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Dalai Lama: Tibet needs China

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posted on Nov, 15 2005 @ 08:54 PM
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Nov 14, 2005

The Dalai Lama, the exiled spiritual leader of Tibet, said on Monday that his country should remain within China for the sake of its economic development.

But the 70-year-old leader said the Tibetan people themselves would have to determine their future if China continued to deny them real autonomy.

"If Chinese government provides us meaningful autonomy, self law, then it is in our own interest to remain within the People's Republic of China," said the Dalai Lama, who has lived in India since he fled from Chinese troops in 1959.

As far as economic development was concerned, Tibet would get immense benefit if it remained part of China, he told a 16,000 strong gathering in Washington, where he is on 10-day visit that includes talks with US President George W Bush.

"Tibet is economically backward, although spiritually highly advanced. But spiritual (strength) alone cannot fill our stomach. So we need economic development," he said.

"If this approach should fail, then of course it is up to the Tibetan people. I'm going to ask the Tibetan people what to do."

China formally established a Tibetan Autonomous Region in 1965 but the Dalai Lama has said there is no genuine autonomy. He has been waging a non-violent campaign to press China to provide greater rights for Tibet's six million people.

China sees its occupation of Tibet since 1950 as a liberation of the region which has saved the Tibetan people from feudal oppression.


www.tvnz.co.nz...




posted on Nov, 15 2005 @ 09:09 PM
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LOL!!!
Boy that dalai Lama really lost his marbles on that one. He fled the chinese, his people are masacred, his country is overrun, the monastries are destroyed, now he wants them to stay???

What he been smoking. The Drugs in Daramsala must have just got a lot stronger ....



posted on Nov, 15 2005 @ 09:21 PM
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Um.. I ono but I think the Dalai Lama knows wuts better for his people than you do. I ono im just taking a guess.



posted on Nov, 15 2005 @ 09:23 PM
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China has directly or indirectly caused the deaths of more than 1.5 million Tibetans. They have transferred more than 7 million ethnic Chinese into Tibet, making Tibetans minorities in their own country and causing shortages in land and food. China has built nuclear missile sites on Tibetan soil and uses the country as its nuclear waste dumping ground. It is aggressively clear-cutting forests for lumber. Some 6,000 Buddhist monasteries have been destroyed along with countless rare Buddhist manuscripts and artifacts have either been destroyed or sold.

Yeah Tibet needs China like I need a hole in the head



posted on Nov, 15 2005 @ 09:30 PM
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What? What!?

This can't be right. Economic development is pretty irrelevant to people who have trained themselves not to desire material things.

There has to be more to this story. I'm in shock.



posted on Nov, 15 2005 @ 09:46 PM
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I suspect that TIbetian buddhism's claim to being non materialistic is merely a response to a situation where the people had nothing anyway, and tried to make the best of their situation.

Once they actualy have the chance to get educated, material posessions like TV's cars, medicine etc, it all goes out the window.

Unless of course you are some disillusioned western individual who already has every material posession, and being comfortable can dabble in the illision of having nothing and becoming spiritual by going oommm and meditating.



posted on Nov, 15 2005 @ 09:54 PM
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Tibet is a region chock full of people of many types... it's not all Buddhist monks.

I think he has the right viewpoint. He still wants freedom but the people's welfare comes first. He can't put his own principles or desires above what would be good for Tibetans. Why try to agitate China when you can work with them. Many Taiwanese think the same.



posted on Nov, 15 2005 @ 10:17 PM
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Originally posted by k4rupt
The Dalai Lama, the exiled spiritual leader of Tibet, said on Monday that his country should remain within China for the sake of its economic development.



THey killed lots of tibetans during their brutal imperialistic invasion and occupation, nearly exterminated buddhism in the country, and are the reason why the Dali Lama of Tibet can't go near it, and he thinks that 'its all good' as long as there some moola to go around?



posted on Nov, 15 2005 @ 10:22 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan

THey killed lots of tibetans during their brutal imperialistic invasion and occupation, nearly exterminated buddhism in the country, and are the reason why the Dali Lama of Tibet can't go near it, and he thinks that 'its all good' as long as there some moola to go around?


