It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Only One

page: 2
0
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Nov, 11 2005 @ 03:47 PM
link   

Originally posted by Seekerof
It is Veterens Day at my house, not sure what it is at yours.





seekerof

[edit on 11-11-2005 by Seekerof]


It Rememberance Day at my house and Veterans Day at many of my American friends and I see nothing wrong with showing our support for our brave servicepeople by wanting to bring them home.

Insinuating that wanting to bring them home lessens Vet's Day is ridiculous and petty.




posted on Nov, 11 2005 @ 03:55 PM
link   

Originally posted by UM_Gazz
I am sorry for breaking a rule here.. but I rest my case!



After insinuating what you have, I would rest my case, as well.


Thanks to all that have served!








seekerof



posted on Nov, 11 2005 @ 03:58 PM
link   

War, this war... from my point of view has done more harm than good and the current perpetuation of it’s harsh policies will only create an ultimate conflict between cultures and all because the threat of a small group of terrorists led us to Iraq?


I know many of you either are to young to know the history, or are attempting to re write it, but this war has been looming for a long time.


There are billions of humans on this planet so what I have to say means little or nothing.

I am only one.


What the hell is this?


Was it good intentions that took our armies to Iraq? Or was it the overwhelming sense of ultimate power placed and used in the right/wrong hands?


Yes it was good intentions.


This war is a trial of them.. And us.. Who is more or less guilty here?


The differences between us and them are so stark that it give me physical pain to think there are people who have to ask that question.

These people blow up schools and behead living people with knives while chanting "Praise god". They take over schools just to kill children. The list goes on and on, but unless you have been living in a cave you should know all of this.


I say to you... perhaps the world seems safe now to some because of this war.. But have we seen the worst yet? Do we really want the whole Islamic world united in hatred against us?


Again, they already were. Remember 9/11? How about the first TT bombing? Perhaps the bombing in Bereuit? This war has been going on for a while now and its only going to get bigger. It is a war they wanted and now they are going to get.


Leave Iraq now.. Bring our troops home. Let the healing begin, search for a real path to peace.. End this madness and bloodshed. And wait for the new enemy you have helped create


By healing do you mean the all out civil war that will happen in Iraq after we leave? Hell, a civil war would be good compared to what would likely transpire.

I like how you blame the US for people that choose to kill themselvs and others. Perhaps you should spend less time writing bad poems and more time learning your history.



posted on Nov, 11 2005 @ 04:11 PM
link   
Nice post, UM_Gazz.

War is sometimes a necessary evil. But when it's not necessary, it's just plain evil.



posted on Nov, 11 2005 @ 04:15 PM
link   
Speaking of poetry, here's one I wrote in memory of Superdude (its at the bottom, written for remembrance day).

It's remembrance day in my home as well...taking a moment to remember my dad, a veteran of a world war and the Indonesian conflict, my father in law, who landed in Italy and fought his way to Holland, their brothers and sisters, their friends and fellow citizens. War has touched them all and their sacrifice will not be forgotten.

Nor will Superdude.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 11-11-2005 by masqua]



posted on Nov, 11 2005 @ 04:15 PM
link   

Originally posted by Dronetek

I like how you blame the US for people that choose to kill themselvs and others. Perhaps you should spend less time writing bad poems and more time learning your history.


Blame?

Where did you see me blaming anyone for anything?

And please fogive me.. history has little to do with what I wrote about.. nor is it poetry.

Is it just "them" that choose to kill themselves and others?

I thought there was killing on both sides here?

History is being written as we speak... in THIS war... I was not talking about other wars.. nor am I bashing anyone for supporting any war.

I am simply using the right given me by those who fought and died to keep... FREEDOM.. as as you have done.. using my freedom to express my thoughts and opinions.

I dare anyone and everyone to do the same.. ALWAYS!



Gazz




[edit on 11-11-2005 by UM_Gazz]



posted on Nov, 11 2005 @ 05:04 PM
link   
Excellent Post Mate!



What is WAR?

Let's check Major General Smedley Butler, my Favourite US Marine:



War Is A Racket

It always has been. It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives.

I know, it's Veterans Day, and we should not talk about some anti-war crap, right?

BUT LISTEN...



A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small "inside" group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes.

Just like this War Today in Iraq.

Men and Women Die on daily basis - Iraqi, American, all of them are paying the Expensive part of the War Price.

Meanwhile the "Elite Few" count their Profits and Laugh at us, for letting them do that.

You know what I am waiting to Happen - but it's kind of a Longshot?

An Alien Invasion, that would UNITE the Human Kind Once and for all, in a Big Struggle against a REAL Enemy, that wants to Wipe out every single one of us, Men and Women of Planet Earth.

