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Poll: Calling all Canucks, who are going to vote for.

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posted on Nov, 27 2005 @ 07:36 PM
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Man.

Now that I'm finally 18, I don't know HOW I'll vote. I have this weird pick-and-choose thing going on, so I hate and like various concepts of all the parties. Lately it's been feeling pretty useless. Especially after reading all the conspiracy threads, heh. Like Sardion said:



I'm growing very tired of the games the Feds have been playing no matter who is in charge they ALWAYS find a way to disappoint and piss me off.


I'd vote for NDP since they seem the least evil (at least in theory), but I know that it is essentially impossible for them to win, so I wouldn't bother. Probably go conservative to try and keep as much of my money as possible. Maybe vote Communism? No?...

Anyways, I'd like if Liberals and Conservatives both put a bit more effort into targeting new voters. Because really I don't have that much knowledge of what's going on at all. I'm only really posting here to get my PTS post-count back up out of the negatives. hahaha.

Heck, maybe I should just run myself. Is there some age thing where you have to be like 50+ or something? Hm. I'll just post all my "For" and "Againsts" and see what happens. Probably get more votes than most other minority parties! lol.




posted on Nov, 28 2005 @ 12:23 AM
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Originally posted by Yarcofin


I'd vote for NDP since they seem the least evil (at least in theory), but I know that it is essentially impossible for them to win, so I wouldn't bother. Probably go conservative to try and keep as much of my money as possible. Maybe vote Communism? No?...


If you are going to cast a vote, do it for who you think is worth voting for, hell vote NDP. Think your wasting your vote if you do? Think again, sure they might not get enough seats for a government of their own, but they are a better voice of reason in the house then anyone else. Plus your vote does count, and even if an NDP candiadate doesn't win your riding, at least the numbers are there which means politicians in the house can look at how people voted and match that to the development of their policies. (which I will admit rarely happens, but does)

Last election the NDP got over 1 million votes, the green party had something like 4%... our generation needs to send a message. When you are older you will become far more active politically. when you see your 65k salary dwindle to nothing you will want to know where those tax dollars are going.

Fianl warning: If you vote conservative, I will punch you.



posted on Nov, 28 2005 @ 07:39 AM
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I think the main reason that people stopped voting NDP was because the time that they did actually make it into power, I thought a quarter of a billion dollars went missing, or something like that. (Before my time). But now with the Gomery Inquiry, I suppose things are evened out and pretty much every party has a similar event =).

Thank you for the warning. I will be sure to wear protective equipment to the booths, regardless of who I vote for.



posted on Nov, 28 2005 @ 09:08 AM
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Oh, hey, greetings to fellow Ottawa citizens, and Canadians. Keep your fingers crossed OCTranspo doesnt strike Ottawa.

I really dont know who I want in power any more. I mean, every party that I've felt had the balls to get things done, has ended up disappointing me in one way or another.

I think in the end, it will boil down to my right wing attitude, and I'll end up voting that way.

[edit on 28-11-2005 by johnsky]

[edit on 28-11-2005 by johnsky]



posted on Nov, 29 2005 @ 05:45 AM
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As a long-time Ontario voter, I have to take issue with some of the preceding comments.

First, not voting is just plain stupid. I don't care where you live, but apathy is simply not a choice. (Although you wouldn't know it from past election results.) If you don't vote, you surrender the right to complain later on. And I suspect that more than a few non-voters have been pressing the governments on hot button issues.

Second, protest voting; as what happened in Ontario when Bob Rae snuck in through the back-door - is ludicrous. We are still paying for that blunder!! Thank the teachers and nurses, who got screwed afterwards by Bob and his bunch, for splitting the vote. Although Peterson deserved it, he still gets his pension. Good work!

Third, voting for anyone except whoever because......This is the most dangerous, and I think the most probable this time around. By slitting up the vote between the marginalized parties - Green etc. we end up with the scenario in number two above. Go ahead waste the vote and get another minority in power. And another election soon afterwards.