I don't think that's what he thinks. I think he thinks there's no point increasing suffering by antagonizing China when his people have a slim chance of prosperity by sharing in China's. He's only telling it like it is- he's retaining his demands for autonomy, which is all he can do- if he incites the people of Tibet to rise against China, that will only cause bad things for Tibet. He's not thinking about the past, he's thinking about the future.



posted on Nov, 15 2005 @ 10:36 PM
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Lemme ask you guys, have any of you ever even been to Tibet and talked to a Tibetan? Have you guys ever asked a Tibetan how his grandfather lived and ask him how he lives and ask about the comparison?


Now, are you guys claiming u know wuts better for the tibetan people more than the dalai lama himself?



You guys think your never wrong huh?

[edit on 15-11-2005 by k4rupt]



posted on Nov, 15 2005 @ 10:48 PM
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I believe that they're just saying that it's rather strange for the Dalai Lama to say such a thing.

I say if he feels so secure about Tibet being part of China, why isn't he back there now? Wouldn't it be better for him to be with his people?



posted on Nov, 15 2005 @ 11:44 PM
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The Dalai Lama line is being corrupted by China. According to ancient tradition, the Dalai Lama selects the new Panchen Lama when the old one dies and vice versa, following divine signs and omens. In 1995 the exiled Dalai Lama chose Gedhun Choekyi Nyima, a six-year-old boy, as the reincarnation of the former Panchen Lama, who died in 1989 aged 50.

Chinese police swiftly placed the boy under house arrest.He has been "Disappeared" by the Chinese government since May 17, 1995. His fate is unknown to this day.

Beijing selected its own candidate, Gyaincain Norbu, and has since trumpeted his legitimacy. So this "Chinese Panchen" not the true Panchen Lama but a puppet of China will get to one day pick the reincarnation of the Dalai Lama when the current one dies. This is a corruption of the true line.

Gaydun Choekyi Nyima the true Panchen Lama the one that is suppose to be able to reconize the reincarnation of the Dalai Lama is missing thanks to China. Gendhun Choekyi Nyima is one of the most important religious figures in Tibetan Buddhism, more importantly, he is a child who has been illegally detained since the age of six perhaps even murdered since nobody has seen him in so long.



posted on Nov, 16 2005 @ 08:58 AM
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Originally posted by k4rupt
a Tibetan how his grandfather lived and ask him how he lives and ask about the comparison?

Lets also keep in mind that the Tibetans lamas soaked up all the money of the people of tibet, in the forms of offerings and gifts to their temples. The communist idea that 'religion in the opiate of the masses' is perhaps most clearly laid out in lama ruled tibet, and the removal of that religion and the implementation of communist methods has certainly changed that.

Of course, you can't ask the thousands who are dead because of the communists just how much better things are now for them



e you guys claiming u know wuts better for the tibetan people more than the dalai lama himself?

The dali lama has been in tibet as much as I have for the past few decades. Heck, he can't even go to tibet, but I could, in theory anyway.


We understand what he's saying, he's saying, 'heck, the tibetans have more stuff now and their society is more modern, thats good, maybe we shouldn't struggle against the occupation'. Thats a valid opinion. Silly, and sort of stomping on teh graves of everyone that was exterminated by the communists in the invasion, and again, ironic, considering that if the lama went back to tibet he'd be arrested and that the communists are trying to wipe out the buddhist religion. But he 's saying, the tibetans are better off lossing buddhism and having the temples torn down and the relgion replaced by state medical expenditures and state sponsored farms, and the like.



posted on Nov, 16 2005 @ 12:15 PM
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What is also suprising is that many people in Amnesty International and other orgs have campaigned for a free Tibet protesting outside chinese embasies, and chinese offical tours for many years.

