Atlantis and the Azores Islands?

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posted on Nov, 12 2005 @ 12:53 PM
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Ok, bear with me on this.

As some of you know i work as a project organizer with a company running research ships. the owner of this company is a master mariner and has spent his life at sea, he speaks English, Portuguese, Spanish, Creole, Arabic fluentley. He has amassed a wealth of life experiences and i have been privalleged many times to benefit from his advices and knowledge.

some time ago i asked his opinion on the 'Legend of Atlantis'?....all i initially wanted to know was wether or not he believed at some point it had exsisted or was it just a fictional tool created by plato?

My friends answer was quick and to the point, 'Yes it exsisted' and 'I believe it to be or have been where the Azores Islands are'

he then went into great detail with why he believed this to be so, and typical of me i have remembered very little of what he said. what i do believe (and my fellow ATS'er's will just have to take my word for) is that my friend has spent a lifetime at sea, he has learnt many things and heard many tales in different toungues, he is a wealth of knowledge like no other man i have ever had the privallige to know, thus also he is a serious and learned scholar and an honourary member of a major universitie in the UK.

All im putting up is some basic knowledge to encourage ATS members to review and perhaps debate?

I remember thinking at the time of my discussion with my friend that his theory seemed to make a lot of sense and came away favouring his theory on the Azores more so than any other i have heard?.....again, sadly im dammed if i can remember much of his reasoning. apologies.

here are some facts on the Azores:-









[img]http://www.lennartz-electronic.de...[/img]




Historically, the Portuguese came on to the scene in 1427 with the discovery of the islands Santa Maria and São Miguel.
Due to its strategic geographic position, the archipelago was to become an important waypoint on the main routes between Europe, the Orient and America during 16th and 17th centuries. This period saw major naval battles around the Azores, while the islands were set upon by pirates.
Subsquent centuries saw the developement of the islands, introduction of a new agriculture and the developement of cattle breeding and fishing.
Having constitued an integral part of Portugal from the very outset, today the Azores are an autonomous region endowed with its own parliament and government

Located right in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean between Europe and North America, the Azores are on a parallel with Lisbon at latitudes of 39 43' / 36 55' N. The nine islands have a total surface area of 2.333 km2 and an Exclusive Economic Zone extending over 984.300 km2. Island area range between 747 km2 (São Miguel island and 17 km2 (Corvo island). The peak of the volcano of Pico attains a height of 2.351m, constituting the highest point to be found on either the Azores or mainland Portugal. The population of the region stands at 237.795 inhabitants (1991 census)



my friends theory was that Atlantis was an island located relativley close or inbetween the azores islands, when the land bridge between gibraltar and africa broke the reverse tidal waves headed back out to sea and hit the Azores, this wiped out Atlantis, a later movement of the earths plates caused the remaining land mass to be pushed under the sea (im being very vague, i apologise, when i was told this the proposed facts seemed to be plausable), my friend had at some point discussed this with a proffesor friend who also believed atlantis to now be crushed under and between two plates of sea bed.

No wether or not any geologists here would like to put up what these plates could be that should shed some light?

It also seems aparent that if Atlantis was Cyprus then neighbouring countrys would have recorded its details also?......as this is not the case it would point to it having to be far away from view of other land?

The water around the Azores is deep, what secrets may it hold?...has there been much deep reserch in this region?

The islands are volcanic in origin, what eruptions have they seen?



There were mythical lands across sea as suggested by ancient
writing. Theopompue in 4th century B.C. wrote of a large western
land in the Atlantic. Pliny and Diodorus wrote of a large continent
beyond to the west. Solon of Greece in 600 B.C. visited Egypt and was
told of an island named Atlantis which Plato wrote about in his
Dialogues of 400 BC. His account tells of a powerful land outside the
columns of Hercules which was larger than Libya and Asia combined.
It was a land that was the way to other lands, but it sank during a
time of earthquakes and floods. The water was so muddy from its
sinking that it was impassable.2