I will be voting conservative, not because I trust Stephen Harper at all, but because I trust the Lieberals (sp intended) even less. I have never believed in their policies, and they have been proven to lie far too often. Or should I say, had a change of heart after they get elected and fail to deliver on their promised lies.




posted on Nov, 30 2005 @ 09:02 AM
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I'm undecided right now on who will get my vote but I can say for sure it won't be the PC candidate. No way never.
I think it will most likely be NDP for me.
(I'm in St. John's, Newfoundland...I voted NDP last election too)



posted on Nov, 30 2005 @ 09:39 AM
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Originally posted by Cynic
First, not voting is just plain stupid. I don't care where you live, but apathy is simply not a choice. (Although you wouldn't know it from past election results.) If you don't vote, you surrender the right to complain later on. And I suspect that more than a few non-voters have been pressing the governments on hot button issues.


Democracy doesn't work like that. You don't give up your voice just because you choose not to vote, you just choose not to excersize you rights and choosing that rout is not giving up your voice. If that were the case Miller wouldn't have even said anything about the continuing bloodbath plauging the streets of Toronto right now as most of those people bitching didn't vote for him(or at all as Municipals always have the lowest turnout)

It's the Federal election which I'm considering not voting for as I'm severely disillusioned with Federalism in general, I do have high hopes for Municipal politics though with Mayor Miller in office.



Second, protest voting; as what happened in Ontario when Bob Rae snuck in through the back-door - is ludicrous. We are still paying for that blunder!! Thank the teachers and nurses, who got screwed afterwards by Bob and his bunch, for splitting the vote. Although Peterson deserved it, he still gets his pension. Good work!


Yeah I've heard this argument as well but it wasn't Ray that the teachers in the 90s were pissed about it was Harris and company(who are also the reason I will never vote for a conservative candidate ever again) Also the Toronto Teachers Pension Plan holding corporation is one of the richest in the country, boohoo they had to deal with a few Ray Days to save money during a recession.



This is the most dangerous, and I think the most probable this time around. By slitting up the vote between the marginalized parties - Green etc. we end up with the scenario in number two above. Go ahead waste the vote and get another minority in power. And another election soon afterwards.


Dangerous? The Greens got half a million votes last election and didn't get 1 seat. You want to get rid of my disillusionment join the Propotional Representation camp that will give parties like the Greens a proportional amount of seats relative to the % of votes they get.



I will be voting conservative, not because I trust Stephen Harper at all, but because I trust the Lieberals (sp intended) even less. I have never believed in their policies, and they have been proven to lie far too often. Or should I say, had a change of heart after they get elected and fail to deliver on their promised lies.


Why? Bullrony ring a bell? Lets break it down.

Liberal misteps

1. Gun Legislation - 2-3 Billion wasted
2. Quebec Ad Scandle - 50 - 100 Million

Conservative Misteps

1. NAFTA - 5 Billion on Softwood lumber alone, Canadian owned business of yesteryear are no longer owned by Canadian families but by multinational corps(based in the USA)

2. GST - I don't even know how much that has costed Canadians but it is definately over 10 Billions(but the Liberals won't get rid of it either so that's a knock against them as well just a much lesser knock as they didnt' invent it)

As for the comment about the Conservatives giving you your money back ROFLMAO.


[edit on 30-11-2005 by sardion2000]



posted on Nov, 30 2005 @ 01:02 PM
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Originally posted by sardion2000

Dangerous? The Greens got half a million votes last election and didn't get 1 seat. You want to get rid of my disillusionment join the Propotional Representation camp that will give parties like the Greens a proportional amount of seats relative to the % of votes they get.

You miss the point entirely. Why waste votes on parties that have no chance of doing anything. By marginalising it allows someone else to get in that perhaps may not have otherwise.


I never said I voted for the leader did I? I vote for the MP I believe will do the best job. We inherited the party system you know. Maybe someday this will change for the better.


Liberal misteps

1. Gun Legislation - 2-3 Billion wasted
2. Quebec Ad Scandle - 50 - 100 Million


No argument. But you forgot Trudeau and his useless wage and price controls. The anti inflation board was a really useful bunch. NOT




Conservative Misteps

1. NAFTA - 5 Billion on Softwood lumber alone, Canadian owned business of yesteryear are no longer owned by Canadian families but by multinational corps(based in the USA)


So? It would have been a different story if the $C had been allowed to float.


2. GST - I don't even know how much that has costed Canadians but it is definately over 10 Billions(but the Liberals won't get rid of it either so that's a knock against them as well just a much lesser knock as they didnt' invent it)


I hate that tax too. But when all the smokers quit, and the drinkers go dry, we gotta get it from somewhere. LOL


As for the comment about the Conservatives giving you your money back ROFLMAO.


