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Why Atheists Just Don't Get IT.

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posted on Nov, 11 2005 @ 11:46 AM
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WHY ATHIESTS JUST DON’T GET IT.


They can’t.


What I mean by this is they simply can not fathom what those who do believe in God do comprehend. Everyone who does truly view everything with the belief and absolute faith that the whole of it is closely inter-related and of a supreme being is able to see how everything that is … . is more easily understood with the insight of knowing it is all inspired from the same source. Individuals who do not view the world as it is so closely inter-related and do not believe in a creator deity, supreme consciousness, or God operate with a brain that tends to compartmentalize all information. They tend to integrate information in their brains as though it has absolutely no correlation to another subject. So atheist seem to be able to accept one factual statement supported with reasonable logic and accept this tidbit of information as being undisputable fact in one hand, and they can have another undeniable truth in the other hand, but when they form a bowl shape with their hands and put both truths together … the sum of both can not be true due to the contradiction of the very accepted truths themselves. A (relatively poor) example of this is this little riddle:

Three guys rent a hotel room for a night that costs $30.00.
Each of the three pays $10.00, which adds up to the total cost of $30.00.
The next morning the manager decides that because of a cable TV outage she will reimburse the three guys $5.00.
She gives the $5.00 to the bellhop to take up to the three guys.
On the way up to the room the bellhop puts $2.00 in his pocket and keeps it.
The bellhop then gives the remaining $3.00 to the three gentlemen.
So, now instead of each of the three guys being charged $10.00 for the room, they in fact each got $1.00 back and only paid $9.00 a piece for the room.
$9.00 times three guys equals $27.00.
Plus the $2.00 the bellhop kept for himself equals $29.00.
If: 9x3=27, and 27+2=29 …. What happened to the other dollar?
We started with $30.00, but only $29.00 is accounted for.

If you can accept everything above as it is written and can not quickly account for the lost dollar, then perhaps you the observer is faulted and not utilizing fully all of your cognitive faculties.

What atheists don’t always seem to understand is:
They want us that do believe in God to know how stupid and illogical it is to do so.
Why are they telling us what lies behind the hills and mountain range on my side of the fence? They have never been on this side of the fence. They have not once truly observed their environment knowing there is a God, but yet they will tell those who know there is a God what it means to be experiencing life knowing there is a God, having never truly believed there is a God. But, people who do believe in a God started on their side of the fence, and know what it is like to observe the world from the point of view of the atheists, or agnostics.

Why is it easy for atheists to justify their logic and pass judgment upon non atheists through opinionated prejudicial objectivity when they don’t have any personal experience to draw upon from within there own mind to know what the other half of the scales hold?

People who do believe in God see how atheists don’t even comprehend the vast majority of information, and of course never having operated from their point of view atheists don’t even see it.

Yet, atheists will tell those who do subscribe to the belief in a higher being what it means to believe in a higher being, but only to the degree of what experiences they have to draw upon, and none of those experiences were accumulated with the knowledge that there is a God. So atheists will be telling those who believe in God what it is like on their side of the fence from the other side of the fence.

People who believe in God are able to see easier correlations in what may have been previously unrelated disciplines.

And, this is one argument I’ve heard / contributed to / and countered in regards as to why atheists just can not understand what it truly means to know God exists. The miracles elude them, or more to the point: They don’t even witness or experience them. Their world is literally Godless from their point of view, and they are constantly choosing to not be wrong about it.

Thanks for reading all that, and thanks in advance for your contributions. And thanks specifically to Spamandham for the inspiration for this thread.




posted on Nov, 11 2005 @ 11:57 AM
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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
We started with $30.00, but only $29.00 is accounted for.


I don't see how you can come to this conclusion. I see all $30 as accounted for.



posted on Nov, 11 2005 @ 12:08 PM
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I'd just like to say that very few Atheists want to convince you of anything. Only a small portion of atheists denounce those who believe differently than they do. And I believe those are who you're talking about.

I really hate how you've catagorized all non-believers as just 'not getting it'. It seems really closed-minded to me.
And it's not true. Many 'get it' they just don't chose it. And you'll probably never hear a word from them.


