More sex slaves today than were seized from Africa in 400 years of the trans-Atlantic slave trade.

I would have thought that my point was self-evident, especially in respect to your mention of:

asposted by loam
This just makes me ill. How can this problem be this large and no one is really talking about it???

Now, in retrospect, having cited what my commentary was directed to, you might want to re-read what I wrote, keeping in perspective that which you mentioned, and I gave commentary to.
Again, people, the average 'joe', are aware of this, just as they are aware of what is happening in Sudan/Darfur [you seeing the average 'joe' making any dent there?]. Doing something about it is another matter, nonetheless, loam. Your suggestions were?




seekerof

[edit on 13-11-2005 by Seekerof]

Originally posted by Seekerof
I would have thought that my point was self-evident,

It was not.

Now, in retrospect, having cited what my commentary was directed to, you might want to re-read what I wrote, keeping in perspective that which you mentioned, and I gave commentary to.

I have followed your instructions. Again, not clear.

Again, people, the average 'joe', are aware of this,

As almost every post in this thread demonstrates, I doubt many are aware of the SCALE of this issue. I assume that suggests that many of us are less than aware of the "average joe" you keep mentioning. How insulting...

just as they are aware of what is happening in Sudan/Darfur [you seeing the average 'joe' making any dent there?].

Shall I provide evidence of the average joe's general inability to even identify simple geographical landmarks on a map? Moreover, Sudan/Darfur is a different issue with different circumstances. What is happening there is NOT happening here.

Doing something about it is another matter, nonetheless, loam. Your suggestions were?

I'll begin by discounting those who share your jaded, patronizing view of the world.

Begin then, but when you do, lay forth your plan to make everyone aware and then how you propose that it be addressed, k?

Rolling your eyes does nothing to carry on further conversation of such a profound topic, but as you have expressed, obviously a matter of massive genocide has no relevance, because it has no direct bearing or implications "here". At any rate, I am aware of human-trafficking and have been for quite sometime. Perhaps if you took an age polling of those who have made comment to this topic, then perhaps the reason why some aspects of it are unknown may become self-evident. I am sure this topic is something that is not openly addressed or discussed in public schools, loam.

Personally, the topic will definately make some who are not aware of this, aware.





seekerof

Seekerof

Perhaps we are talking past one another... Or I have read something that was not there in your responses. I'm just trying to understand your posts.

The two notions I have issue with is that most are aware of the scale of this issue and the implication that because this is a global problem, doing more in this country is futile.

Originally posted by Seekerof
but as you have expressed, obviously a matter of massive genocide has no relevance, because it has no direct bearing or implications "here".

Just to be clear, that was not the point I made. I assume you really know that.

At any rate, I am aware of human-trafficking and have been for quite sometime. Perhaps if you took an age polling of those who have made comment to this topic, then perhaps the reason why some aspects of it are unknown may become self-evident. I am sure this topic is something that is not openly addressed or discussed in public schools, loam.

Much is not taught in public schools.... But I for one have been long out of public school and was nonetheless unaware as to the scale of the issue or the fact that much of it occurs within the US. Why is that such a problem?

Personally, the topic will definately make some who are not aware of this, aware.

In the end, however small the impact, isn't that the point of ATS and boards like it?




[edit on 13-11-2005 by loam]

One of the tactics used to protect the vile of this world is "encouraging" survivers who seek proffessional help to just get about "healing themselves" and not put themselves through the trauma of seeking justice.

There is a calculated evil in promoting this attitude as the "good people" employed in the surviver industry see the same names, places and details on the files of thousands of survivers who have nothing else in common but won't tell the individuals they're counciling that there are others who have suffered the same crimes by the same people, that together, they they could mount a successfull case against.

It's a rare thing that survivers are even told by these "caring proffesionals" that they are not alone in their experience and worse still councilors often lead survivers to doubt the depth and details of their experiences despite knowing the same people and practices litter their other files.

Though justifiable fear does preclude many from personally seeking justice that's no excuse for the police, medical and mental health proffessionals and social and support workers not collecting and correlating the details of events and practices to mount 'stings' and run successfull prosicutions.

The size of the problem, the thousands of supporting statements from otherwise unconected people, should make it easy to successfully prosicute a large number of sex slave providers and users but as so many of them are outwardly "good, respected and powerfull" people who benifit the work and social lives of so many other "good and respected" members of society, the status quo is the prefered option of the world community.

Human dignity and justice just don't rate against the persute of individual wealth and power which would be curtailed for too many should the world decide to end the sex slave industry.

Concider ATS, a CONSPIRACY web site, yet this most serious of issues gets rare discussion on quickly killed threads with the loudest noise usually coming from "good men" who demand 'proof' from survivers and their supporters then call them crazy and/or liers. These "good men" know that acceptance is the first step to recovery so must cause people to doubt the depth and spread of the problem.

Yes "THEY" are everywhere, in hospitals, police stations, sports clubs, schools, churches, courts, up and down your business streets and even here but that's too horrible to concider, better to get on with enjoying the witty banter of those who attack the victims and make another business deal over another round of golf.