I never said that. Where did you infer I did? You could ask Martin if the Lieberals have more questionable $'s to return. That is if he is on Sussex Dr. after January 23....





[edit on 30-11-2005 by parrhesia]

[edit on 30-11-2005 by parrhesia]



posted on Nov, 30 2005 @ 01:18 PM
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Originally posted by Cynic
You miss the point entirely. Why waste votes on parties that have no chance of doing anything. By marginalising it allows someone else to get in that perhaps may not have otherwise.

The only way any smaller party will have a chance of doing something is if people stop saying that voting for them is a waste.

It only took the Reform Party of Canada 15 years from their creation to basically take over the Conservative Party of Canada. Three federal elections and they are now the Official Opposition of Canada.



posted on Nov, 30 2005 @ 02:15 PM
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I never said that. Where did you infer I did?


You didn't I was refering to another post that I didn't press the quote button on sorry.

Yarcofin said that a vote for the cons was a vote for his pocket book and I just laughed at that I should have been clearer.

As for voting for the MP that is a very interesting way of putting it, but really how much power does each individual MP have anyway? If Free Votes were manditory all the time it would be a good policy but with the current system .... I dunno.

The best remedy I would have to fix the federal system would be to enact a Proportional Representational system(as I said before) I would consider voting for a party that made that their platform (I believe it's part of the Green platform but we all know how much that is worth) and since the campaign has just got started I'll have to wait and see and continue to consider all my options wether it's voting Green/NDP or not at all.

[edit on 30-11-2005 by sardion2000]



posted on Nov, 30 2005 @ 05:05 PM
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As for voting for the MP that is a very interesting way of putting it, but really how much power does each individual MP have anyway? If Free Votes were manditory all the time it would be a good policy but with the current system .... I dunno.

In all the years I have voted, I have always voted for the local candidate, not the clowns that lead the party. If we could convince the rest of Canada to elect business people instead of Bay Street lawyers, the country would be better served I think. They spend too much time holding onto power, rather than dealing with the real world stuff. More's the pity.

The best remedy I would have to fix the federal system would be to enact a Proportional Representational system(as I said before) I would consider voting for a party that made that their platform (I believe it's part of the Green platform but we all know how much that is worth) and since the campaign has just got started I'll have to wait and see and continue to consider all my options wether it's voting Green/NDP or not at all.

I guess it's my turn for the apology; I must have missed the foregoing comments in your previous posts. The fact of the matter is that I have precious little use for any of the parties, federal or provincial and they really piss me off by promising things they never intend to deliver. In the real business world, this is tantamount to fraud and would be dealt with rather severely. As always - they get the goldmine, we get the shaft.

[edit on 30-11-2005 by sardion2000]



posted on Nov, 30 2005 @ 06:12 PM
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Cynic and Sardion... good debate, well thought and well fought.

Last night I was out with a buddy of mine watching the Sens kick some more ass, and I stepped out into the cold for a smoke. Outside, two gentlemen were having a fairly lively debate about the current political system facing our country.

Both of them are planning on voting for Conservative candidates in the upcoming election. Being a staunch anti-conservative I listened to their reasoning. The first guy who was 35 had a different set of reasons for voting conservative, and has been voting for them since he was 18. The other younger guy, 26, has been a Liberal supporter for years. His reasoning with wanting to turf the Liberals was because he couldn't trust them anymore. And that is the issue, I'm guessing, in which all the campaigning will be focussed. It will be one big smear-the-PM campaign, and all sides will use these tactics without fail.

I think it is all a moot point anyway, because who ever is going to get in will most likely be heading a minority government anyways. Chances are we will be going back to the polls again very soon after this election.

My buddy made a good point though - he said maybe the conservatives should have a go at running the country again. If we don't like it we will kick them to the curb in a few years. I do agree with that, and I don't. They could do a lot of damage in four years.

I too, wish that there was a proportional representation structure here in Canada, I think the greens deserve to have a few people in parliament. I think the Bloc should be getting a lot less power then what they have now - and certainly after this election they will have even more seats. I think that the seperation issue will become a major situation after the dust settles on this upcoming election. I don't think that Harper has the capacity to effectively handle the "Quebec situation".

