What does homosexuality have to do with evil?

First off I do not have an negative opinion on homosexuality. I am curious to why certain rituals, mostly those that deal with the paranormal and metephysical anyomolies use homosexual rituals as a prerequisite. I don't want to get into detail about examples, but if necessary I will post links. A few examples from memory are the Templars are rumored to practice homosexual acts in the mystic rituals. Also many articles I read on L. Ron Hubbard from scientology defectors (Crawford) where they tell of stories about envoking spirits by homosexual acts. Anyway, my question is what is the connection here and does anyone out there have any other information that could help me understand this.

Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation
I am curious to why certain rituals, mostly those that deal with the paranormal and metephysical anyomolies use homosexual rituals as a prerequisite.

You have aroused my curiosity. This is the first I have heard of it. I started reading this thread wondering why anything on Homosexuality was in the Paranormal Forum.
I'll hazard a guess, but frankly admit that I'm probably wrong. Is it because in the Christian Bible, God was so upset with homosexuality that he reportedly destroyed the communities of Sodom and Gomorrah? Maybe it is viewed by those you mentioned as "spitting in His face"?

Aliester Crowley, while maintaining that he was a heterosexual, practiced homosexual acts during various rituals.

I think he would claim that it was to arouse the imagination, without making it an issue of "forming a relationship" with the person he was working with.

Most of the women he "used" in rituals had the nasty habit of falling in love with him during the ritual.

Part of the Semitic antipathy toward homosexual acts is rooted in the concept that it's a denial of God's intent for the human race--"male and female he created them."

In the Old Testament, God tells various prophets to demonstrate how the Lord feels about Israel. He tells the prophet, "go marry a prostitute." When the prophet demurs, God says "how do you think I feel? Israel is supposed to be my bride, and there she goes again, prostituting herself with false Gods."

From a Judeo-Christian viewpoint, marriage is THE symbol of fidelity, hence faith. The faithful spouse symbolizes Christ and the church. A same-sex spouse indicates a person who is more interested in their own pleasure than living out some kind of celestial symbolism in their personal life.

If you go to one of those funky "demon-eradication" websites, they claim that demon possession/affliction is often passed along through same-sex contact.

www.demonbuster.com...

Hey, I'm just giving you info; not telling you what I believe or what you should.

Let's step out of the "bible" understanding, not saying it isn't applicable, but I am wondering if it is a prerequsite to the evil side of the "force."

Maybe there can be few explanations:

1- Sex is a quite powerful tool in magic, since it can channel LOTS of energy. Thus, if the performer is homosexual, he/she's gonna perform homosexual sex magic. Plain and simple.

2- We all know how Church has tried to "debunk" and demonyze magic... and we know how Church has been trying to fight homosexuality. They say magic is connected with the Devil, and homosexuality is connected with Devil (just think that a couple of years ago, a friend of mine had almost been "banned" from her church just because the priest discovered she was homosexual... in the 21st century!!! ); thus, they may say that magic and homosexuality are connected to each other.

About the templars, we should see the source of your infos: templars have been often discredited throughout time, so isn't it possible that this is another wrong info about them?

[edit on 16-11-2005 by Sparhawk]

[edit on 16-11-2005 by Sparhawk]

The thing is that you never hear of heterosexual sex involved in evil spirit envoking. So where did homosexuality come from? Perhaps the Nephilium were practitioners of this, and the great flood didn't erase them all. I read a book a few years back, titled the serial killers encyclopedia A-Z, and I'm certain that a vast majority of serial killers were homosexual. I feel like homosexuality is as normal as the homosexual makes it. But I am starting to believe that homosexuality is a character detriment (other than social perception) that could be a precurser to others paths of evil, depending on the willingness of the spitit to ignore those temptations. Any thoughts?

Let's not forget about the homosexual activities that supposedly go on at the Bohemian Grove, including getting a male pornstar to service them.

Well, first of all, as far as i see it, there's no good or evil. These are just two qualities our culture gived to actions, facts and thoughts. But this evaluation system may vary during times and cultures.

Speaking about homosexuality, think that in Ancient Greece it was a normal and "good" social costume: women were considered just for procreation, while true love was considered possible only between two males.