But there were islands located in the Atlantic that were steeped in
myth and seen on early maps. They had names like the Fortunate
Isles, Antillia, Brazil, and California.3 There were stories, such as Irish
St. Brendan of Clonfert in 545 sailing from Kerry and finding islands
which may have been the Madeiras.4 On a Catalan chart these
mysterious Atlantic islands were identified as the Isles of St.
Brendan and lie only a few hundred miles off the Strait of Gilbraltar.5
Mohammad al Edrisi was credited at one time of having located a
series of islands which might have been the Cape Verdes, the
Maderias, the Canaries, or possibly the Azores. This was in the 12th
century.6



Corvo along with Flores are the two westernmost islands of the
archipelago, and hence, the last inch of European soil. It was here in
the early 1500's, that Damiao de Goes, under the employment of King
Dom Manoel of Portugal, wrote of a statue of a man on horseback
pointing to the west which was clinging to a rocky ledge. The king
asked for a drawing of it, and after seeing the drawing, he sent
someone to bring it back. As the story goes, it was shattered in a
storm en route, but the king received the parts. There too was an
inscription in the rock below the statue, and an impression was taken
of it. But neither the shattered parts of the statue, nor the impression
of the inscription were ever found.33 Was it a hoax? Scholars are still
unsure.


Some have speculated that the statue was really just one of many
rock formations seen on the island and nothing more.34 Others feel it
did exist and could have been evidence of the lost continent of
Atlantis, or of another settlement of ancient peoples. Coins too were
found on Corvo, and their images were published in a journal of the
Society of Gothenberg. They were considered to be of Carthagenian or
Cyrenean origin by the society.35 A twentieth century Portuguese
scholar, made a serious effort to locate the coins. He went to the
convent to which they were first supposedly taken. He also visited
museums where he thought information could be found. But his
investigation turned up nothing.36



what do you all think?

Regards.

sources:-

wwwlibrary.csustan.edu...

www.drtacores.pt...




posted on Nov, 14 2005 @ 05:51 AM
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perhaps one of our resident geologists would like to explain how these plates work?

As you can see from this picture from google images, the Azores would fall pretty much smack bang on a fault line.



posted on Nov, 14 2005 @ 06:17 AM
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and again a clearer map.

www.activemind.com...

also this page puts forward an azores relation

www.activemind.com...

this site also gives some 'supposed'? translations from the plato texts....

lol..sorry im being vaugue, im busy trying to do this at work....

[edit on 14-11-2005 by optimus fett]



posted on Nov, 14 2005 @ 07:16 AM
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this is also an interesting read:-

Atlantis in the Mid-Atlantic

A very plausible solution to the Atlantis mystery is that Plato's Atlantic Island was located in the Mid-Atlantic and that the island chain known as the Azores are its surviving remnants. This cluster of nine main islands is located amid a chain of underwater mountains that rise to heights in excess of 9000 metres. They form part of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge which defines the division between tectonic plates, aligned approximately north-south beneath the ocean floor for some 17,600 kilometres. It is the tips of the very highest of these subterranean mountains that protrude from the ocean floor as the principal islands of the Azores, which are themselves endowed with sizeable mountains that soar to a height in excess of 2100 metres.

Perhaps the most important writer to propose that the Azores were remnants of an Atlantean island continent was Ignatius Donnelly, author of the seminal classic Atlantis: The Antediluvian World, first published in 1882. This American congressman set down the foundations for the thousands of books and articles that have been written on the subject of Atlantis over the past 120 years. Although Donnelly's book has seen countless reprints, much of what he had to say about Atlantis being an antediluvial motherland for the diffusion of civilisation on both sides of the Atlantic has since been proved incorrect.

Despite this drawback, Donnelly's original thesis of a central Atlantean landmass has been perpetuated by a number of well-respected scholars of the Atlantis mystery. They include Russian academic Nikolai Zhirov. In the 1960s he wrote a series of papers on the subject, as well as a definitive book entitled Atlantis - Atlantology: Basic Problems, published in 1970. Like Donnelly, he argued that the former Atlantean landmass lay in the vicinity of the Azores and that, before it sank without trace, it acted as a land-bridge for the migration of flora and fauna between Africa and the Americas.

