Believe it or Not, It is What Has Been Done

Originally posted by siriuslyone

Originally posted by Earth Angel
It can't be the same beings then otherwise you'd no what i meant. How can beings that want to help us asscend physically harm you? I just need to understand that. Is it to prove they are real maybe?

NO, it is obviouly NOT the same beings.
I am not being hurt at all!!!!!!
They do not have to prove to me that are real.

Obviously you are being hurt the evidance is in your photo you posted. I just feel beings who have knowledge of assention would be far too advanced to do something that causes irritation. Ascended beings can walk on water, they can hover in the clouds, they can turn water into wine so this does not make sence! I think you are having your leg pulled here!

May be I am being ignorant, I don't no it just doesn't add up sorry!

[edit on 05012005 by Earth Angel]

[[[Obviously you are being hurt the evidance is in your photo you posted. I just feel beings who have knowledge of assention would be far too advanced to do something that causes irritation. Ascended beings can walk on water, they can hover in the clouds, they can turn water into wine so this does not make sence! I think you are having your leg pulled here!

May be I am being ignorant, I don't no it just doesn't add up sorry![[[

Thank you for your opinion, but we each have our own crosses to bear, and choose to bear..

Angel;

You have posted this post in the past, same one and it does not APPLY to me..Thank you anyway...

Originally posted by siriuslyone
[[[Obviously you are being hurt the evidance is in your photo you posted. I just feel beings who have knowledge of assention would be far too advanced to do something that causes irritation. Ascended beings can walk on water, they can hover in the clouds, they can turn water into wine so this does not make sence! I think you are having your leg pulled here!

May be I am being ignorant, I don't no it just doesn't add up sorry![[[

Thank you for your opinion, but we each have our own crosses to bear, and choose to bear..

Thats fair enough but it hopefully offers food 4 thought so to speak.
Yes my last post was not aimed at you! I have to say my piece as this person was very rude and above himself! He had upset you as well and it isn't on. I am not going to just take it lightly when someones ego is bigger than their....i better stop myself LOL sorry!

Originally posted by Earth Angel

We can not control this shift of light.

What's the shift of light?

You can shrug it off as wishful thinking but some of us have seen unexplainable lights of an angelic nature as predicted in the bible relating to the coming of our next ascended teacher!

You just contradicted yourself. First you said they are "unexplainable" then you went on to explain them, their nature, and what they have to do with. Of course, this begs the question, how do you know that these lights have anything to do with what you said? What if they are something else entirely?

I have been given another sign being guided by a spirit child to notice a UFO outside up the street I was made to feel the presance of the ascended teacher all over earth.

I see, so this teacher and his UFO's don't respect free will. You were MADE to feel his presense, that means he's imposing his will on us, he is here to dominate and control us and MAKE us feel/think what he wants us to feel and think. Well, that's always good to know. Always important to know who is here for what intention, so as not to be fooled, and a violation of free will is a clear indication of intention.

We nor the greys or any other race can do anything but by being on guard (made aware) you won't get caught by surprise.

Of course, but being aware and being delusional are not one and the same. So the question is, are you aware, do you KNOW what you claim to know, or is it just another belief, just wishful thinking?

Who says that this guy is "ascended", and who says he is allowed to teach anyone, who asked for his services?

[edit on 24-11-2005 by lilblam]

There is the LIGHT you CAN PHYSICALLY SEE as in a light display that is not of a human nature then there is the divine light the universe is made up of. Thats is the differance. Nobody has IMPOSED on us because millions of people through prayer and positive thinking have been asking a higher spiritual force to intervene and help humanity. This power of thinking positivly has been proven scientifically by a man called Marcel Vogel.

It isn't that the teacher does not respect free will as it IS MY WILL amoungst millions of other people! Our WILL is being acknowledged. When you have seen the angelic lights yourself as well as many other witnesses where you live which is what has happend on several occasions where I live...you will KNOW aswell! If someone wants to communicate to you but they can't speak to you face to face and they can't speak to you via channeling then the next best thing is to communicate by making you feel. Why should they be ignored? Why would they not communicate and just go ahead and do what they are going to do? That would be far more imposing if there was no given explination to what was happening, then it will feel as if we were being taken over but by approching us an explaining what is happening it is less threatining that way.

