Briggs,

About freedom of expression, you are right, and I completely agree with you, with one caveat -- that it is used reponsibly.

About news, we have CNN, BBC, Sky, and also al-Jazeera... but I don't really understand your statement, can you clarify it?

I'm sorry to hear what's happening to your religion, but you have to understand, it cannot compare to worldwide broadcast by news media painting muslims as the bad guy.

I've already explained my position on the cartoons and also explained why it upsets so many muslims, but you are right, setting embassies or anything on fire is just wrong. I remember reading somewhere in the Quran (or was it a Hadith?) that a muslim should not cause destruction on the face of the earth. I guess the extremist skipped that line.

As for Arab states, at the risk of inflaming some people, I have to say they're none too bright... looks like it's back to the Jahilliyah (Ignorant) era.

And the War on Terror, it could have gone better, more efficiently, if uprooting terror was indeed the aim. Otherwise I see it as generating more individuals with a vengeance on the USA (like depicted in that movie, "The War Within")

Iran? Why shouldn't they have nuclear power? If I ran a country sitting on a huge oil field, which incidentally happens to be one of my biggest source of income, I'd want to maximize that income by cutting local consumption of it.

Nuclear weapons? We really don't know, do we?

Originally posted by Beachcoma

Maybe the intention was not to attack Islam.

No, of course not. The paper (Denmark's Jyllands-Posten) said it had asked cartoonists to draw the pictures because the media was practicing self-censorship when it came to Muslim issues. The 12 pictures have been printed in September 2005....and nothing bad happenend....

....no demonstrations against that in Denmark, no demonstrations in Paris, nothing in London in September 2005...


....until a Muslim decided to "internatonalize" this with the help of faked cartoons. And THEN the so called "sponteanous rage" started......in Gaza - right after the elections in the PA. - and afterwards riots in Jarkata, Syria, Lebanon - the people came by the busloads to rally.

And THAT smells a LOT. I would assume, the people there never saw only one of the cartoons - everything was orchestered.

..and look carefully at the picture from London:



seems as if all placards have been written by the same person...well organized

Sigh... Riwka if you are right (about the orchestration of these events) then I really don't know what to say.

If it was orchestrated initially (because I think it's out of control now) then the question is, why? To what end?

Sigh... this really saddens me to no end. Oh well, it's 4 am here, I'm very sleepy now. We'll continue this tommorow.

And thank you to all who participated in this discussion in a civil manner.

May Allah bless all of you who are pure with good hearts.

i dont have a problem with Arabs/Muslims/Chinease/japanease
or any other people in the world ...

I have a problem with someone saying , you dont believe in my relegion
that makes you evil you must die ?. And to me it doesnt matter who is saying it .... its wrong .

I belelive all people should be free. Free to live there lives the way they want.
you want to be a Christian , then be one . you want to be a Muslim ,
then be one. you want to be Catholic/buddist or whatever , then fine be one .

i believe in people , no matter what releigion they are , should be free
from oppression .

As long as you live by the laws that keep you from hurting other people,
you should be able to live your life the way you want .

and for whatever happend in the past...people need to get over it alrdy .
in this day and age . there is no reason for the crap that is going on.

It would be nice if everyone could/would get along, use some common sense and relise that theres more to life than getting upset about something that wont even mean anything a few days/weeks from now.

It would be nice if people worked as hard at making peace as they did at fighting / making war . the world would be better place for sure .

As for Iran with nukes ? can Iran really be trusted with Nukes ?.
truthfully in my opion , i doubt it .
but who knows .

thats fine Deep Blue -- many quotes from the quran that the
Fanatical Muslims didnt seem to read .

maybe you should go and give quran lessons to the fanatical muslims ,
see how they feel about you not converting ? . lol .

and just to add to it - on the history channel, about 4 or 5 months ago
the BBc had a 4 hour show about the middle east .
in wich they interviewed 1000's of muslims .

Just about everyone of the people they interviewed said they hate the west and anyone who doesnt believe in Islam . And that if you didnt beleive in the quran you should die.
But on the good side , NOT all of the people wer anti west or anti anyone who didnt beleive in there relegion.

[edit on 5-2-2006 by Briggs]

NO shame... that is all .. no time for development.. for saving the trees. the environment.. the universe.. whatever

Just pure destruction.. we come out of the dark ages . in to the light of technology..
and here we are fighting over gods of a mythological world
who needs them anymore..

gettin touchy bout the prophet.. i am sure if he was a man of power and god .. he will know how to take a joke ..
and look at these unemployed so called extremists... just to justify their existence.. will go to extent of burning other country's flags and shouting slogans ..

sad to know they aint doing anyting bout their own ppl ... if the moslem community is so touchy .. go help people in iraq and afghan... help the post war civillian communities...
Cant do # constructive..

i am just waiting for the day .. hybrid .. solar or water based vehicle fuel becomes popular... it will make the whole world let middle east mind its own business..
(keep that filthy gold and petrol in desert..and the world will be rewarded with temporary peace.. till we start fighting over water
:lol

Ok, please, there are some good ideas for other topics, but this thread is needing to get back on topic.
Come on......
Start a new thread, back on topic here!

*TC wanders about looking for his jack boots*

i will support denmark... antatica whoever.. who wants to exercise their freedom of speech...
well for these fkull extremist..when they see osama tapes... they never go burning down al jazeera.. dont they ...let him call whatever he wishes to call bush evil .. x yz .. i dont think they have any stake in that do they ...
and now look at em .. they are doin the real damage.. shocked to see the pictures on the TV
i think one fine they they will force all the moderates and liberal islamist to quit islam for their hardling and abusing the religion so badly !

saw the beruit. outrage... animals.. went about pelting stones on the denmark consulate..
i wish the prophet.. came down to see his subjects at work .. sure makes him proud..!

Exellent picture, TC

This one is also good...

Originally posted by Ulvetann
There has been an assault on a danish owner of a hotdog-kiosk!

What pigs! (and I'm not talking about the sausage)

These people truly want to remake the West in their violent, intolerant image.

When I see the pictures of Muslims holding up inflamatory banners in my
capital city I am absoutely enraged , how can we in the United Kingdom allow such intolerance by a minority against the majority.

I don't know about the rest of the world but it seems like Muslims are untouchable here in Blighty,sure its an old argument now but if I were to walk in to my town centre wearing a shemagh over my head with a banner saying nasty things about islam about how death is coming to muslim cities, i would last about 5 minutes at a conservative estimate.

I am all for freedom of speech and freedom of expression and theese protesters are just as British as I am and have the right to protest but they are just bang out of order,i am a moderate person but the images that I have seen over theese last few days have I have to admit changed my view on Islam from apathy to disgust, and the very sad thing about it all is it will have done the same to many more young British men like myself a minority of which wont have the self restaint to be able to stop themseles from being drawn in to a cycle of religous , ethnic and racial hatred that will be carried on through the generations like a hereditey cancer.

It truly is sad that the very freedoms that we have given to many Muslims in my country can be used against us in such a vile manner by an ignorant minority who seem to want nothing but the destruction of my beloved home land.



[edit on 5-2-2006 by buckaroo]

Where in the koran does it say that it's wrong to draw muhammed. I totally get the being upset over the cartoons, but what about muhammed drawings in general. I don't see a point to it.

BTW - If the muslums don like it, they should quit reading the papers and move out of Europe. End of problem.