Christian O'Brien, a retired industrial geologist, archaeologist and historical writer, has also tackled the concept of a mid-Atlantic continent having once existed in the vicinity of the Azores. In his 1997 book The Shining Ones - co-authored with his wife Barbara Joy - he proposed that the Azorean landmass, as he sees it, suffered immense cataclysms and eventually sank into the earth's liquid magma, leaving only the Azores as hard evidence of its former existence. The discovery of six fields of hot springs in the vicinity of the Azores is, he postulates, firm evidence of this hypothesis.

During underwater explorations off the island of São Miguel, the largest island in the Azores group, in 1971 Christian O'Brien found clear evidence of an underwater river bed filled with water-worn boulders. By applying detailed contouring methods to hydrographic charts, the O'Briens discerned that rivers draining off the southern slopes of São Miguel once converged together in a huge valley, now situated some 64 kilometres out from the present coastline. Other islands in the Azores group have yielded similar hydrographic anomalies, and in one case the O'Briens even traced a series of river valleys which extended for a distance of 288 kilometres before converging together in a much larger river basin.

With a knowledge of ancient river systems, the O'Briens were able to reconstruct a land profile which revealed an Azorean landmass 'about the size and shape of Spain', with high mountain ranges rising over 3655 metres above sea-level, as well as impressive rivers that run 'in curving valley systems'. Furthermore, they have pointed out that:
In the southeast, a feature which we have called 'The Great Plain' covered an area in excess of 3500 square miles [9065 square kilometres], and was watered by a river comparable in size to the River Thames in England. It has, as we shall see, points in common with a great plain described by Plato in his Critias, as being a feature of the island of Atlantis.

The conclusion drawn from these findings is that the Azores once formed part of a much greater landmass which sank beneath the waves and is now situated 'many thousands of feet' below the current sea-level. To obtain a more substantial insight into this fascinating subject, the O'Briens propose that a scientific team take a series of core samples from the proposed sites of their river channels. They confidently predict that these will show not only evidence of ancient river beds, but also of the freshwater flora and fauna which once thrived on the former Azorean landmass.

These are fascinating insights into the protohistory of the Azores group. Yet there are fundamental problems in accepting the theory of a former Azorean landmass. It is now known, for instance, that the volcanic mountains which constitute the Mid-Atlantic Ridge are of relatively recent composition. They are like age-old geological scars on a gaping wound that never properly heals. The north-south orientated tectonic plates produce an upward flow of magma which constantly creates new underwater mountain systems that are unlikely to have formed part of a geological landmass in the manner described.

In addition to these problems, we must also acknowledge that there is now wide-scale acceptance of the so-called continental drift theory, first proposed in 1915 by the German meteorologist Arthur Wegener. In simple terms, this asserts that many millions of years ago the American and African landmasses were joined together, yet ever since they have been slowly moving apart. Just by making paper cutouts of the different continents and slotting them together we can see they fit snugly, suggesting that the continental drift theory is real. Furthermore, the fact that the American and African continents were once joined together explains much of the flora and fauna they share.

More damning is the fact that when the first Portuguese navigators reached the Azorean islands in 1427, they found them devoid not only of human life but also of any fauna. Even though some evidence has emerged to imply that in the third century BC Carthaginian vessels from North Africa reached Corvo, the westernmost of the Azorean islands, no archaeology has come to light to suggest that the archipelago ever supported an indigenous culture.

Even if the O'Briens' proposals regarding prehistoric river beds, located off the coast of São Miguel, do prove to be correct it seems unlikely that Plato's Atlantis is the memory of a high culture which once thrived on any proposed Azorean landmass. No evidence of an indigenous culture has ever come to light on any of the islands and there is no reason to assume that Plato's Atlantis account alludes to a landmass of this sort. Even though he did state that Atlantis was the size of Libya (North Africa) and Asia combined, it can be argued that this did not relate to the physical size of the island but to the extent of the dominion held by the kings of Atlantis. This can be determined from the Critias, where Plato refers specifically to a much smaller, east-west orientated landmass that cannot have been any more than 600 kilometres in width (see the entry for the Americas). I'm afraid we shall have to look elsewhere for the true location of lost Atlantis.

