the true islam

people please get back to reality, you wake up every morning and look at yourself in the mirrow and your another day older.

i dont quite know who you are addressing here, but i'm not sure what you mean

I was addressing anyone who was posting, religions tension comes from a flawed idea that one relligion is better than another, as far as Im concerned we all pray to the same god.

The words are offered to the few that will never know the real joys of life and how free you can be by doing whats right.

Sorry if it burns

doesnt burn at all, no apology neccessary.
I dont believe that my religion is better. I believe in God and therefore believe that those that believe in God will be fine. (The Quran tells me this)

Out of curiousity, are you an atheist?

Originally posted by geek101
Even if its not, God still doesnt give that right. There is yet another thing he must do first. Which is refuse to sleep in the same bed.

Honestly geel101; Would you REALLY be upset if your husband, whom you're mad at, slept apart from you? I think most wives would say "great; no wifely dities tonight"!

Originally posted by geek101
If that doesnt work either, and the wife is still ill-treating him (remember, ILL-TREATING him, NOT disobeying him, or rebelling against him), then God finally gives that right.

Elsewhere in the Quran, God tells us that men and women are protectors of one another.

So since they are protectors of each other, the wife, then, has equal authority to "beat" her husband (as a last resort) if he "Ill-treats" her---right?!? The answer is no. BTW; please show the reference where it says they are protectors of each other.

Originally posted by geek101
Women are told that if she fears ill-treatment from her husband, she can seek divorce.

You're very fortunate to be living under constitutional law because you have rights, freedoms, and abilites, that a divorced woman lving under Sharia does not.

Originally posted by geek101
So why would God on the one hand advise men to beat their wives and then tell the wives to divorce their husbands when they do so?

Because firstly, quill to paper, the Qur'an, the Bible, or any religious texts, are written by mortal men (or are dictated by an illiterate who claims to have memorized them) who wish to control others. It is verses like 4:34, as well as the passages in the Hadith that women are often treated so badly in the Islamic world. In other words: You are the "tiny minority" of Muslims that step out of line with mainstream Islam.

Originally posted by geek101
Who says i am not a muslim if i reject the hadith?
You?
The sunnis?

The Majority of Muslims worldwide.

Originally posted by geek101
I dont care....I AM a muslim and i dont need you or some guy in saudi arabia or some guy here in the uk, telling me i'm not, just because i dont follow the hadith.

Fair enough Just becareful expressing your opinions in mixed Islamic company.

Originally posted by geek101
People should look things up for themselves and not rely on what other people tell them.

If you are truly interested in islam, i urge you, to seek less orthodox means of studying it. Forget the scholars, the imams, the sunni and shia way. Read the quran yourself, arm yourself with even a limited knowledge of arabic. And i promise you, it will take you about a week to discover that all is not what it seems.

I assure you that I do research things for myself. I need to make my position very clear now: I have NO personal stake in Islam. If it weren't for the attacks on my country on 9/11/2001, I would never be giving Islam a first glance. But I became curious as to how these Islamofascist do what they do and are able to justify (in their minds) that they are working in Allah's favor. It turns out that most of what they do is suported by a combination of the Qur'an, the Hadith, and in limited ways, Sharia as it is practiced in Islamic countries.

I understand your need to engage me on these issues. However, I believe your efforts would be much more fruitful if you instead engaged "extremists" in their beliefs. It is they who need to be confronted by "moderate" Muslims such as yourself. As I said: I have no personal stake in Islam. You, however, do and I believe it is YOUR responsibility to confront those whom you believe are "hijacking" your religion.

Geek101; I'm fairly comfortable that you, and many other Muslims like you, don't wish to kill me because I'm a "dis-believer". But I also believe that you are in the minority in your general beliefs of Islam. I believe that MOST Muslims would rather live in a society that is completely dictated by Islam.

You even say yourself:

Originally posted by geek101
I would love for the world to be run according to Gods law.

...indicating your desire for the world to be dictated by Islam. I find this highly ironic since you enjoy the freedoms and benefits provided under CONSTITUTIONAL law. Once you throw religion into the mix you are now subjected by SOMEONE ELSE's ideas of religious mores because surely there are others who don't view "God's Law" the same as you. Imagine living under Taliban rule? Or under Christian rule for that matter. So becareful what you wish for. I'll take a secular society any day of the week.

geek101

I'm sorry to see that you decided to abandon your own thread. I was enjoying the exchange we were having. Please come back! I want to see your responses to what I've stated here.

forget the racial religous crap and live every day like its your last, be the best you can be for you, because when its over you as you look in the mirror today will never be again, and the world will forget.

You know, somebody early in this thread asked why Christianity refuses to lodge commentary along with the Torah and the New Testament. This is one of the reasons. Commentary has a tendency to place itself over the actual teachings. Thus we get all forms of abominations which tend to turn people away from religion in General (especially the OT God, why so many Christians are turning to Buddhism, and Jews to Hinduism, as well as Muslims just abandoning religion altogether). I'm a Protestant, and one of my main misgivings against Roman Catholicism for instance, is the tendency of Catholics to put Papal pronouncements over the actual New Testament (No, I don't believe the Pope is the Vicar of Christ, that sounds absurd if your theology is biblical). My belief is that IF the Torah and the New Testament are indeed from God, they need no commentator, in fact commentary would be an insult to God and his prophets. Maybe if people would just read the bible instead of listening to Pat Robertson or some other false prophet there wouldn't be such a reactionary tendency against Christianity. Then again I can always dream.....

Wonderfull thread! I hope it continues.

I am new here, and I am a christinan. I, as any christian at some time or another, or anyone in any religion for that matter, question the basis of religion in general. The greeks thought for sure, as we do, that their gods were real and that they were all correct as they believed. We do the same, with normally the same blindness as they once did. Now I know that some kind of religious event happened sometime about 2006 years ago. What this was depends on who youa sk as to who it was done by. Could someone have been far ahead of their times and produced seemingly miracles for the world to know about. Was there some sort of actual magic that was involved in this that is now looked on as holy. My favorite, was there some sort of alien being who was here, (sort of like a superman theory) who had the ability to do things humans could not. Or did god actually send his son here, have him die on a cross for our sins, in a seemingly no purpose event. Theologically, I believe with my whole heart the last scenario. I believe with my sould that is what happened. My common sense however has to ask the question. God, the creator of all the earth and heavens, people, animals, everything, must have his son come to the planet he created and have him die so that our souls would be free to be forgiven. Why not just say this is how it is as he had done so many times before. Why make death occur to open life for human souls.

Sorry for this long post, it's just the question I have always been wanting someone to answer or give me insight into. The second and biggest brain buster of all. If god can do all of this and control the universe with his awesome power, why make this planet with humans and what not on it. This is the fun matrix theory. The bible starts with in the beginning, and end with a new heaven and new earth. How many times has this happened before. Is this an effort to perfect humans and the human spirit. The undeniable force that seems to make the free will stray from god. Is this an attempt to find the one thing that god can't control..... Is there one thing in this universe god has no control over. Is free will the one thing that has no control no matter what.
Why are we here. Maybe someday we will find out. I hate to think it but sometimes I think god may have been bored, otherwise why create things that have a better chance of going against him than with him.

Maybe this is a test project. If so, do we pass or fail. And if we fail.....is this the ultimate proof of heaven and hell?