Replaceing consonants in Maya glyph writing

Anyone here know how to figure out what to replace consonants like D,F, G, J, and V with when writing with mayan glyphs?

It is suggested to replace with another sound. Yet there seems to be no next best thing to use.

The syllabary does not provide anything even close for example useing my name "George".

It is also sugested to try to replace with some logographs, yet nothing there as well.

Help



[edit on 13-11-2005 by connectabores]

Ok, lets see if anyone can see this like I do.

George= CH'O and CHE



Is a person just suppose to sound it out as best as possible.

If so, would someone here say that perhaps this would be how my name would look in glyphs?

Very good guess -- I'd probably go with the CH'OCHE, myself.

Another way to do it is to look up the meaning of your name and see if you can do the name meaning in Mayan.

Since Christmas is coming, you might ask for a copy of:
The CODE OF KINGS: The Language of Seven Sacred Maya Temples and Tombs (Paperback)

or
Dictionary of Maya Hieroglyphs (Paperback)
by John Montgomery

or

How to Read Maya Hieroglyphs (Hippocrene Practical Dictionaries) (Paperback)
by John Montgomery

Well Byrd, looks like your the only one giving the time of day to my post.

Thankyou..........

And not that it even really matters but after going to ITG's cool Interactive Learning tool site and got a chance to hear them sounded out, it seems as though I am going with CH'OCHA



I am journaling in part of my website, progress as I proceed in learning to write with Maya glyphs. I am truly a "green" beginner.

If anyone knows of an interactive, or perhaps some sort of web course that a beginner can take to learn the glyphs over the internet, please let me know.

I have found some anthropology clases, but nothing specific to Mayan or Mayan glyphs.

Also any imput for book sources for a beginner would be greatly appreciated.

[edit on 15-11-2005 by connectabores]

As to the Anth classes, that depends on the school. We actually have a prof here at the University of North Texas who teaches Maya/Inca/Aztec civilization (just one course) and another who specializes in the MODERN culture of these peoples (because, of course, they didn't vanish. They were just enslaved.)

Southern Methodist University has an excellent archaeology section of its Anthropology department. They were the ones who recently uncovered the tomb of a queen down in central Mexico.

If you can afford it, there are student summer programs offered at different colleges that would actually let you go down for a summer and get into the work with the researchers (I think they cost around $3,000 per course. They are NOT cheap.)

Please DO continue learning and learning to read them! I'm interested, and we honestly need someone around who can translate the glyphs or make a good stab at it. We have a lot of "theories" posted around here that are based on carvings; carvings that DO have writing on them. At this point, I can only do Egyptian hieroglyphics; can't read the Mayan characters at all.

How are you coming on the dates? I started with trying to read those.

Hmmmm, not sure what happened to my last post. I had posted a pic of the glyphs for CH'OCHA and there is now a pic of a book from my site.
weird........I don't have an option to edit?? Well just for fun here is my drawing of CH'OCHA.



Any way, I have not started the dates yet. I am sort of self teaching myself, and trying to put together some sort of structure. I have just got a handle on counting.

I was pretty excited last week when I finally found a internet course specific to Maya glyphs. The course is being offered at a university in Warsaw of all places.

They let me in to examine the course with an introductionary lesson.

Then they tell me the next course offered is next year October. Sucks.

Was just looking for some affordable guidence.

I could use some more advice on books to purchase for a beginner like myself.

Someting that could perhaps be used as course material with some lessons and even some tests would be great.

There are alot of colleges offering courses that include Maya glyph reading and writing.

Not looking to be a professor or anything, Just very interested, and would also like to eventualy get some understanding of the astological aspect of the Maya, as well as more reading on 2012.
I included in my website a part that lets me journal my progress as I learn.

In the process of putting my site together have aquired a lot of different material.

Anyway, just doing what I can little by little. Now that the University at Warsaw is out of the picture, back to reading and learning on my own.

Wonder why there is no editing options on these posts?

Oh well............

Later Byrd.

If ya have some suggestions please bring em on.......

Dude, for extra practice or something, can you totally write my name (Alex) in Mayan glyphs please?

Zip

Originally posted by Zipdot
Dude, for extra practice or something, can you totally write my name (Alex) in Mayan glyphs please?

Zip

Here it is as an Egyptian scribe might have written it.

That didn't come out in full...just click link and type in the name you'd like to have translated.


The site that does it in Mayan glyphs is down right now, but here's the link if you want to check on it later. halfmoon.org...

I didn't think we could (accurately) speak these glyphs? Is there some sort of 'phonics rosetta stone' for these things? IOW how do we know how to pronounce a glyph not just "read" it?

[edit on 20-11-2005 by Rren]

[edit on 20-11-2005 by Rren]

[edit on 20-11-2005 by Rren]

You have an easy name that is easy to reference Alex.

Yes we are able to "speak" the glyphs. The Maya language like others has sounds (phonetics) that represent their pictorial glyphs.

Your name is so easy Alex, perhaps you would like to give it a shot yourself first. I am not an expert, but if you have a problem perhaps I can help after ya give it a try.

Yes the halfmoon site is down for now. Wonder what cool additions they are up too?

Here are a couple of great links to aid in determining the glyphs and referencing how some words, consonants, syllables, and vowels would sound in reference to the glyphs.

They take quite some time to load, well worth the wait.

For some word glyphs: brown.edu...

For a syllabes; www.brown.edu...

To the left of each page you will click on the appropriate syllable, then turn up the volume on your computer and click on the glyph that you have chosen to hear what it sounds like in the Maya tounge.

Enjoy..........Remember it takes a minute to load.

Will post some of the book recommendations later. In learning the glyphs, one of the best things to do is start by learning about the civilization itself. Eventually you'll run into things like titles and city names and so forth that will demand knowing more than just how the letters form words.