Your whole post is, in a way, a mirror of some of the "Why Believers just don't get it" threads I've seen by these radical atheists you speak of. I don't like those either.


Your judgments and assumptions about atheist and agnostics as just 'never having known' is also incorrect. Many have lived on both sides of the fence.



posted on Nov, 11 2005 @ 12:57 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic


Your judgments and assumptions about atheist and agnostics as just 'never having known' is also incorrect. Many have lived on both sides of the fence.


I realize it may seem as though the points I regurgitate may appear as my judgements and my personal assumptions, because I choose to present certain thoughts from a certain point of view. However, I may or may not personally believe the statements I am making, but would like to hear the passionate arguements and strive to give thought to how others choose to use whatever rhetoric they choose to either support or counter the ideas and viewpoints I present. In previous threads I've started this week I make some statements as:

1) If one accepted definition (accepted by some, not all) of atheists is that they do not subscribe to the belief that there is a higher supreme deity that brought them into existance through some creation process, then operating from the viewpoint that the definition is accepted as one possible interpritation of "atheist", then isn't GOD an atheist if GOD doesn't believe in a higher or more supreme creator deity brought GOD into existance?

2) Some people are capable of seeing how one could define atheist that way, and see how GOD could be an atheist under that definition.

3) Now Christians believe that Christ was GOD, and that they should strive to be more like Christ (WWJD).

4) If you can imagine how all three of these are true, then you can comprehend how:

Christianities goal could be described as being the goal to convert atheists or individuals of other faiths to Christianity so they accept Christ as God and instill in them a desire to be Christlike, now Christ being God and God being an Atheist, then the goal of Christianity could be construde by certain minds as trying to take atheists and convert them to Christianity with Christianities highest achievement of being like God, an atheist.

In other words: Converting athiests to atheists.

Now, looking at that thread one may think I'm an athiest argueing for atheists. When in fact, I may or may not be one, but was motivated to make such statements to merely consider how other minds work to explain whether they believe one way or the other, and support their beliefs with the best jargon they can throw out there.

So, my point is:

Please do not assume I pre-judge or make assumptions with the statements I make. I will not take your rebuttals personally, but don't permit the statements I make to be a personal attack on you, for your beliefs are certainly held in reverence by me.

If I did not respect your opinion or point of view ... I would not reply to your contributions. And, beleive it or not, I have in the past debated/argued against ideologies and perspectives that I do believe in, without the knowledge of the one I was debating knowing I actually agreed with them, but wanted to see how they choose to support there stand on a specific subject.

I hope this helps clarify the why and how of what motivates me. I want your most passionate and logical thoughts in rhetoric and typed words with the tone of your voice muted and the expressions of your face unknown to me. The passion and wisdom and experience people hear at BTS and ATS are worth it, some times you have to push a little hareder to get some to unload at a higher level, a deeper level.

I know this way of accumilating knowledge on my part may offend others, and I usually only use this tactic on people who it appears to me to flip-flop somewhat in their beliefs, and I am simply trying to ascertain (and help them ascertain) what it is they believe more than anything else. Few people are prepared to present their most profound truth for strangers to put under the microscope, out of fear of loosing what they believe in most.

I'm babbling.

In Summary:
I don't necessarily accept as absolute fact the statements that you may not agree with. But, whatever contribution you make is appreciated at the very least by me, whether I acknowledge that fact out loud or not. Thanks.



posted on Nov, 11 2005 @ 01:16 PM
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One point I'd like to add:
Athiests tend to see the fence and recognize a seperation of boundries as the concept of ideologies suggests. However, most people who truly recognize the necessity of divinity and percieve their environment under that pretense no longer acknowledge the fence. (i.e. Garth Brooks's album entitled "No More Fences"). An atheist may not see God in that album title, but an individual of faith may equate that title to something with a deeper meaning.

[edit on 11-11-2005 by Esoteric Teacher]



posted on Nov, 11 2005 @ 03:54 PM
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So, what I get out of all that you said is that you don't necessarily believe in what you've said in that first post, you're just trying to get passionate responses?

If that's the case, I'm the wrong one to be posting here because I have no desire to defend my point of view as the 'right way to believe'.