There have been heaps of documentaries on the abuses against the tibetian people as well. This is not a minor issue.

Then to have the leader of the Tibetian nation to come out and say the status quo is better is really strange. It destroys years of campaigning and work. BTW k4rupt although I havn't been to Tibet I have been to "Little Tibet" in Northern Indai and talke to Tibetians exiled there. They all wanted to visit home eventually.



posted on Nov, 16 2005 @ 12:21 PM
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Looks to me like this is a compromise position, pragmatic, and a fairly typically Buddhist one. It's not capitulation - the DL is calling for economic integration with China, with Tibetan autonomy in other spheres.

Makes sense to me - and probably is more attainable than a distinct and fully autonomous "Free Tibet."



posted on Nov, 16 2005 @ 08:49 PM
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Hm... have you guys wondered if maybe Tibet really is better under China?

Ever even THOUGHT about it?

Guess not, just gotta find more crap to throw at China huh?



posted on Nov, 16 2005 @ 09:13 PM
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Originally posted by k4rupt
Hm... have you guys wondered if maybe Tibet really is better under China?

Ever even THOUGHT about it?


Honestly, no, I haven't. But from your tone I'd say that you certainly have. Why don't you enlighten us, huh?


just gotta find more crap to throw at China huh?


Hey, it's certainly not our fault that China has crapped up the facts!



posted on Nov, 16 2005 @ 10:19 PM
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On the other hand, this whole thing seems very 'buhddist', very 'zen', taking it to the level of saying 'if the people are happier without the lamas, then no need for the lamas, whatever is best'



posted on Nov, 16 2005 @ 10:37 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
On the other hand, this whole thing seems very 'buhddist', very 'zen', taking it to the level of saying 'if the people are happier without the lamas, then no need for the lamas, whatever is best'


Maybe he should go to Peru. They like Lama's there.....

I do see where he is coming from though. It could be likened to the Scottish. Sure, they'd like there own little, wind swept hillside, but they realise that being part of the UK is far better for them than being stuck on their own, economically speaking.

Legally, they have their own Parliament so can do what they will, but economically, they benefit from being part of the 4th Largest economy in the world and get a whole boat load of cash from the English tax payer to prop up their quaint little "country"



posted on Nov, 16 2005 @ 10:38 PM
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1.5 mill tibetans did not die, even anti-communist books like "The Black Book of Communism" doubts that figure and thinks its actually below200,000.

en.wikipedia.org...

"Chosgyi Gyantsen, the 10th Panchen Lama, was an important political figure in Tibet following the 14th Dalai Lama's escape to India in 1959. However, in 1968 he was imprisoned; in 1977, he was released but held under house arrest in Beijing until 1982. In 1983, he married a Chinese woman and had a daughter, a highly controversial behavior for a Gelug lama. In 1989, the 10th Panchen Lama died suddenly in Shigatse, Tibet at the age of 51, shortly after giving a speech critical of the Chinese occupation. His daughter, now a young woman, is Yabshi Pan Rinzinwangmo, better known as "Renji". Although some right-wing organizations have criticized the 10th Panchen Lama as a Chinese puppet (or worse), most scholars (and the 14th Dalai Lama) believe that he did the best that he could to help his people in an impossible situation.

The current Dalai Lama, Tenzin Gyatso (Brtan-'dzin Rgya-mtsho), named Gedhun Choekyi Nyima (Dge-'dun Chos-kyi Nyi-ma) as the 11th reincarnation of the Panchen Lama on May 14, 1995 but the government of the People's Republic of China quickly named another child, Gyancain Norbu (Rgyal-mtshan Nor-bu). The former child was taken into "protective custody" by the PRC authorities and his whereabouts remain unknown."

While I disagree with my government arresting the 6 year old boy, I say that my respect for the Dalai Lama has increased considerably.

Also, Tibetans are not a minority in their region, infact if you look at the demographics its reverse, Han Chinese only outnumber them if you include several large areas that are not part of modern tibet.



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