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Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
I'll allow this as a conspiracy as one could say that the religion is being intentionally warped for evil and maniacle purposes, and I think maybe that is your direction.
Originally posted by Thomas CrowneMy response is this - don't feel like the lone stranger in regard to your belief being warped and twisted! Seems that is man's way.
As a Christian, I would really prefer you to accept Christ, but in regard to your difficulty with your own religion being trashed and perverted (Oh, how I can relate), all I can say is to hold tight to how it should be, show your children the difference between the right and wrong way (so that they will not be suckered by the perversions) and enlighten others along the way, as you can
If I went to church and only listened to what is being taught or preached and never checked for myself then my head would also be full of half truths and outright lies.
Knowledge is a powerful weapon, the lack of knowledge is likewise a terrible disability
I would say that much of what is un-kuranic is taken from the Hadiths no? THe commentaries that go alongside the Quran
I have to say that I am impressed that geek101 has said this. It shows what I suspect is something akin to the majority viewpoint of muslims, if not all, then certainly ones living in western countries
The true nature of religion, or how I view religion is all about how you apply the teaching of the religion into your daily life as a mean to improve yourself as a person in a morally, psychologically, and spiritually
So what are the basic teaching of the Muslim and the Catholic religions (besides the 10 commandments)? I'm curious to learn
The simplest check is to see if it contradicts what is in the Quran in any way
Your approach to the problem (disregarding all but the Quran), is not exactly unique -There are a number of sects that ascribe to it (Your a sect now )- but I don't personally believe (for all that is worth,) that it is correct.
Another example: The verse containing the actual alleged prohibition of alcohol refers to it as "khamr". Now the root word "khamr" means "fermentation" (ie. alcohol), but it is also taken to mean "intoxicants". Now, if I took the word to mean intoxicants, I would say: Ok, I can have whatever I want, as long as I am not intoxicated by it (otherwise it can be argued that ANYTHING can be considered intoxicating if you have it too much). If I didn't have the Hadith about how the revealation that alcohol was banned came to the Prophet, I would stick to my own idea, which would be wrong
I agree that much of the Hadith has been distorted, and there are a large number of "horror stories" of how people have "extracted" something completely unislamic out of the Hadith
Originally posted by geek101
I agree that the majority of muslims are not extremists, and do not wish to harm anyone or to have Islamic rule in non-islamic countries....and i would go as far to say that anyone who condones terrorist actions, has no actual right to be affiliated with ANY religion.
[edit on 11-11-2005 by geek101]
Originally posted by geek101
i actually said, i wasnt unique in this. To say that i am part of a sect however, is wrong, with all due respect
I am following what muhammad followed....the words of God (Quran)
It is you, who are following muhammad/bukhari/tirmidhi etc. It is you and your sect that has added the innovations to islam.
Originally posted by geek101
I respect that you dont believe that its correct. But answer me one more thing. If i didnt have any access to hadith collections.....could i be a good muslim by just following the quran?
Originally posted by geek101
but the verses concerning this, tell us to abstain from intoxicants.....not to just NOT get intoxicated. It clearly says, stay away from intoxicants. There is no ambiguity there, as far as i am concerned.
Originally posted by geek101
Exactly. Now think about this please. What is more logical:
1: God gives us the Quran, He tells us that He left nothing out of it, that it is detailed and has basic verses in it.....He gives us this Book and we are to live by it
2: The same as above, but He also waits a couple of hundred of years, then He makes 90% of our religion dependant upon another set of books, written by various people whom we do not know
Originally posted by babloyi
My point is, it's all very well to say that we should be like Muhammad - patient, compassionate, considerate, but how do we know that Muhammad was all these things?
[edit on 11-11-2005 by babloyi]
Originally posted by geek101
..to believe in ALL the Prophets and NOT to make distinction between ANY of them..
Originally posted by skyblueff0
Is it not obvious, the same way we know Jesus was all of those things, and perhaps much more. A man with faith in Jesus is no different from a man with faith in Muhammad, he believes it because his heart tells him so and because he is devoted to what he believe in. What crime is it to believe in something? These men - Jesus, Muhammad, Buddah, and much more - represent the ideal nature of what men should be. Is wrong to learn from such great avatars. The only crime would be ignorant and ignore or deny what these men could teach us due to fear of the masses would say and not taking a risk to embrace their teachings.
How realisitic do you think it could be that the majority who are not extremists stand up to those who are and projecting such a bad side of Islam and how they practice
My parents have dismissed it, saying the faithful followers, who do practice correctly, would not involve themselves in such a mission
Would this be considered a negative (unheard of action against your own, if you will) against their own people, even in light of what they are doing (suiicide bomings etc ...) ?
Originally posted by babloyi
I absolutely agree with you! I believe that Muhammad was an ideal example to follow, as was Jesus, and Buddha, etc. I was just making a point to explain my side of the argument.
Heheh....I have a feeling that geek was referring to past prophets, not some future ones. Muhammad was supposed to be the last Prophet. After him there is only Jesus (when he returns), and Elijah (I think?). To believe in all Prophets- meaning all the way from Adam, Noah, Abraham....to Muhammad.
Originally posted by geek101
I think perhaps the best way this could be solved, is for muslims themselves, first of all, to sort out their problems. To stop blaming the world and its mother for everything that goes wrong. If that were achieved, then maybe a more positive perception of islam could be shown, consequently denying the extremists their claims of religious activities.