since in
that case both the object and the car would be perfectly in focus, which is not the case. With two objects, one being in focus ("sharp") and the
other out of focus ("blurry"), while neither shape overlaps the other, it would, with all cirumstances being neutral, be impossible to tell which is
in front of the other. However, here it is the light that allows the viewer to determine that the "craft" is really IN FRONT of the car. The reason
for that is that the light source is slightly behind the camera, at its left, yet it is the object and NOT the car that is the brightest, and
receiving the most light. Therefore, the object MUST be in front of the car (hanging slightly above eye-level), and be significantly smaller to be so
much more in focus ("sharper") than the car, and brighter at the same time. There is simply no way to refute this fact... The car is aprox. 4,3m
long. We can estimate from the size of the car that the camera is aproximately at +/- 10m distance. Therefore the craft must be at most at 1m to 2m
(3.3 tot 6.6 feet) away from the camera. The craft is therefore at most +/- 1,5m (4.9 feet) large! This is in complete accord with the previous
analysis, and a perfect corroboration."
Maybe someone can post the photos direclty here because I still don't know how. They explained really good.
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reply posted on 12-3-2006 @ 12:54 PM by vogelfire
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It took sheer will and determination to locate Jeff's poster creation, "The Amazing Michael Horn." Check it out
here Scroll down a bit. Trust me, you can't miss it
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reply posted on 13-3-2006 @ 11:59 PM by vogelfire
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ATS Observers
Evidently, my post above announcing Michael Horn's latest DVD of the Billy Meier case presentation at the recent UFO Conference in Laughlin NV,
has resulted in a number of orders of the DVD, according to Michael's latest post on another site.
Hopefully, some (or many) of you who are receiving this new information (i.e. the new DVD) will share or present your views, opinions, or analyses
of it here.
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