O.K. This is conspiracy site, right?

The sex slave industry needs a hell of alot of people CONSPIRING to keep it alive and well, right?

So why has this tread died after a day and barely two pages when a thread of masons praising themselves goes on for 36 pages and a hell of a long time?

Loam, the all too early death of this thread should tell you loud and clear why the sex slave industry is so huge. The 'good', intelligent, educated people of the world don't want to risk upsetting the 'good', intelligent, educated investers in and users of the industry. Their 'respect' and 'favours' are far more important than the just and humane treatment of women and children.

In light of the International recognition of the massive scale of the sex slave industry, I ask people to deeply concider the motivation of those who accuse the survivers of Organized, Ritual Child Sexual Abuse, of "false memoury", delusions, mental illness etc.

It is encouraged to "suspect" and report "questionable behaviour" that could indicate "terrorist activity" but when you notice behaviour that does indicate involvment in the child sex trade you're told to keep your mouth shut unless YOU can "prove" it, something only those with the legal power to investigate can do, yet don't.

Claiming it is too big a problem to solve by "just" talking about it, is nothing less than laying out the cloak of silence under which otherwise "good and respected" members of YOUR community continue their evil without penalty.


[edit on 25-11-2005 by suzy ryan]

Just ran across this particular article of interest, loam.
The plight of the cellar girls




seekerof

How many men, who justify supporting the prostitution industry with meaningless phrases like, "They have a right to work", will stop after reading stories like "Cellar Girls", above? Between all or none, I'm betting closer to none.

What I find especially repellant is that the sales of sex slaves in Israel, a supposedly democratic and civilized country, not only is thriving, but practically has government sanction and condoning from the authorities, who more often than not punish the victims, or even worse, cases of Israeli cops actually taking women who are trying to flee their brutal captors and returning them to their "owners", who often torture, rape, and even murder their victims for escaping.

www.cbsnews.com...

www.ukrweekly.com...

www.amnestyusa.org...

Again, this is especially disturbing because Israel is supposed to be a "civilized" devloped country, yet their complacency and even condoning of public slavery of this sort is horrible. Its what Id expect of a devloping country where the whole system is corrupt. But these are our "friends".

I personally witnessed slavery alive and well in Saudi Arabia. I saw and tried to talk to Russian women who were basically forced sex slaves of their Saudi pimps, with no hope of escape and no legal recourse.

Its a disgusting aspect of the middle eastern world. Islam does condone slavery, although supposedly, they dont see it as wrong as long as you are nice to your slaves. The concept of owning human beings is culturally engrained in those really extreme muslim coutnries like Saudi Arabia, and non Arab women are treated horribly.

And of course, the influx of slaves from Africa still goes unchecked. African women and children, kidnapped and raped and forced to be concubines and prostitutes, or house hold slaves. And the Saudis are supposed to be our "friends"? They are even worse than the Israelis. These Saudis are the ones we spent billions of dollars and hundreds of American and allied lives to protect from Saddam.

Slavery is the most vile institution mankind has ever known, because it encompasses so much. No human being can nor should be owned by another, a concept that unfortunately has been lost to the biggest religons in the world, especially those birthed in the middle east (Christanity included, although the Christians did end up giving up slavery long ago, while the Muslims continue to practice it unfettered).

Don't worry so much about Israel and foreign, distant lands, America has a huge stake in this evil financial pie. The worlds worst PROVEN conspiracy and so few here want to talk about it...yet again, silence supports this "business".

Well at least not everyone is clueless....

Governor writes Rumsfeld on human trafficking

Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich has written Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld in response to the recent revelation that the Pentagon has not acted on presidential and congressional orders to stop doing business with companies that traffick in humans, The Chicago Tribune reports.

The Tribune reported last week that lobbyists for Halliburton's KBR and other companies objected to language in the orders that required them to monitor sub-contractors for use of forced labor or prostitution.

Excerpts from the Tribune's registration-restricted article follow:

more...

It drops under the radar here in US because the smart ones do it like this:

1. Family pushes girl or girl gets into strip club racket in Russia as a dancer

2. Russian mob types know they can make more from her in US or Israel

3. They say they will send here and outfit her and send her over on a student visa

4. Someone else here helps with getting them an apartment

5. Girls are "free" but must pay so much to local guy or send back each month. She keeps the rest and is either on the hook for good or for some period like 5 years. Then they are cut loose to fend for themselves. Honestly - the hard working ones do quite well and often don't have to go the full prostitution route as that would cause immigration problems so most go mainstream and strip. Some eventually marry and get out of the biz - some come here as part of the Russian bride thing and have to work to pay off the service.

I know - there is a local strip club with a number of Russian girls and while not all will tell it like it is some have....

Funds like this can help launder money from other practices....

Asian thing is more ugly because of cultural thing. Female not as good a s a male so they are sold off. That why there were dowries - pay a guys family to take the woman away - not right but has gone on for centuries....