Google for some of this stuff on scholar.google.com... . There are a number of papers where archaeologists and linguists are translating objects like this one (warning -- SLOW loading PDF) :
journals.cambridge.org...

Here's an interesting abstract:
www.journals.cambridge.org...

Knowing headdresses and certain objects is important. The 'jester' headdress identifies the 'jester' gods (who are not really jesters) just as the jaguar throne is a significant symbol.

Anyway, with the holidays coming up I have more free time and would be interested in discussing this. Hopefully we can do some sort of generalized FAQ here for Mayan hieroglyphs.

I've got some books at home on the Mayan codices that aren't too bad. I found them at Half Price Books, and you can often get some of the paperbacks on Amazon.com as used books at a very cheap price.

Originally posted by connectabores
Yes we are able to "speak" the glyphs. The Maya language like others has sounds (phonetics) that represent their pictorial glyphs.

What i'm saying is how do we know that we are speaking the language as the Mayans did? I have always wondered this about the Egyptian hieroglyphs too, and admittedly never took the time to find the answer. So you're saying that we do have some sort of phonetic primer for these glyphs, yes? I understand, for the most part, how we decipher the language but always thought that these languages couldn't be spoken or atleast not accurately.

Ok i'll get out of the way now, but this is very interesting so i'll be keeping up with this thread...and yes read the links when i have more time. I'm sure all my questions are covered somewhere in there anyway.

Hey there Rren,

Not being an expert I have a quetion for you.

What does the term "primer" mean.

I can only speculate that it means "something to go by"?

I can only guess that the sounds that the experts have applied to the glyphs come from an abundant source of research and agreed phonetic table. How was that determined? Good question!

Like the glyphs themselves there seems to be a general agreement between the authorities on the subject.

I remember reading recently that all though there is still a great deal to be learned about the Maya. That the field is so open that even someone comming into it new today that there is still a lot of room and a lot to be learned for people in this field.

It was also stated that if you took one glyph and handed it around to several experts that they would all come back with the same meaning. Although there is some disagreement in other areas related to the Mayan civilization.

There must be some sort of "primer" that is common to them as well for Mayan phonics.

I noticed you are interested in the Egyptian glyphs.

How does it work for them? And can we speak an Egyptian tounge based on their hieroglyphic symbols?

Hi Byrd,

Thanks for the links. That scholar google search will come in handy.
Got a "file can not be found" for the Cambridge site for translateing objects.

In learning the glyphs, one of the best things to do is start by learning about the civilization itself.

I am finding that is very true and good suggestion.

In my search for putting together a structured course for myself so to speak, it becomes very aparent that all the college courses first get the students familiar with the people they are studying the language about.

Like the University of Texas Anthropolgy course takes them into the culture, communications, food and other intoductions to the people themselves before diving into their Introduction to Maya Hieroglyphic Writing.

So I will start reading some good stuff.

I am going to see how I do following their couses a thru z. It is all posted at their website, along with the lessons and what not. So I ordered "How to Read Maya Hiroglyphs"today that they use as a reference to the "Intro to Maya Hieroglyphic Writing" course that is used during the 5th week of their anthropology class.
Of course I will be going at a slower speed, but looks like a pretty good choice as far as getting some sort of structure that I have been looking for.

Have a great day!



[edit on 21-11-2005 by connectabores]

Originally posted by Rren

Originally posted by connectabores
Yes we are able to "speak" the glyphs. The Maya language like others has sounds (phonetics) that represent their pictorial glyphs.

What i'm saying is how do we know that we are speaking the language as the Mayans did?

Because the language isn't dead. It's a living world language. There are currently more than three million people who speak it as the first language:
en.wikipedia.org...

So you're saying that we do have some sort of phonetic primer for these glyphs, yes?

A few of the Spanish friars actually recorded the beliefs of the people and translated some of the codeces.

That's what were looking for Byrd. Great link........

The document “Whats the difference between speech and Writing“ from the Linguistic Society of America talks of a standardization.

Standardization. Spoken languages have dialects--forms varying across geographical areas and social groups. But in complex societies that use writing, the needs of communication encourage moves toward a single written norm, codified by governmental, educational, and literary institutions. The prestige of the written standard is then likely to influence speech as well.

Also came across Structuralist Linguistics
To the extent that structural linguistics has developed into the study of language use (rather than the linguistic system), nowadays often making use of large electronic corpora of texts for studying the distribution of particular structures and uses, it can be said to have developed a discourse analytical perspective.

Seems that speech based on writing has different fields within the field of Anthropology to include Structurlist Linguistics, Liguistic Anthropology, Conversation Analysis, and Ethnomethodology. Here is quite a list of references as well.

[edit on 21-11-2005 by connectabores]

You guys crack me up! John Montgomery, along with many other notable people, cracked the Maya code. If you want to learn the glyphs, you are going to have to study his books.

www.famsi.org...

Also, you should take a trip to a Maya city. It is very affordable these days and you can even sign up for digs. You can download the Maya codices from the above website and study them. There is a link to the glyph guide as well as a link to the T-Numbers under the writing tab.
Good luck!
T

reply to post by connectabores


YES THERE IS A WAY TO REPLACE CONSONANTS. YOU JUST REPLACE THEM WITH CONSONANTS OF SIMILAR SOUND. FOR EXAMPLE, F IS REPLACED BY P, D IS REPLACED BY T, R IS REPLACED BY L.

anyone really get good at translating this stuff? i want to know what my kids names look like
ASHLEY
ALEXIS
SCOUT

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
You guys crack me up! John Montgomery, along with many other notable people, cracked the Maya code.

IIRC, it was a team led by Linda Schele.

Harte