Somehow, I feel sure that I have no idea what you're looking for in the way of responses, so I'll just bow (not so gracefully) out.



posted on Nov, 11 2005 @ 04:03 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
So, what I get out of all that you said is that you don't necessarily believe in what you've said in that first post, you're just trying to get passionate responses?

If that's the case, I'm the wrong one to be posting here because I have no desire to defend my point of view as the 'right way to believe'.

Somehow, I feel sure that I have no idea what you're looking for in the way of responses, so I'll just bow (not so gracefully) out.




Sorry to have offended you. Sometimes it is beneficial to introduce thoughts to see how others feel about them. I don't mean to deceive, but when I express that I may or may not subscribe to the belief I'm argueing .... people seem to leave .... as though they were looking for the fight, but since there isn't going to be one it gets less interesting and then ..... . . . they leave.



posted on Nov, 11 2005 @ 04:30 PM
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I have to ask, what about other religions that do not have the same concepts as Christianity? Are they also wrong? I don't think so. Every religion is equal. Christianity is no better than the other religions of the world.



posted on Nov, 11 2005 @ 04:35 PM
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I wasn't at all offended. No need for an apology.


I simply came in to point out that not all Atheists and Agnostics think people who believe in God are wrong or foolish. And that many Atheists and Agnostics, at one time, believed in God themselves, so it's not like they've never had the experience (which is a point I believe you made in your first post, whether you really believe it or not).

That's all I really had to add. I'm not 'leaving', I just already said what I had to say.



posted on Nov, 11 2005 @ 04:35 PM
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Originally posted by jetsetter
I have to ask, what about other religions that do not have the same concepts as Christianity? Are they also wrong? I don't think so. Every religion is equal. Christianity is no better than the other religions of the world.


Different paths. Same Destination.



posted on Nov, 11 2005 @ 04:37 PM
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You say your not looking for a fight....but read your title. Atheism is not telling anyone anything. If you hear some Atheists telling you it is illogical to believe in God, they represent a small portion of the group, as it is with any belief.

I found strong atheists and weak atheists get mixed in together. The things you argue are against only strong atheism, as weak atheism isnt even a belief.

BTW: What was your first example trying to prove? All money is accounted for.



posted on Nov, 11 2005 @ 04:37 PM
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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher

Originally posted by jetsetter
I have to ask, what about other religions that do not have the same concepts as Christianity? Are they also wrong? I don't think so. Every religion is equal. Christianity is no better than the other religions of the world.


Different paths. Same Destination.


No. Sorry but you are wrong. There are hundreds of different religions that have a wide range of beliefs. Some are alike but many are very different from each other.



posted on Nov, 11 2005 @ 04:47 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I wasn't at all offended. No need for an apology.


I simply came in to point out that not all Atheists and Agnostics think people who believe in God are wrong or foolish. And that many Atheists and Agnostics, at one time, believed in God themselves, so it's not like they've never had the experience (which is a point I believe you made in your first post, whether you really believe it or not).


I'm glad I didn't offend. I do agree with you that not all Athiests look down on those who do have a faith.

But, (and I do believe this) I find it hard to understand how one could even briefly believe in an omnipotent/omnipresent Consciousness, and not see it.

It is one thing to say "I once believed in God", but totally another to experience everything with the accepted precept that everything stems from a consciousness that is still within everything due to the fact you would accept God is everywhere in all things at all times to include within me the observer.

Until one believes whole heartedly God is in all things at all times, they only see a world where God isn't.

I guess my experiences must differ from yours, because I do not see how one could not see things differently after having truly defragged their brain as they do their computer, and then after having the doors opened and experienced all that is, go back to saying their is no God.

If they can, I can only operate under the presumption that there is no way they have experienced their environment with the acceptance of an omni-presence Consciousness and then rebuked it .. . . unless they truly did not believe it.



posted on Nov, 11 2005 @ 04:49 PM
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Originally posted by jetsetter

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher

Originally posted by jetsetter
I have to ask, what about other religions that do not have the same concepts as Christianity? Are they also wrong? I don't think so. Every religion is equal. Christianity is no better than the other religions of the world.


Different paths. Same Destination.