it is from this website

www.andrewcollins.com...



posted on Nov, 17 2005 @ 02:55 AM
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WHAT I KNOW IS FROM THE SOURCE I CANNOT SAY…

ATLANTIS WAS AT THE LOCATION OF THE AZORES LAND OCCUPIED ALVAYS BY SOMEONE GOING BACK BC 31 600 YEARS AGO.
THEY CALL THIS LAND: THE PLACE OF THE TEMPLE OF THE ANCIENTS THIS WAS BEFORE GIBRARTAR LAND MASS SHIFTED THERE WAS JUST WATERFALL SOMETHING LIKE A NIAGARA IN CANADA ATLANTIC OR RATHER RIVER POURING INTO PRESENT DAY MEDITERENIAN…
THEN LAND SHIFTED AGAIN THAT WAS BEFORE FIRST GREAT FLOOD
ATLANTIS WAS AT FIRST CALLED LAND OF BEHIND/ AFTER BLOODSUCKERS (DIFFICULT TRANSLATION) AFTER THE BLOODSUCKER ONE ALWAYS SUFFERED GOT ATTACHED ONE TO LEG OR THING WHEN YOU HAD TO PUSH BOAT TROUGH THE SWAMPS LEAVING THE MEDITERENIAN SEA… THAT WAS BEFORE THE SECOND FLOOD…AND OF ATLANTIS … THERE WERE THREE ISLANDS KING OF LAND GIVE TO HIS THREE SONS WHICH ESTABLISHED RULE OF HATE, JELOUSSY AND OF HORROR, THAT IS WHERE NICKNAME CAME TO BE SO IT CAN BE SPOKEN OPENLY ABOUT BLOODSUCKERS BASICALLY DUAL MEANNING…THE MOUTH OF THE LEECH WITH MOUTH OF THREE VAMPIRE FANGS ONE COULD SPOKE AND NOT BE KILLED IN REVENGE OR INSULT THOSE WHICH LISTEN
AND THEY WENT LIKE HORDS ROB THE VILAGES AROUND THE MEDITERENIAN
THREE RED FLAMES ON THEIR SYMBOL OR FLAGS
AND LATER INGAGE IN CAMPAIN AGAIST KINGDOMS OF THE MEDITERENIAN. ATLANTENIANS UNITED ROB THE TEMPLE OF THE ANCIENT THEIR CAMPAIN IN THE LAND OF THE WEST AND TEMPLE OF HEBREWS OF THEIR SECRETS AND GOLD AND INSTRUMENTS OF GOD POWERS
HEBREWS IS SAID TO HAVE GODS OF FIRE SECRETS IN MANUSCRIPT HEBREWS WERE EXPELED EXILES CAME FROM OTHER WORLD OF MANY SUNS IN SKY GOD TOLD THEM TO GO TROUGH THE GATE BETWEEN THE WORLDS IN THE FAR NORTH COUNTRY WHERE THIS STAR GATE…WHEREABOUT BETWEEN TWO PILARS LAND OF NIGHT OF MOON BEING THE LAND OF WOLF CRY..
PEACE AND HARMONY CAME TO THE ATLANTIS WHEN ALL WAS CONCURED BUT GOD WAS ANGRY WITH THEM REVENGE AND JUDGEMENT SHODOW OF SON GOD AGAIST THEM…
THERE WERE ALIENS FROM OTHER WORLD CONCURED ATLANTIS IN ONE DAY ONE THIRTH ATLANTENIANS WERE KILLED ONE THIRD THEY ENSLAVED REST SCATERED SOME TO NEW ATLANTIS AS SLAVES TO THE LAND IN WEST ISLAND IN THOUGHTS OF GOD…THESE ADVANCE ALIENS TOOK OVER THE ATLANTIS ISLANDS BUT THERE WAS PSYCHIAN PRISON THOUGHTS ONE THUNDER BIRD RELEASED FROM PRISON WHICH NON RIGHTEOUS FULL OF SIN DEVIL THEMSELVES ALIENS WERE DESTROYED BY DARKNESS OF OWN THOUGHS FOR THE WEIGHT AND GUILTH OF OWN SINS AGAINST HUMANS BURNING FLAMES INSTEAD OF LOVE IN THIS DREAM LAND WHERE THINGS CAME OUT OF NO WHERE OR CAME ABOUT UPON PASSION PROVISSION FROM HELL
IT IS SAID SAME ALIENS WILL DO SAME TO REST OF EARTH WHEN THEY CAME WORLD IN FLAMES CONCURED IN AD 2012
THE END