About homosexuality used in evocations, etc, i've never heard about it, so i don't really know what to think about it. On one thing i'm sure, tho: homosexuality is not a precursor of any path of evil, or at least it is as precursor as eterosexuality is

This is also the first time I heard about this, yet I hear what you're saying. Indeed.
I'm homosexual myself, and a Christian, might I add. And I feel no connection to the devil, demons or anything particularly evil. Well, not more than the next (heterosexual) person.
I think you (they) are pointing out homosexuality for some reason, and not looking at the big picture. There are many more sexual rituals than just homosexual "rituals".
Bestiality. Bondage (physically hurting your sex partner during sex). And a favorite amongst the "evil rituals"... Sex with a virgin. (And most of these take part in front of the whole communion/community.) Can we now ask what does taking a girl's virginity has to do with evil? Is it evil to have sex with a virgin?
Obviously not. Personally I think these rituals were used/chosen because it's not "socially accepted"... But that was when they first started using the rituals. Now, homosexuality is more acceptable, but they remain part of these rituals because of their historic purpose.

Well, that's my opinion. I don’t think “homosexual sex” should be taken out of the big picture and put in the spotlight on its own when you look at this.

We could also add that sex is part of many "good" rituals, also...

Gemwolf, many good points. Although I believe if you looked into stories of evil spirit rituals and spells, you will see the simularities. This is my only true question. Why the simularities and if anyone out there had a great explaination. Like I said homosexualit I don't think makes someone evil, they may just have stringer desires than another. The point is true, homosexuality has been around forever, who knows what is real anymore, society has changed the way we look at it. So who's to say, just like King Titus making it trendy to persecute Jews, time has made itself a permenant stain. So, a suggestion to my question would be, perhaps homosexual intercourse works on a higher frequency of vibration, which is needed for certain spells? I don't know, this is why I ask.

Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation
So, a suggestion to my question would be, perhaps homosexual intercourse works on a higher frequency of vibration, which is needed for certain spells? I don't know, this is why I ask.

LOL. It's funny. A very valid point/question, but funny.
I have little to no knowledge about energy/vibrations or to be precise sexual energy and the way it is connected to and used in "magic" - should it exist. But in my opinion I doubt this. Many "magic" rituals and spells - and as far as I know all "white magic" - does not contain any sexual "ingredients", thus sex is not a necessity for these spells and rituals to be a success.

And even if it did, how would they prove it, or how did they discover it?

I think you're looking to deep into this. Looking for a paranormal connection, right? I think it's more about the symbolism and doing "the wrong thing". And also a question about the availability of sex partners for a "ritual" or spell. We all know men are from Mars and women are from Venus. Women looks at sex at a much more emotional level than men. For men it's more on a physical level. Love is not a prerequisite and it’s not unknown for “straight” and/or married men – even in the times we live in today – to have sex with other men or more specific younger men and still insist that they are heterosexual. Thus it would be a lot more difficult to find a willing female for every ritual than it would be to find a willing man. It would be tough to go and find a virgin maiden for every single ritual or spell. And sex with a sheep isn't all that fun. (Not that I would know! ).
The result? You want sex at your ritual. You have a group of men all wanting sex 24/7. Hmmm...

This actually reminded me of a South Park episode where all the men "became" gay to stop the people from the future to come back to the past.... Err... What was my point? Never mind.

Keep in mind that rituals are always symbolic for something. Christians drink wine and eat bread to celebrate the death and resurrection of Jesus. Or just look at the strange rituals the Catholics have to choose a new Pope. We can make an endless list of examples.
The question should rather be, what is homosexual intercourse symbolic for during "evil" rituals, not?

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
Aliester Crowley, while maintaining that he was a heterosexual, practiced homosexual acts during various rituals.

Well he practiced homosexual acts whenever he could. Remember when he lived.. you could be imprisoned for "gross indecency". see Oscar Wilde

Originally posted by Gemwolf
Personally I think these rituals were used/chosen because it's not "socially accepted"... But that was when they first started using the rituals. Now, homosexuality is more acceptable, but they remain part of these rituals because of their historic purpose.

