Boeing Launches New 747-8 Family

Ah the game is afoot in the LCA sector. While it will never carry as much as the A380 which is a all new A/C and thus has way more future stretch potential than the 747, Boeing today officaly launched the 747-8. All Nipon Cargo, and CargoLux have firm orders and options for a total of 34 of the planes. All frieghters I would like to note. The new 747-8 will use technology including the engines from the all new 787. This will make it quieter and more efficient. You have to take it with a grain of salt, but Boeing is claiming an 8% lower cost per seat mile than the A380. The passanger version will seat 34 more seats than the 747-400. I wonder if a composite 747 was kicked around?

SEATTLE, Nov. 14, 2005 -- The Boeing Company [NYSE: BA] today officially launched the new Boeing 747-8 program, which includes the 747-8 Intercontinental passenger airplane and the 747-8 Freighter airplane.

Cargolux, based in Luxembourg, has ordered 10 747-8 Freighters and will take delivery of the first 747-8F in third-quarter 2009. It also holds purchase rights for 10 additional airplanes. Cargolux currently operates an all-Boeing fleet of 13 747-400 freighters.
www.boeing.com...

I can easily believe an 8% seat mile reduction over any previous 747 but I'd be intersted to see how they calculate it over an A380?

The fact that the launch orders are all for cargo aircraft may be telling, or it may be a co-incidence, time will tell, But launching a new 747 variant this late into the A380's development programme does appear to be shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted, Boeing were studying 'super 747's' even before Airbus decided to play. They never saw the need before, have they realised they goofed or do they know something we don't? (well obviously they know plenty that we don't but you get the gist)

Very interesting.

I have trouble believing the 8% per seat mile advantage over the A380.


A updated (old) airframe should never be better than a bespoke and new design.

Originally posted by waynos
I can easily believe an 8% seat mile reduction over any previous 747 but I'd be intersted to see how they calculate it over an A380?

Yeah AWST had a few articles the last few weeks and both sides are using data selectivly to build at least a public case for things. If they really can reduce costs to that much below a A380 then that would be a factor.

Im not sure what thier motivation for it is. I have seen some literature that talks about a 'gap between the A340-600 and the A380 in terms of seat counts. It may be a bit of an advantage in that segment if there is a market (I have no idea). I think that Boeing is sticking with thier market forcasts, but does not want to give up the area in its entirety.

My question is this: Could the engines for the A350 be fitted onto the A380 and give a similar improvment?

Originally posted by kilcoo316
I have trouble believing the 8% per seat mile advantage over the A380.
A updated (old) airframe should never be better than a bespoke and new design.

The 747 was a pretty efficient airframe. From the concept pictures It looks like an all new wing and most of the improvement will be coming from the engines themselves. It may just be the way they are accounting for it, but I doubt its impossible however.

the 747 is still one of the fastest passenger jets in the business. Stretching it and giving it the VERY powerful and efficient 777 engines is a great idea. isn't the triple 7 more efficient on a per seat basis than the 380 anyway? From the numbers I've seen I haven't been very threatened by the airbus deal. (I work in the aerospace industry). The only thing that has me worried is that most countries like to use big airline contracts as political soapboxes. I'm more afraid that we (the US) will lose contracts because most of the countries that are buying large quantities of new aircraft do not like our country and do not want to put any money into our economy.

actually, I've already played out this scenario on some flight sims. the hot-rod 747 is a winner.

[edit on 15-11-2005 by revkev6]

Actualy they will be using the engines from the 787 not the 777. I do not think that the 777 is more efficicent per seat mile than the A380. But that assumes several factors. THe least of which is load factor. The A380 will be flown on routes that have really high load factors. In many cases it will allow 1 flight instead of 2 hence if its fully loaded and you have to make one les flight, its efficency doubles.

The 777 is very efficient but in the scenario described above, it may have to make two flights instead of one.

I just read the article. seems they are saying it is 8% more efficient than the current 747-400 not the A380. the only thing they claim about the A380 is 22% lower total trip costs. that isn't taking into account that the A380 holds more per trip. that's like saying a cessna 152 is 99.9% more efficient per trip than a C-5b galaxy

You are correct, It was pretty late last night when I posted it. My bad

Originally posted by waynos
I can easily believe an 8% seat mile reduction over any previous 747 but I'd be intersted to see how they calculate it over an A380?

Good, aren't I.

will it use the same wings? since the GEnx engines are quiet abit bigger then the current 747 ones.

I cant judge their comment about the new 747 being 8% cheaper on the seat-per-mile cost. But their comment that they are 22% cheaper per seat/mile and 20% cheaper in freight trip costs than the A380 is an absolutely fabricated statement.

That would mean that the A380 is 15% more expensive per seat than the existing 747-400 - which is obviously not true, else Airbus would not have built that thing.

Originally posted by Murcielago
will it use the same wings? since the GEnx engines are quiet abit bigger then the current 747 ones.

Just look the picture. The wings are abit different.

Originally posted by jetsetter

Originally posted by Murcielago
will it use the same wings? since the GEnx engines are quiet abit bigger then the current 747 ones.

Just look the picture. The wings are abit different.

yeah, I noticed that, but I wasn't sure if it looked different because of the angle, or if Boeing tried to make the 747 look more futuristic in the artist rendering for the "wow" factor.

But yes...apparently it will have new curved wings.

Boeing’s new 747-8 Intercontinental passenger airplane and the 747-8 Freighter airplane took a bow before the world’s media yesterday with its distinctive curved wings. Both versions of the new 747 will feature GE's 787-technology GEnx engines, meet Stage 4 and QC2 noise requirements, have reduced emissions, offer lower trip costs and have an upgraded flight deck and an improved wing.

[edit on 16-11-2005 by Murcielago]

I think the term 'improved wing' that is used in the blurb points to it being the standard 747 wing design but with the upswept tips visible in the rendering and most likely some reduced structural weight. If it were a new wing I think the blurb would emphatically shout out the fact that Boeing were offering it with 'all-new high efficiency wing design just like the 787!'

747.newairplane.com...

found the site for the new 747 if any one wants to go and check it out. they also do say that it is going to use the tech from the 787 dreamstar liner in the site. Anything that the companies are willing to do to hep with noise and pollution is a good thing.
I got to see the bombardier Q-400 this year at the toronto airshow and holy crap that thing is sooooooo quite. They used the Q in the name to mean quite and I think they have every right to after seeing the thing fly. for the shorter hauls this plane will be awesome.