posted on Nov, 17 2005 @ 10:15 AM
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Zachystal....




WHAT I KNOW IS FROM THE SOURCE I CANNOT SAY…


do you mean you cant reveal your source?...or you dont know where it came from?

sorry mate, i found your post very hard to follow?

It reads like some mad biblical text...please ellaborate?

Regards.



posted on Nov, 18 2005 @ 02:01 PM
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TextMore damning is the fact that when the first Portuguese navigators reached the Azorean islands in 1427, they found them devoid not only of human life but also of any fauna. Even though some evidence has emerged to imply that in the third century BC Carthaginian vessels from North Africa reached Corvo, the westernmost of the Azorean islands, no archaeology has come to light to suggest that the archipelago ever supported an indigenous culture.


ummm?.......mulling over this and other concrete facts relating to the azores theory of Atlantis, it does make you wonder if perhaps there has been some sort of covering of facts by identities unknown?

by that i mean playing with the 'Alien' theory, since no major pointer has ever arisen in history as us (the ats user) knows it, perhaps information and findings over the past centuries have exsisted but simply lost ? looted and plundered?....perhaps the biggest conspiracy of all regarding Atlantis is that its location is known and witheld or cloaked?.

just trying to encorage some debate!..lol

Regards.



posted on Nov, 18 2005 @ 08:44 PM
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the idea that the Azores area, at one time was a fairly large landmass is a pretty engaging idea.

i believe the ocean level would have had to have been ~500 meters lower than the sealevel is today. Which brings up the problems of how people and plants would have adapted/adjusted to living at an elevation which had a higher atmospheric pressure and had a very slightly higher gravity.

please, before you scoff, it is common knowledge that groups of people
have acclimated to living high up in the Himmalyas & Andes, which has rarified air and somewhat less gravity pull, according to scientific measurements.
Now, lets reverse the situation, and imagine finding a group of people living at what would be about 1,500 feet below today's sea level.
which is about what the Azores 'basin' and ancient river bed now lies at.

Did? the earths atmosphere compress as the ice turned into liquid water
and rose (+100 meters since end of IceAge)
Was? atmospheric pressure higher, back in the day when most of the planet was covered by miles thick ice & the liquid waters were ~500 meters lower than today. Science says that living at an Azores plain
(when it was dry land) a living plant-animal-or-human whould have an extra 500 meters of atmosphere pressing on it.


like i stated in opening...the idea is engaging,
as it opens up different veins of thought....

......................................................................

including the astounding;
such as, the oceans & mediterranian sea have remained constant.
and only the Azores plane & basin, sank beneath sealevel in a unique
'sinkhole' scenario, and blended in with the marine topography...
{but that's another page}



posted on Nov, 25 2005 @ 04:44 AM
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Did? the earths atmosphere compress as the ice turned into liquid water


dude..this is quite an interesting theory, not being from a scientific background i wouldnt know?

but interesting never the less.

Regards.



posted on Nov, 27 2005 @ 11:21 AM
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My membery is telling me that National Geographic published a chart of the varios sea floor contours. This was a few years ago but I seem to remember that it did cover the area around the Azores.

I will try and find it and if possable post either a link or a photo.



posted on Nov, 27 2005 @ 11:42 AM
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Here is the site

Mapmachine.nationalgeographic.com/mapmachine/view&cutom.html?task=setMap&temeld=pg99

As yet I've not gotten the hang of setting up a link.

If all else fails go to NationalGeographic.com; site index; maps & geography; mapmachine on line atlas; search and brouse; world maps--view all;oceans; atlantic floor; zoom in.

