Centrist et al,
I'm afraid you have both overlooked some things and are mistaken. First, Ike concedes a lot of accurate information to Meier, "All of these facts
are still believed true," but then tries to dismiss it with an offhanded, "All of them were reported in news articles in March 1979." Very sorry
but that doesn't - in any way shape or form - show, let alone prove, that Meier had access to them. And this is an enormously important point,
especially since there also were no "roving bands of intellectuals" who, for some unknown reason, sought out a Swiss farmer to whisper such info in
And, since we're not talking about an astronomy professor being accused of plagiarism of some readily known information, it's simply irresponsible
to attempt to gloss over or dismiss this glaringly important information. It's the kind of stuff that a whole investigation could be developed over
And, where Ike begins to quote dates for the Jupiter ring info, they're all strangely after March 9, 1979, let alone October 19, 1978, so one (if
they are objective and interested in finding the truth) is either compelled to accept the truthfulness of Meier's information or PROVE the hoax and
the conspiracy theory. Regarding Amalthea, we can concede that Meier was incorrect on its size but, since the dates that Ike gives for the correct
info on Amalthea were between March 7 and April 1, and he states that Meier must have gleaned his information AFTER it was all published - why would
he use incorrect information, especially regarding it being the innermost moon? Neither you nor Ike can have it both ways! Logic, please.
Regarding Meier's info about the surface of Io, Ike neglects to confirm what Meier said, i.e. that sulfur is indeed the dominant element on its
surface. However, when he tries to say that there was no water on Io, or that erroneous reports were what Meier relied on (again, completely illogical
because of the dates) he is quoting inconclusive info, there is still no definitive statement regarding the past presence of water on Io.
Regarding the height and speed of the ejecta, Ike is splitting hairs and makes no important point, especially since "beyond" that speed is an
indeterminate speed and Ike can't say exactly how fast, therefore, he can hardly indict Meier on this info...regarding a body in our solar system
about which nothing was known at the time Meier first published the info or when Stevens first possessed it!
In his point 7. Ike is plainly WRONG, as I have already provided info showing that a ring of jupiter is indeed composed of ionized sulfur. And he's
wrong as well when he neglects to acknowledge that Meier said that a certain amount of material fell back on the moon's surface.
8. And, since it's now acknowledged that a ring of Jupiter is indeed composed of ionized sulfur, Meier is also correct in stating it, as well as
stating that there are also dust particles in the composition of Jupiter's rings, as was later discovered (in 1998). The fact that there may also be
particles from the moons doesn't invalidate the sulfur component.
Most importantly, Ike doesn't provide - as neither do you - one single, solitary checkable, shred of evidence that the information was available and
accessible to, sought after, or plagiarized, by Meier. "Coulda" doesn't cut it. And I don't think that you will fully understand it until you
actually research it. For instance, find out in which article(s) information that you feel is critical to establishing Meier's legitimacy or hoaxing
was/were published. Find out when it would have been available, in GERMAN, where Meier lived. Find out if there's any record or indication that Meier
frequented the source, i.e. newsstand, library, university, etc. If you or Ike want to claim that an article written on March 9, for example, was
available to Meier, in German, on or about that date (when Stevens claimed that Meier gave him the document), at the very least you'd best be able to
show that such was the case and not float "theories" that are completely unsubstantiated.
So, no, Ike is NOT correct and it's not any sort of semantics on my part. People's lives have rested on such fine distinctions and proofs, on
demonstrably available or unavailable evidence, time, motive and opportunity. Since nowhere do I see you questioning just how the multitude of diverse
components in this case could possibly be accounted for by one man unless there was an outside source of assistance to whom the information was
available, which eliminates anyone known to Meier and quite possibility, all things considered, anyone on earth, a little humility might be in
And when you say, "All we know with certainty is that Meier wrote of things that were in modern science journals and international newspapers." I
say absolutely not. I already gave information regarding Vesuvius and Meier published information regarding Saturn and Venus and the two planets
beyond Pluto, as well as the info on Io that wasn't yet known and/or available to him. If you say that's wrong, then YOU prove it, come up with the
publications on all of them AND the proven availability to Meier.
Pardon me but this, "Here's the problem... each piece of evidence, to date, has fallen into two categories -- either it can't be proven that it's
fake, but fails to conclusively prove any claims (the sound and photographs) or it can't be proven to be authentic, but if it were it would be
conclusive of Meier's claims (the physical samples, whether he published technical facts before they were known on earth, etc.)." is plain nonsense.
We can and have proved that Meier forewarned about the Iraq war, not only in 1958, but also in 1995...and that was published also in the book "And
Yet They Fly!" released in September 2001 - before the war started! Not only that but several other (sequential) predictions in that book also
occurred, culminating with the very specific warning regarding the avoidable possibility of an accident at the nuclear power plant near Lyon, France
(one of 436 on the planet) - an accident which was indeed successfully averted on August 12. 2003, 8 years after he FIRST warned of it and 2 years
after it was already in the book. And the Paris information has been published since 1982 and and 1987, and is also in my DVD from 2004. Intellectual
If this was any other topic, one that didn't push so many buttons for people, you'd be all over the place with your tongue hanging out wondering how
amazing it was.
So when you write something like this, "If an alien race was concerned about the future of mankind and wanted to give us a subtle warning, I firmly
believe that they would have taken a more effective approach." all I can tell you with absolute certainty s what the Plejaren have allegedly told
Meier, i.e. that we are bringing upon ourselves our own destruction because we are simply too stupid and too arrogant to learn, from the prophecies or
anything else. And you don't have to take this personally but, unfortunately, the various internet forums are full of otherwise "intelligent"
people who don't have the ability to reason, use logic and common sense or the ability to, for just a brief moment, suspend their unspoken belief
that they are the wisest ones in the universe who, paradoxically, need to have everything spoon feed to them just the way they like it or they will
find countless "rational" reasons to reject it.
So while it may seem inconceivable to folks here, you, me and the rest of us just aren't that important. Further, we're actually so abysmally stupid
that we don't even get the cosmic joke built into this whole case - a one-armed man would get the unenviable gig of trying to gently persuade
humanity to pay attention to some larger truths and greater wisdom, while accomplishing sufficiently monumental and compelling tasks (super-human, in
fact) as to engage know-it-alls for over 40 years, who would pompously "debate" and largely ridicule his efforts, from the comfort of their little
desks and computers...and small minds.
Of course not one of them - not ONE - would trouble themselves to take their lazy asses to where these goings on still go on to find out for
themselves what the truth of the matter is. And, failing that, they'd whine and whimper and "protect" themselves from being "taken" by some "con
man", who'd put his years of research into a DVD costing less than $30, yeah, I really admire the mentality in this country. And, being so ignorant
of the laws of cause and effect (in a society largely immersed in delusional religious and political beliefs) we are like the proverbial frog in the
ever-heating water, except that we're the ones also turning up the heat on ourselves in a final gesture of suicidal arrogance and stupidity.
Sorry folks, you may think that this case is simply an (another) opportunity for mental masturbation in our already overly-entertained lives but I
don't. And I have to admire a man like Meier who, despite all the abuse from the pea-brained inhabitants of this shopping mall cum planet, still
holds some level of optimism that people will wake up in time.
So don't take offense if none of this applies to you but, if you see that it does, do take some initiative, gain the ability to think and regain the
lost ability to still be in awe of things greater and more amazing than the limitations you have placed on yourselves.
mod edit: do not circumvent the censors
[edit on 11-12-2005 by sanctum]