Because, sadly, that is the ONLY way we will ever realize, that this Planet is a GIFT to all of us - not Spoils of War for the Elite Few....

FIGHT WARS
NOT WAR!

external image

War? What is it GOOD FOR?

(photo was taken by me, on graveyard of Italian soldiers from WWI that fought and died on territory of Slovenia on theIsonzo Front, frontline on a River, that borders Slovenia and Italy - a Beautiful place in the mountains, that was turned into a bloody front.)


Mod Edit: image size only.

[edit on 11-11-2005 by UM_Gazz]



posted on Nov, 11 2005 @ 11:11 PM
link   
Seeker. I have seen you brush past posts calling for the nuking of the middle east, and not even cared. You were also a moderator at the time.



posted on Nov, 12 2005 @ 10:21 AM
link   

Originally posted by cargo
Seeker. I have seen you brush past posts calling for the nuking of the middle east, and not even cared. You were also a moderator at the time.


Moderators Are People Too. (and they have opinions)



posted on Nov, 12 2005 @ 10:56 AM
link   

Originally posted by UM_Gazz

War, this war... from my point of view has done more harm than good and the current perpetuation of it’s harsh policies will only create an ultimate conflict between cultures and all...



you are too observant to be a good and patriotic American

you are in dire need of re-education

i reckon you to be sent to the frontline the next time your administration decided to bomb some muslim / chinese



posted on Nov, 12 2005 @ 11:12 AM
link   

Originally posted by betaiso
you are too observant to be a good and patriotic American

you are in dire need of re-education


Well educate me!!

Don't hold back.. no matter what you think.. let it rip!

I can take it.. and I welcome all posts!

What good is a discussion if everyone agrees?

No matter what your opinion is.. if posted within the terms and conditions of use.. I will give you my respect. .. anyone brave enough to tell it like it is??

If not .. back to your regular discussions.... Happy posting!!


Gazz



posted on Nov, 12 2005 @ 12:02 PM
link   

Originally posted by UM_Gazz

War, this war... from my point of view has done more harm than good and the current perpetuation of it’s harsh policies will only create an ultimate conflict between cultures and all...



Maybe it is a language thing, but this sentence shocked me.

I'd tried to imagine a world without the valor and bravery of men and women in America’s military, and the sacrifices they make to let not only Americans live in freedom and safety.

  • World War II had not been about the Jews.
    But in 1945 the U.S. army freed Nazi Concentration Camps.
    Would my people still exist today without the US army fighting against the Hitler and the Nazis?

  • In January 2005, about 15.5 million of Iraq's 26 million people were registered to vote the nation's first free election in half a century. And from the early hours of the morning, People filled the street to the voting centers: youths, elders, women and men. They NEVER would have been able to do so under Saddam.

    G-d bless the defenders of freedom.


UM-Gazz,

what would you fight for?


  • Do you believe in the universal possibility and desirability of human freedom?

  • Do you think that certain basic moral truths are recognizable everywhere in the world?


    Originally posted by UM_Gazz

    Only one



    Im ayn ani li, mi li?
    ( If I am not for myself who will be for me)

    U chseani latzmi, ma ani?
    (If I am only for myself what am I)

    V im lo achshav, eymatai?
    (If not now, when)

    (Rabbi Hillel, 1 C.E.)

    [edit on 12-11-2005 by Riwka]



  • posted on Nov, 12 2005 @ 01:02 PM
    link   

    Originally posted by Riwka

    what would you fight for?

  • Do you believe in the universal possibility and desirability of human freedom?

  • Do you think that certain basic moral truths are recognizable everywhere in the world?



  • I do believe in the "universal possibility and desirability of human freedom" But not if it means we sacrifice any and every chance at peace to pursue conflict and war in a place and time that is not necessary.

    If we continue to build the hatred and division between the Islamic and Western cultures in this war.. What have we gained in future security?

    Are we feeding the enemies or winning this “war”?



    Do you think that certain basic moral truths are recognizable everywhere in the world?


    Not really.. People of other nations and other cultures are not always going to see the world as we do, so our views of what are “moral truths” will not always agree.

    Who are we to impose our “moral truths” on anyone who does not want them?

    Thank you Riwka for a thought provoking and interesting post.



    Gazz


    [edit on 12-11-2005 by UM_Gazz]



    posted on Nov, 12 2005 @ 01:43 PM
    link   
    UM_Gazz, no offence but how in Heck did you manage to become a moderator with the attitude you have expressed towards Seekerof?

    His comments have been justified and true.

    The fact that you had let this matter get waaaay off topic only furthers what he has stated.

    "Seeker .. you win" - UM_Gazz... what can someone say when comments this puerile are made?

