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NEWS: UN Children's Fund To Vaccinate 800000 Pakistan Quake Hit Children

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posted on Nov, 15 2005 @ 08:30 PM
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Originally posted by Eye Of Ra
Dear mr Hamburglar....


Dear Lord in Heaven, forgive me for taking the bait and responding to a child. I'll do my best to restrain my viscious, attack-dog nature...

Dearest Eye of Ra,

So sorry to hear about your childhood travails. I too have suffered the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune. I think most folks have. I don’t doubt that you have Vitiligo, and I don’t doubt that there is no family history. There often is not:


and most people with vitiligo do not have a family history of the disorder.


www.niams.nih.gov...

Also, the cause of Vitiligo is unknown. People have suggested many causes, such as:


One theory is that people develop antibodies that destroy the melanocytes in their own bodies. Another theory is that melanocytes destroy themselves. Finally, some people have reported that a single event such as sunburn or emotional distress triggered vitiligo; however, these events have not been scientifically proven to cause vitiligo.


www.niams.nih.gov...

I’m sure you know this already. It is unfortunate that the cause is unknown, but here is the rub, there is no scientific evidence to support the notion that MMR vaccines cause Vitiligo (or Autism or IBD, for that matter).

You are obviously Internet-savvy. Look it up for yourself. Try starting with www.cdc.gov...

It’s a list of fact sheets about vaccines and ingredients from the CDC.


Originally posted by Eye Of Ra
I have been told by doctors that the patches that began a week after I was given the Vaccines caused the breaks outs. There is no family history of patchy skin, and don't you think if the doctors would have lied to me when they said "we don't recomend any futher vaccines until we know whats going on" then the case would be that I do have Vitilago and would continue to break out instead of having stopped with the patches I recieved when I broke out?


I honestly don’t understand what you wrote here. Not trying to be mean. Can you please clarify? As a writer, I used to suggest that people try writing in shorter sentences to help their meaning come through (you can tell I don’t take my own advice in that regard).

I’ll take a stab at it anyway. Forgive me if I misinterpreted something.

If I understand correctly, you are saying that you pointed out the patches to doctors, they said wait on the next shot, and then they said you have Vitiligo. Finally, I think you are suggesting that since if you had Vitiligo, and were not just reacting to the vaccine, you should have even more patches today. I’m guessing that you don’t, and I’m further guessing that you take that as evidence that you don’t have Vitiligo.

If that is true, then I’m sorry to say that Vitiligo, while usually progressive, may or may not spread. Just because you haven’t experienced any more patches, doesn’t mean that you don’t have Vitiligo. I’m assuming you’ve seen a specialist about this. Ask him/her. Don’t just take my word for it.

And again, to echo Valhall, sometimes life aint fair. It’s sad, it sucks, but it’s true. Take me. I lost much of my hair (my once beautiful, soft, full, luxuriant hair) by 22 years old. At first I thought endlessly about what caused it. I thought it was because I wore hats too much, or maybe I used bad shampoo, or not enough conditioner, or maybe had a bad diet, or maybe it was a vaccine, or maybe it was that time I fell asleep at a party and the guys put peanut butter in my hair. Do you see what I’m getting at?

I thought about it CONSTANTLY, until I finally realized that thinking about it more was useless. There is no known “cause” of baldness, and no amount of blame was going to grow my hair back. So, I embraced it, shaved my head, and now once again think I am quite the hottie. I’m not belittling your situation, only showing you that seeking to blame is a natural instinct, but not always the correct one.

See (I’m the bald one):

img340.imageshack.us...
img340.imageshack.us...
img340.imageshack.us...


Originally posted by Eye Of Ra
as for your attack on my mothers handling of these news, fair enough that you have an opinion, but its clear that well my mother has hers, I find it really immature and anoying how some people act when their opinions doesn't seem to take on the other, people have opinions and morals for a reason, and thats to be strong to them....take a chill pill dude...not everyone one in this crazy a$$ world will appear normal to you, and not everyone will rush out to chance a lifetime of opinions to suit yours.


Again, this is one long sentence, so the meaning is not totally clear. I will say that I didn’t attack her handling, only her conclusions. There is a difference between attacking a person and attacking an argument.


Originally posted by Eye Of Ra
as for my mothers parenting skills...HOW DARE YOU! you don't know my mother!


I respectfully disagree that I attacked Mrs. Mayet’s parenting skills.


Originally posted by Eye Of Ra
well said, couldn't have put it better myself, I'm sure these children have lost everything, the better thing to do would be using that moneys giving them food, shelter, clothing, education etc.


Perhaps you don’t realize that, as Valhall noted, and I said before, there is money for both. We don’t throw away food every time we give a shot. UNICEF is not sacrificing nutrition, food, shelter, clothing, education, etc., in order to give these shots.