Anyways, the winds of change are blowing and this will be a very crucial election given the current state of affairs not only here domestically, but abroad as well.



posted on Nov, 30 2005 @ 06:23 PM
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I don't think that Harper has the capacity to effectively handle the "Quebec situation".


lol that's putting it diplomatically to say the least. If he were to somehow fluke his way into a Majority like a conservative did in the past he would probably help to tear this country apart as he is Western-Centric in his approach which WOULD alienate Quebec and piss us Ontarians off to no end.



posted on Nov, 30 2005 @ 06:34 PM
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Originally posted by sardion2000


I don't think that Harper has the capacity to effectively handle the "Quebec situation".


lol that's putting it diplomatically to say the least. If he were to somehow fluke his way into a Majority like a conservative did in the past he would probably help to tear this country apart as he is Western-Centric in his approach which WOULD alienate Quebec and piss us Ontarians off to no end.



There used to be commercial on television for Red Rose Tea. Someone would try it for the first time and say: "Only in Canada you say? What a pity...."

You must be asking "WTF does this have to do with politics?" Well, only in Canada would we pay someone to sabotage the future of our great country. The Bloc are nothing but opportunists intent on the demise of our nation. They can't wait to have another nausemdum er referendum and will keep picking at it like buzzards on roadkill.

They all qualify for a generous pension, and if they do succeed in putting a wall around themselves after they go their separatist way, will we still be obligated to pay them? You can bet that they will be waiting at the border for the Canada Post truck to arrive.

Only in Canada? Yup.



posted on Dec, 4 2005 @ 10:54 AM
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OK, various and sundry...


Originally posted by Yarcofin
Now that I'm finally 18, I don't know HOW I'll vote.


I hear ya. Democracy nowadays is complicated in that it's choosing the lesser evil, not the greater good. Especially in the fragmented Parliament we have... makes one long for the days where it was just the Libs, the Tories and the NDP...


Originally posted by johnskyOh, hey, greetings to fellow Ottawa citizens, and Canadians. Keep your fingers crossed OCTranspo doesnt strike Ottawa.


Hey there fellow Ottawan! OC Transpo reached a deal, thank god. I won't have to walk the 45 minutes to work in minus 10...


I really dont know who I want in power any more. I mean, every party that I've felt had the balls to get things done, has ended up disappointing me in one way or another.

That's probably why we have a string a minority governments... in the last 15 years, people have become disgruntled with the parties that used to be "national" (the former Progressive Conservatives in the West, and the Liberals in Quebec) that since 2004, the transition to a Parliament of regions has been completed. The Conservatives have the West, the Liberals have Ontario and parts of the Maritimes, the Bloc has Quebec... hence, making any majority government close to impossible.

I don't know how the country will extirpate itself from that one. In its efforts to become truly "national", the new Conservative party under Harper presents two faces to the world: in the West, that of the Reform Party and its social conservative platform; in Quebec and parts of Ontario, that of the old Progressive Conservative tradition. I've been to a conference where I heard Josée Verner, the party's Quebec wing leader, tell the audience that French Canadians should vote for the Conservatives because Mulroney was the one who did the most for them! Not that I'm arguing, but I have to wonder if a party which claims filiation both from Mulroney and Manning can stand without splitting yet again along regional and ideological lines...

As for the Liberals, they're condemned to govern the country with about 80 seats in Ontario, 15 in Quebec, 20 in the Maritimes and 10 in the West... with the NDP holding the balance of power.



posted on Dec, 27 2005 @ 04:59 PM
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Jack Layton has said that if the NDP gets enough seats they will push for proportional representation.



In an interview with The Canadian Press, Layton's eyes shone at the prospect of moving the country towards a voting system of proportional representation. That was key party issue in the 2004 campaign, but was pushed aside when the NDP came up two seats short of holding a real balance of power in the last Parliament.

"I don't want to be two votes short," again, Layton said recently.

"I want us to have the ability to achieve what we came here to do. . .and proportional representation will be a big part of any discussion."

