Senator McCain, your comment please?

Originally posted by Jakomo

I'm done arguing with you. Your world is all black and white, apples and oranges.

and whats wrong with seeing the world in Black and White......apples and oranges...Good and Evil??

Sometimes its a good thing to be "simplistic" and put things in their proper place.

If a terrorist is caught too late and the FBI know he has already planted a WMD in Manhattan...I think he should be tortured in the worst way possible to save the lives of millions....would you rather we spare him any pain and let the WMD go off?

If (God Forbid) a WMD does goes off in NYC...would'nt countless innocent people be "tortured" beyond belief?

War is Hell, the sooner you and your kind understand that...the sooner we can squash these cockroaches and move on. McCain is way outta line and perhaps its time for him to step aside and let clearer minds take the reins.

Maximu§

LA_Maximus:

and whats wrong with seeing the world in Black and White......apples and oranges...Good and Evil??

Sometimes its a good thing to be "simplistic" and put things in their proper place.

Well, I would tend to strongly disagree with that. The WORLD is not black-and-white whatsoever. You yourself make decisions based on PERSONAL experience, based on LEARNED and TAUGHT ideals. So does everyone else.

Life is not a comic book. There is no "absolute" evil any more than there is any "absolute" good. Seeing the world like that will only cause you pain and disenfranchisement.

If a terrorist is caught too late and the FBI know he has already planted a WMD in Manhattan...I think he should be tortured in the worst way possible to save the lives of millions....would you rather we spare him any pain and let the WMD go off?

Yeah well that's your opinion. Torture does not work.

And your "intelligence" agencies couldn't protect you from 9/11 even though they had plenty of warning, so what makes you think they'll be able to do anything next time? IF a terrorist planted a WMD that was about to explode in NYC, do you really think the FBI would know anything about it until after it exploded? Do you REALLY believe that there is anything that ANYONE can do to guarantee your 100% safety 24 hours a day?

If (God Forbid) a WMD does goes off in NYC...would'nt countless innocent people be "tortured" beyond belief?

Maybe. But it hasn't happened. We're not talking about torturing a person who has just planted a WMD. We are talking about torturing some SUSPECTED terrorist in a foreign prison somewhere. There are stories ALL OVER the net about people who have been tortured by US forces (or extradited to countries that did (see Maher Arar)). None of these people had planted a WMD that was rigged to go off. None of them.

War is Hell, the sooner you and your kind understand that...the sooner we can squash these cockroaches and move on. McCain is way outta line and perhaps its time for him to step aside and let clearer minds take the reins

Haha, what is "my kind"? Is this another black vs white thing? Because if it is, I am clearly on the side of human compassion and clear, level-headed thinking. What is your opposite?

I trust John McCain to comment on torture far more than I trust your views on it. Even if he IS Republican. He seems like a stand-up guy.

And yes, War IS Hell. But YOU started this war. So that kinda makes your country at least a little closer to being the Great Satan that they call you, huh?


jako





[edit on 13-12-2005 by Jakomo]

First off, this war that we supposedly started, actually has its origins back several centuries, and is merely (merely?) a continuation of it. It comes down to two incompatible quasi-religious/political belief systems trying to destroy each other. I hate to break this to you all, but pick a side.
This is a fight to the death, us or them, losers get sent to the wall, etc.
It doesn't get much more black and white than that. It is regretful that such methods of interrogation are neccesitated by circumstances. However, sometimes, it is neccesary to utilize unsavory means to accomplish the goal of a war. Remember, the operative word here is war.
And we dare not forget otherwise.
Truely I do wish it was otherwise, but to my mind it's not. Pick your side.

Originally posted by seagull
Pick your side.

Well, I pick the side that doesn't torture people to death.
Which side is that?

Dug out this really old thread that discusses torture as United States policy, unstated, but in all likelihood used as deemed necessary.

Recently on ATS there was a thread discussing how a naturalized American of Pakistani decent, who just incidentally happens to be Muslim should be, according to Sen. John McCain (R-Az.), denied his protections under Miranda...

I find it odd, that Sen. McCain would advocate such a thing given his own experiences as a POW in Vietnam. Not exactly parallel, true...but the abuses that could occur would be in very much the same vein.

Protection under the law -vs- the very real need to protect our fellow citizens. The area covered is murky to say the least...

In an aside: Somewhat amusing to discover how my views have changed over the past few years... I'm such a dove now, in comparison...