I hope you can recognize that nothing I’ve said is meant to hurt you personally. I don’t agree with your position (or Mrs. Mayet’s position) on vaccination, but that doesn’t mean either one of us is a bad person.

Kind regards,

Ham “The Bald Adonis” burglar




posted on Nov, 16 2005 @ 01:46 AM
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You did hurt me and my brothers and my mother too by what you said. I am an adult well in Australia anyway I can vote and I can go out drinking legally. I think the term you were looking for is young adult
.

Dr Salmon and Dr Sen both recorded the patches as a direct consequence of the vaccine. They said it wasn't Vitilago in the sense is was caused by the vaccine not the usual reasons a person gets these patches. In the sentence you were unclear on I was saying the patches stopped forming in a matter of weeks and no new patches have started since.

i am sorry that I came across as being hostile it is something I have had to put up with since I was young and many people have the same opinion as you, I prefer to trust my doctors opinions and it gets annoying when people do not understand. I guess I had to explain it to one to many people. It was caused by the vaccine. It occured a week after the vaccine. Vitilago just comes up on the skin, these patches only came where my clothes rubbed me and where I fell over and damaged my skin.

and also I was a bit upset with the comments about my mum because she has done a very good job raising all of us children. I hope we are clear now but please understand the reasons behind my strong opinion on this matter.



posted on Nov, 16 2005 @ 10:07 AM
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Actually, Hamburglar, you made an attack on her sanity.



raging paranoia


Like it or not, that is a personnal attack and has no place in any debate. Especailly since it can easily be reversed when both of you have placed evidence attempting to display your points.

I could easily base an arguement on your 'blind loyalty' to the Government or MediCare Companies, but there is no need for me to do that or to make an arguement about that or to even place it into a debate.

However, how can you argue that the MMR vaccine is a good thing? There have been no long lasting studies on its effects to human's and we do not know what it could do to children 10years down the line. If it was tested properly, I would be all for it but I have yet to see such tests.

If you look into many of the studies and read up on the methods they use they are highly questionnable. Which the Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons has already brought to light but been forced into the background...so as not to cause a panic.

What if the drug is as bad as people claim? Is it worth the risk or should they attempt to keep them healthy and increase the likelyhood of them beating other illnesses?



posted on Nov, 16 2005 @ 12:51 PM
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Originally posted by Odium
Actually, Hamburglar, you made an attack on her sanity.



Actually, I'm sorry, but this is a false accusation. The only way you can attack some one's sanity is to perpetrate a "gaslight" on them. Unless Hamburglar is shaking her light fixtures and moving her belongings...I'm thinking him voicing a perception of paranoia is NOT a gaslight attempt.

Opposing views - you don't have to love them, you just have to live with them.



posted on Nov, 16 2005 @ 01:46 PM
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Originally posted by Odium
Actually, Hamburglar, you made an attack on her sanity.



raging paranoia


Like it or not, that is a personnal attack and has no place in any debate. Especailly since it can easily be reversed when both of you have placed evidence attempting to display your points.


No, it's not. And are you kidding? Out of 2,000 some-odd words of text on this issue that I've written, you are going to suggest two words make my whole posts nothing but personal attacks? I'm allowed to question someone's sanity, and I'm further allowed to point out someone's irrational, ill-supported attacks on something like MMR, without the feel-good police claiming it's a personal attack.


Originally posted by Odium
I could easily base an arguement on your 'blind loyalty' to the Government or MediCare Companies, but there is no need for me to do that or to make an arguement about that or to even place it into a debate.


Uhhh... You could sure try, but you wouldn't get very far. To which government do I pledge allegiance? That might explain my willingness to listen to CDC, but what about WHO? What about UNICEF, what about my source from the Canadian Health Ministry? These all represent different governments or no governments at all. You’d be hard-pressed to make any kind of case.

As for MediCare, you brought that up, not me. Don’t put words in my mouth, then try to base an argument on them.

In short, about the only “blind loyalty” I have is to SOUND SCIENCE; VETTED, MEDICAL EXPERTS; AND THE PREPONDERANCE OF DATA AND EVIDENCE. Go ahead and suggest that. I’m okay with that. That means I’m not a slave to “raging paranoia.” I’m comfortable with that.


Originally posted by Odium
However, how can you argue that the MMR vaccine is a good thing?


Simple, if you look a few posts back, I linked for you a chart showing risks of having the MMR shot, vs. not having it. I guess you didn’t read it. Here it is again:
Please read it this time (look for the chart at the bottom)

I showed you another link that showed that Measles killed over 500,000 in 2003. That’s a 40% drop from about 900,000 in 1999. Gee, I wonder why? Do you think it could have been from vaccination programs like the one in Zambia?. I guess you didn’t read that one either. But I think we can both agree that half a million kids dying from measles EACH YEAR is unacceptable.