Layton supports changing voting system

If more NDP MP's means a possibility of not using first past the post, I will have to get over my dislike of them and consider giving them my vote. Personally, I prefer a single transferable vote system but I think proportional representation would be better than what we use now.



posted on Dec, 28 2005 @ 06:00 PM
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If more NDP MP's means a possibility of not using first past the post, I will have to get over my dislike of them and consider giving them my vote. Personally, I prefer a single transferable vote system but I think proportional representation would be better than what we use now.




Have you got rocks in your head, or do you not understand the NDP's priorities???

Those idiots got elected in Ontario a few years back via a "protest vote" and single-handedly stalled our Provinces' economy for at least 10 years. I can only imagine the disaster which would follow for the entire country should they squeak to power. Forget the prosperity initiatives both the LIEberals and Conservatives have developed and/or implemented.

Power to the people. I shudder to think how bad things would get;

Just the facts man, just the facts.



posted on Dec, 28 2005 @ 06:29 PM
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Originally posted by Cynic
Have you got rocks in your head, or do you not understand the NDP's priorities???

No, I do not have rocks in my head. And PS, you're ruining our reputation for being nice, friendly, polite people.

I just came out of 12 years of NDP provincially. I know what they are like in power.

My choices are:
Liberals - maybe, if I can't find anyone else to vote for. The gun ban irritates me though.
Conservatives - nope sorry. It's the same sex marriage thing. I can't support taking away rights.
Greens - well they could use the $1.45 per vote
NDP - if you had any clue about my beliefs you would know that this would be like cutting my own wrists. BUT, the voting system needs changing and they may be the ones who can do it. And they can't screw up the entire country too badly with a short-lived minority govt.
Spoiled ballot - tempting, very tempting

NDP in minority isn't that bad, you know. It's how we got universal healthcare.



posted on Dec, 28 2005 @ 06:37 PM
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The NDP...

Originally posted by Cynic

single-handedly stalled our Provinces' economy for at least 10 years.


...and that's the truth. Being personally affected by Maurice "Pooh Bear" Strong in his handling of Ontario Hydro, I can vouch for the mishandling.

I remember what Maurice said (like it was yesterday) as he put the boots to over 30% of the jobs there, basically making that great organization sing tenor ever since..."The only way to fix it is to break it."

I've never seen a party run to the Bay Street boys so fast in all my life, all wild eyed and asking; "What do we do? Tell us, please, what are we supposed to do? We didn't think we were gonna win!!!"

Edit to add...I'm still voting green...in fact, almost everyone I know say they're voting green. Go Jim!!! (no relation to the 'other Harris')

[edit on 28-12-2005 by masqua]



posted on Dec, 28 2005 @ 08:01 PM
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Clarification:

If there were any chance in hell of the NDP forming a majority government, I would not vote for them. Since that is never going to happen, I'm not overly concerned.

No matter what happens, I'm not going to like it. If the Libs and Bloc have enough seats, handguns will be banned. If the Conservatives have enough members to stop that, same-sex marriage will be re-opened and we will be in discussions with the US for our new Missile Defense system.

If I had to slap a political label on myself, it would probably be a traditional Red Tory. Sadly, that party got taken over by a bunch of zealots who want to dictate how others lead their lives. The Conservative Party of Canada left me, I didn't leave them.

Edited to add this for those who don't remember what the Conservatives used to be:



I believe that faith in the public good will lead to the public good. I believe that the invisible hand of the market is important, but it must be steadied by the hand of public responsibility. I believe that a conscious and direct consideration of an individual's free-market activity should be the public good, and government involvement is an integral part of this.

I believe that the greatest financial gains in the world do not make a society better if they are accrued through environmental destruction, creating an underclass of the working poor, or the starvation of key public goods. The free market has shown itself to be a poor provider of universal education, health care, a clean environment and public infrastructure, such as water systems, which exist for the benefit of all and which, ultimately, make us more economically competitive.

I respect the marketplace, but I do not worship it as the solution to all problems. As part of this, I oppose flat taxes, the privatization of core services and the far-right dogma of massive tax cuts trumping all other policy considerations -- a dogma which unite-the-righters such as Mike Harris and Preston Manning have already espoused as a main policy of the new party.

I embrace multiculturalism and biculturalism as important Canadian values. In a world bled by intolerance, these values make Canada "a light unto the nations." If these are important, then government involvement in their promotion is not a waste, but a virtue.

The Red Tory's Creed



[edit on 28-12-2005 by Duzey]



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