The view is more intreaguing than I remember, sort of looks like it might work.

Hopefully someone with more knowlege of ATS can repost the link as a functioning link.



posted on Nov, 27 2005 @ 02:40 PM
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Here is the link, active I hope:

[edit on 27-11-2005 by Masonic Student]

Sorry it didn't work at all please excuse this post.

[edit on 27-11-2005 by Masonic Student]



posted on Dec, 18 2005 @ 10:26 PM
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The Critias, by Plato, lists off the 10 sons of Poseidon, in which there are 5 sets of twins. The list goes as follows:

1. Atlas
2. Gadeirus (Eumelus)

3. Ampheres
4. Evaemon

5. Mneseus
6. Autochthon

7. Elasippus
8. Mestor

9. Azaes
10. Diaprepes

www.sacred-texts.com...

Is it only a coincidence that Azores and Azaes have similar sounding names?
It is true that the name Azores is named after a bird. What came first the bird or the name? The Meso-American culture was fascinated with birds and their feathers and I wonder if they originally named the Azores after the bird they chose.



posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 05:21 PM
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Anyone play Indiana Jones and the fate of Atlantis?

It was made in the early 90s.

Anywho the Azores was mentioned in it.



posted on Oct, 14 2006 @ 11:08 AM
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I think I still have it, somewhere.

And does anyone remember "The Adventures of Blake & Mortimer: Atlantis Mystery"?

This was created in 1957 (the original version in French), and in it the heroes find an entrance to a underground city where they find the last Atlantis survivors.

Edit: I forgot to say that the entrance was in one of the Açores (Azores in English) islands, São Miguel.

[edit on 14/10/2006 by ArMaP]



posted on Oct, 15 2006 @ 10:24 PM
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some people say that the name Azores, come from the italian word Azzurro, as blue spots in the ocean...

Azores is located in a very very deep area, and also in a very volcano and earthquakes activity...it had suffer so many changes only in the past millenium, to prove that Atlantis is in/near the azores, will be very difficult.....

but the expeditions to Hydrothermal-Vents in the Azores is rising...maybe with a little luck



posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 01:55 AM
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This is an interesting theory....but I am of the persuasion that atlantis might of been part of the canary islands.

The guanches and the ruins are what are most persuasive in my view...

I have also heard that the man who discovered Tory allegedly had discovered a vase with the inscription "from king chronos of Atlantis" . I have no idea if this story has any validity or not.

the most frustrating thing about atlantis is that it is a persistant legend among many cultures and there is little or no concrete evidence that it had ever existed.
Everything,other than the stories themselves,that has ever been used as evidence for its existance is simply gone.

the pillars inscribed in egypt..no scrolls or inscriptions stating boldly "Atlantis".... its just frustrating.



posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 01:48 PM
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Originally posted by fable
some people say that the name Azores, come from the italian word Azzurro, as blue spots in the ocean...

The name comes from the birds that were very common on those islands when they were found.

That bird in Portuguese is called "açor", the plural is "açores", we do not have any "z" in those islands' name.


In English, that bird is a Goshawk.



posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 01:11 PM
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the birds "Azores" was never found in Azores, there´s a bird very similar to the Azor, the "milhafre" "Milvus migrans" they confused or maybe is not the origin of the word Azores...

aÇores, Ç only was inserted in spain in the sec XVII (azores was found in sec XV, but there are maps in XIII that already inclued Azores islands), i dont know how to explain very much in english (i´m portuguese), but Ç is a little Z, zedilha, so before the XVII century, is very capable to be AZORES..



posted on Oct, 25 2006 @ 03:04 PM
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Thanks for that explanation, I will try to find more information about the old name.


Let me say that it is allways good to see another Portuguese ATS member.

(Now in Portuguese, something i do not have many opportunities to do)

Deixa-me dizer que é sempre bom ver mais um membro português do ATS.




Edit: the oldest reference I could find for now was a book from 1604. You can see the first page on the image bellow.



[edit on 25/10/2006 by ArMaP]





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