More fun Measles info for you
This one, from WHO, discusses Measles deaths worldwide

In short, Measles outbreaks in developed countries have diminished greatly, and the mobidity of Measles in developed countries has disappeared since the creation of the vaccine. Worldwide, Measles continues to kill in underdeveloped countries (except where they are given vaccine). That’s why it’s good.

At this point, though, I’d like to take a minute to wonder if you’re being deliberately obtuse. I’ve answered all these questions more than once. Are you just not reading the answers. Maybe you should spend less time worrying about Mrs. Mayet’s feelings, and more time worrying about the answers to your questions. I’d really like to ask you to either read what I’ve given you, or stop wasting my time by repeating questions I’ve already answered.


Originally posted by Odium
There have been no long lasting studies on its effects to human's and we do not know what it could do to children 10years down the line. If it was tested properly, I would be all for it but I have yet to see such tests.


The vaccine was created in 1968. It’s not like it’s brand new. Most of the United States population has been vaccinated. You can’t do much better than 37 years of data with a sample size in the hundreds of millions. We sure as heck know what the effects are long term, ALMOST NO MEASLES DISEASE. What more do you want? Half the population under 37 in this country has not dropped dead from mystery illnesses, so I think it’s safe to say that the vaccine has no discernable long-term effects.

Look down for a nice history of the vaccine (and info on scientific studies into safety; there’s a whole bibliography)


Originally posted by Odium
If you look into many of the studies and read up on the methods they use they are highly questionnable. Which the Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons has already brought to light but been forced into the background...so as not to cause a panic.


Oh please tell me you didn’t just make that up. Do you have a source for this, or should we just consider it garbage? I get real tired of hearing these tales with no support.

About the only questionable study I know of was the one that tried to link this vaccine to autism. Not surprisingly, 10 of the 13 authors of that study (which only looked at 12!!! children) retracted their claims that there was any link between this vaccine and autism.

Please, go back to www.baselessallegations.com or www.phonystudyrumors.net or wherever you heard that nonsense, and post a source for your previous claim about JAPS. Otherwise, don’t try to bring it into a debate.


Originally posted by Odium
What if the drug is as bad as people claim? Is it worth the risk or should they attempt to keep them healthy and increase the likelyhood of them beating other illnesses?


And what if the sky falls down tomorrow? And what if the sun burns out? Why don’t we all just kill ourselves now rather than take the chance that HUGE GROUPS OF DOCTORS, SCIENTISTS, AND RESEARCHERS are correct that MMR is mostly harmless? Wouldn’t that be easier than trying to look things up for ourselves? Wouldn’t that be simpler than reading what others have kindly placed RIGHT IN OUR LAPS?

Yes, it is worth the risk. Last time I’ll say it, I hope. Kids will die without it, it DOES NOT take money away from other programs to keep them healthy. It has MINIMAL risk.

Let me pose a hypothetical situation to you: If you had 100,000 kids in front of you, and you knew that there was a good chance that Measles was going to kill, say, 1 out of every 25 (that’s 4,000). Now, let’s say I show up with a vaccine that will immunize ALL of them, but the VACCINE ITSELF will kill 1 out of every 200 (that’s 500). What would you do? The smart person would take the chance that 500 will die, rather than 4,000.

Now, take that 100,000, multiply it by 8, and divide the risks by about 8 million. Now you have a truer picture of risks vs. rewards.



posted on Nov, 30 2005 @ 02:15 PM
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Mayet - I'm very sorry for the trouble you've had. I sympathise and hope I'll never have to go through that.

I was fortunate enough to be guided to the knowledge of the fact that vaccines have significant dangers of both side affects and adverse reactions while I was still pregnant. It allowed me to make an educated choice for my son. I must admit I was shocked and didn't want to know for months; I'd never heard that vaccines were anything other than safe and 'protected' one from disease. Doctors never told me that there could be side effects.

But rather than waffle, here's a site that I've founmd the most informative on the other (the non-pharma) side.
www.thinktwice.com.

I (hope) believe some benefit must be found in some vaccines, but it's not as strong as the establishment would have us believe, while the greater proportion of adverse events and deaths go unreported. Coroners reports are supposed to list recent vaccinations, but often omit this, while there are doctors on records as saying that up to 70% of SIDS could be due to the combined DTaP causing sleep apnoea.

BTW, Finland (reported at thinktwice.com) considers itself measles free, despite having a 30% vaccination rate. America has the ninth worst infant mortality rate in the world, while other western nations that vaccinate less have far better. There is an implied direct relationship between infant mortality and vaccination rates. Meanwhile a double-blind study of thousand of people in India seems to have proven that the TB vaccination increases your chance of getting TB fourfold, and also makes you more likely to die from it.

I fear that the only good vaccinating flood victims is for is enriching the pockets of the drug companies.

I wish ATS could manage a conspiracy research project on this one.

Just my tuppenceworth :-)



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