No. Sorry but you are wrong. There are hundreds of different religions that have a wide range of beliefs. Some are alike but many are very different from each other.


Only percieved as different from eachother.



posted on Nov, 11 2005 @ 04:49 PM
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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher

Originally posted by jetsetter
I have to ask, what about other religions that do not have the same concepts as Christianity? Are they also wrong? I don't think so. Every religion is equal. Christianity is no better than the other religions of the world.


Different paths. Same Destination.



then why do your christian brothers and sisters demonize them?

also, why do you christian brothers and sisters force their views on people who just dont want to hear it? case in point the recent problem the Air Force Academy has had with evangelical cadets telling other cadets that they are going to go to hell unless they believe the way the evangelical cadets believe.

someone needs to get members of the christian faith under control! same goes to islam and other religions

Pat Roberts or Robertson what ever the hell his last name is is an evil person.
Praying fo opening in the suprem court? He wants to turn this country into a theocracy! hes no better than the radical islamic clerics in the middle east!

you guys need to get it together and just accept that fact that you cannot "save" them all.



posted on Nov, 11 2005 @ 04:49 PM
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I have no problem with other people believe in religion. Some of the first scientist were monks. They spent their time observing the world around them.



posted on Nov, 11 2005 @ 04:54 PM
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Originally posted by Charlie Murphy

BTW: What was your first example trying to prove? All money is accounted for.


9 + 9 + 9 = 27
27 + 2 = 29

3 guys pay $10 a piece for a room. $30
Hotel Manager gives $5 to bellhop to give to 3 guys.
Bellhop pockets $2.
Bellhop gives $1 back to each guy.
Each guy has now paid $9 (a piece) for the room.
9 x 3 = 27
The bellhop kept $2
27 + 2 = 29

If you can account for how 9 + 9 + 9 + 2 adds up to 29 and not 30, pat yourself on the back.



posted on Nov, 11 2005 @ 05:03 PM
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The Hotel has 25 $.
The three men combined have 3$.
The cheap bellhop has 2$.

25+3+2= 30.

The way it was written is just an attempt to confuse the reader. As I'm sure you know there is no missing dollar.



posted on Nov, 11 2005 @ 05:04 PM
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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
If they can, I can only operate under the presumption that there is no way they have experienced their environment with the acceptance of an omni-presence Consciousness and then rebuked it .. . . unless they truly did not believe it.


I thought you might say something like that.
And I won't defend how involved some Atheists or Agnostics were or try to convince you of past belief in God or an omnipotent/omnipresent Consciousness, whatever you want to call it. I will just say that with me, there is no rebuking involved. More like a realization. There is no negativity about it at all.

I will also say that being an Atheist or Agnostic does not preclude a very spiritual belief system.

If you really are curious about my beliefs, I've talked at length in PODcasts threads about them. Here are 2:

Why I Don't Believe in God
Why Religion is Dying



posted on Nov, 11 2005 @ 05:07 PM
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Originally posted by KrazyIvan

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher

Originally posted by jetsetter
I have to ask, what about other religions that do not have the same concepts as Christianity? Are they also wrong? I don't think so. Every religion is equal. Christianity is no better than the other religions of the world.


Different paths. Same Destination.



then why do your christian brothers and sisters demonize them?


My christian brothers and sisters?


also, why do you christian brothers and sisters force their views on people who just dont want to hear it? case in point the recent problem the Air Force Academy has had with evangelical cadets telling other cadets that they are going to go to hell unless they believe the way the evangelical cadets believe.


Their learning.


someone needs to get members of the christian faith under control!


OK.

1) God doesn't worship any supreme being therefor God is an Atheist.
2) Christians believe Christ is God.
3) Christians also aspire to be like Jesus (Christian means Christlike)
4) Christians believe in Monothiesm.
5) So, Christians convert athiests so they believe that Christ is God, and aspire to be as much like Christ as they can be who is God and God does not believe in anything being above God, fitting one defintion of atheism.

Therefore: The purpose of Christianity is to convert atheists into atheists.

Does that help get christian faith under control?

Your Welcome,
SSgt John P. Go...

[edit on 11-11-2005 by Esoteric Teacher]



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