Bingo, the Taboo thing (or you could call it an "ick" factor) plays a large role is some sex magick. And I suppose if a homosexual had ritual sex with the opposite sex, the same thing might result.

Gem, They tuke er jobs!

Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation
First off I do not have an negative opinion on homosexuality. I am curious to why certain rituals, mostly those that deal with the paranormal and metephysical anyomolies use homosexual rituals as a prerequisite. I don't want to get into detail about examples, but if necessary I will post links. A few examples from memory are the Templars are rumored to practice homosexual acts in the mystic rituals. Also many articles I read on L. Ron Hubbard from scientology defectors (Crawford) where they tell of stories about envoking spirits by homosexual acts. Anyway, my question is what is the connection here and does anyone out there have any other information that could help me understand this.

I am Wiccan, and a student of the occult, and never once have I observed nor partaken in a ritual involving homosexuality. Ive known many homosexual Wiccans who might have used sex magick in a ritual, but sex magick is not necessarily evil. It depends on the purpose and intent of the ritual.

I have seen rituals in books that are supposed to invoke "evil spirits" but none involve homosexuality.

I honestly dont believe there is any general connection between homosexual acts and black magick. It all has to do with the individual.

Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation
Gem, They tuke er jobs!

Lol!!! That's the one!

I think the Judeo-Christian tradition of aversion to sexual matters has its roots in some form of Gnostic or mystic traditions. The act of sex is of course physically gratifying (in theory) and therefore only tolerated to the extent of heterosexual practices based on reproduction.

If you consider sex (as a physical act) to be evil, then any form of unnecessary (non-reproductive) sex act would of course be worse because of its purely physically gratifying (for some) nature.

Of course by this logic, anything chosen for physical enjoyment beyond the needs to sustain life, such eating a candy bar instead of lettuce if both are available, could be used to enhance "evil magic."

... I have read about rumors of ancient "left hand tantra". From what I read, all the true knowledge of this was destroyed ages ago. From what I read some Hindu and perhaps Indian Buddhist practiced this to acheive extreemly strong "black magic".

Perhaps it was by activating or agitating the lowest chakra through ritual
homesexual act that this magic was acheived...

There is apparently some information on the wikipedia web site,
although they seem to suggest that the Knight Templars may have used it..
( I can't open the wikipedia site, for some reason)

[edit on 17-11-2005 by cosmokatt7]

[edit on 17-11-2005 by cosmokatt7]

Originally posted by cavscout
I think the Judeo-Christian tradition of aversion to sexual matters has its roots in some form of Gnostic or mystic traditions. The act of sex is of course physically gratifying (in theory) and therefore only tolerated to the extent of heterosexual practices based on reproduction.

If you consider sex (as a physical act) to be evil, then any form of unnecessary (non-reproductive) sex act would of course be worse because of its purely physically gratifying (for some) nature.

Of course by this logic, anything chosen for physical enjoyment beyond the needs to sustain life, such eating a candy bar instead of lettuce if both are available, could be used to enhance "evil magic."

Thats how I always understood it as well. Incidently thats why the Catholic church doesn't agree with condoms. Sex without procreation is just for pleasure and so it's bad. Thats why the 'modern' christian churches are having such a struggle at the moment because on one hand they are saying sex within marriage is great and being christian doesn't mean that you cannot have a great sex life. And yet they also still disagree with homosexuality but they can't really say much about it apart from scraping the bottom of the barrel with some ridiculous laws from leviticus, which make a mokery of the whole thing. Of course they can't say you can't have sex for pleasure in this day and age though, everyone would just leave the church.

Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation
Also many articles I read on L. Ron Hubbard from scientology defectors (Crawford) where they tell of stories about envoking spirits by homosexual acts.

Interesting topic, but that one line from the start of the thread has me wondering.
I was in Scientology for many years and worked in most of the major centers around North America, and this comes as news to me. This would be considered an "out 2D sit" in Scientology. (something wrong with your 2nd Dynamic)

Any link to further information on this aspect of LRH would interest me.
Please post a source if you have one. Thanks..........