    Though I can understand your message and am in no way trying to belittle that which you are trying to convey, I think the manner in which you have approached it has been poor.

    Nobody has stated that you may not have an opinion, but surely you are subject to the rules of the board as is everyone else for the reasons stated by Seekerof.

    If anything it seems as though you are goading Seekerof into a flaming match by the way your replies to his posts.


    This kind of #### belongs in Livejournal.


    Oh sir, you are so much smarter than everyone else. No one understands but you. You’r worldly views and diplomatic attitude set you apart from the barbarians.



    You have voted Dronetek for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.
    - how can so many people get the wrong idea about this..?



    posted on Nov, 12 2005 @ 01:53 PM
    link   

    Originally posted by Klepto
    UM_Gazz, no offence but how in Heck did you manage to become a moderator with the attitude you have expressed towards Seekerof?


    Klepto, you Seekerof, everyone has a right to their own opinions.

    What is amazing to me.. is why we are discussing the forum this is posted in, and not the content.

    I replied to seekerof in kind.. and I can assure you I have great respect for seekerof.. we have history together.

    Why not discuss the content of my post and not where it is posted?

    I am a moderator.. but I am also a member. I have my own thoughts, my own opinions.. I am owned by no one.

    I am as free as you and everyone to post my thoughts, opinions and information here.

    So... don't be afraid.. take on the topic.. if you dare!


    Gazz



    posted on Nov, 12 2005 @ 03:04 PM
    link   
    excellent topic UM_Gazz

    its just funny how people here jump up as soon as they see someones opinion to vage for their intrests



    posted on Nov, 12 2005 @ 03:07 PM
    link   

    Originally posted by bodrul
    excellent topic UM_Gazz

    its just funny how people here jump up as soon as they see someones opinion to vage for their intrests


    Which people would this be then Bodrul? Nobody has stated that they had a problem with the opinion expressed by UM_Gazz. However, he has asked that people give their opinions.. not sure about the humor element of that whatsoever..

    [edit on 12/11/05 by Klepto]



    posted on Nov, 12 2005 @ 03:21 PM
    link   
    Uh?

    I thought this was about the war on terrorism?

    Is anyone willing to discuss it?

    Or are we just going to talk about who posted what?

    Where is your passion ATS?

    Deny Ignorance

    Even mine!


    Gazz



    posted on Nov, 12 2005 @ 03:38 PM
    link   

    Originally posted by UM_Gazz
    So what I have to say here is irrelevant and to be ignored by all.


    You said it dewd, but I'll throw you a bone.



    War, this war... from my point of view has done more harm than good and the current perpetuation of it’s harsh policies will only create an ultimate conflict between cultures and all because the threat of a small group of terrorists led us to Iraq?

    Was it good intentions that took our armies to Iraq? Or was it the overwhelming sense of ultimate power placed and used in the right/wrong hands?

    it was neither, it was instigated by those two really tall building that were used for target practise in 2001. Iraq apparently had WMD and so then the 'liberation' took place. (how they managed to find Saddam Hussein in an burried underground bunker in the middle of nowhere but they cannot find OBL is beyond me.. The war in Iraq was not unjust but unfounded.



    I say to you... perhaps the world seems safe now to some because of this war.

    On the contrary, I think that now action has been taken, the worlds nations are in a far more dangerous position regardless of whether you are Pro West or not.



    But have we seen the worst yet? Do we really want the whole Islamic world united in hatred against us? If so then the plan is working well and the division continues to grow. Well done!!

    Contrived but correct, the polarization between the Islamic nations and community and those the activists of these Islamic groups are against has caused great tension which would be hard to repair. But I think this is the fault of both parties not being able to respect and have the willing to have a greater understanding of the individuals rights and cultures.



    Leave Iraq now.. Bring our troops home. Let the healing begin, search for a real path to peace.. End this madness and bloodshed. And wait for the new enemy you have helped create.

    This won't happen unless both sides want this to happen... both are too proud and have lost to much just to call it a day. This is a battle for dignity if you ask me.



    posted on Nov, 12 2005 @ 05:05 PM
    link   
    What is odd is the fact that this thread's purpose is to highlight the conflict occuring between Pro Western and Anti Western activists who cannot see an amicable resolution but a similar (although somewhat minute scale) occurance has occured here and yet any conflict that occured has been resolved through amicable communication.

    Those not capable of amicable communication should not be in positions of power yet this is obviously not the case.

    No side regardless of their cultural, social or moral opinion want those they care about to die.

    Yet the leaders of both sides continue to do this by convincing these individuals who die for their countries that what they are doing is the right thing.

    This is done without finding out why the individual on side can want the same resolution as the other.. namely a peacful existence.




    top topics



     
    0
    << 1    3 >>

    log in

    join