If we went to Africa and just started shoving needles into people with no explination they would feel threatened and inposed on and like they have no choice. If we say hey we have medicine and we are coming to help you if you want it, you now were here for you! Then it will be much more acceptable. It is the same principel! No=one will do anything millions of people don't want but as most of us want help it is starting to materialize. Why do you think the statues cried tears of milk a few years ago and although it isn't in the media any more continue to do so.


So If i am delusional so are many thousands of others thats all i can say!

The shift of light is coming waking up to the rest of our DNA that allows sensitive perception and communication with other beings and worlds. The shift of light is a spiritual positive energy touching many souls. It is the very power of positivity form heaven or the spirit world of which jesus and Mary are asceneded beings, some people think they are Aliens, some people think they didn't exsist. The many thousands of people who have had near death experiances know this LIGHT exsists. People who have OBE's no this LIGHT exsists mediums no this light exsists and they use it to communicate.

I apologise if i appeared to be contradicitng myself, i hope I have explained myself better this time X

[edit on 05012005 by Earth Angel]

...I really need to find a better way to get to sleep at night... I do this to relax and now I just find myself getting angry (mostly heheh) and sometimes, at times like this.. I find myself getting very scarred.

Just a word or two.. I just wanted to say.. that I am utterly amazed by the level of patience some of you show. Actually.. I don't know if its patience or boredum or what.. but.. really.. I mean.. I THOUGHT I was a patient individual, but to read comments like..

"I am not a NUT..It is very close to my veins...May I just cut my wrists open, would that be good??"

.. and then to proceed to humor the individual that wrote it. Man, I just don't know if its genious or like... 10 years of talk and reality shows taking its grip on the mind of the western civilisation.. I'm hoping the former, but I've come to realise over the years that I'm an idealistic fool and that the truth is quite often scarrier then even I can come up with.


So now I'm just confused, because I don't know exactly what I'm reading here. It LOOKS like preformance art in a message board forum to me, taking trolling to its new heights as 'art' or something. Or perhaps troll feeding as an art form ... I just don't know what to believe!


- VMX

So If i am delusional so are many thousands of others thats all i can say!

Like that is just WAY to funny to have been written seriously. Are you serious? I'm not kidding here.. I'm confused.. you got me.. I truely do not understand what I've just been exposed to.

Originally posted by Earth Angel
There is the LIGHT you CAN PHYSICALLY SEE as in a light display that is not of a human nature then there is the divine light the universe is made up of.

What if the universe is made up of something else entirely? Who says it's made up of "divine light" or divine anything for that matter?

Thats is the differance. Nobody has IMPOSED on us because millions of people through prayer and positive thinking have been asking a higher spiritual force to intervene and help humanity.

So what? Millions of people prayed during and before WWII as well to prevent it from happening, but it did. Millions of people pray all the time asking for "free lunch" and "something for nothing". Why don't those millions of people DO something about their situation instead of just pray and hope some higher force takes care of all their problems? That would teach humanity nothing, we'd still be unable to manage our own existance and civilization, we'd just learn to depend on some higher power to fix everything whenever we screw it up, to save us from ourselves. So it seems very unwise to interfere and save humanity from anything they themselves brought upon themselves. Not only would we learn nothing, we'd be even more powerless and more easily deceived and controlled, since we'd learn that we don't have to actually think for ourselves or DO anything at all, just pray and let someone else take care of us.

This power of thinking positivly has been proven scientifically by a man called Marcel Vogel.

It isn't that the teacher does not respect free will as it IS MY WILL amoungst millions of other people!

No, it is your WISH, your DESIRE, your WANT. Your will is actualized in your actions, but what you're doing is asking a savior to come and make your life better, because you and millions of others choose to DO nothing. Do you know what happens when a child is always protected by his parents, when a child is not allowed to come to harm and is pampered? That child often has serious problems adapting to real life later on, learning to take care of himself and be able to function in this world without being taken care of by someone else.

People can think positively all they want, but nothing will change until they DO something about their condition instead of just sitting there and hoping someone else comes in and does it for them. People have been thinking positively for millenia, it has never changed a thing about this world. Positive thinking may have an effect, but that effect apparently does not actually help change our reality, only disguse it as someting else.

Our WILL is being acknowledged. When you have seen the angelic lights yourself as well as many other witnesses where you live which is what has happend on several occasions where I live...you will KNOW aswell!

Who says those lights are "angelic"? What if they are something else entirely?

If someone wants to communicate to you but they can't speak to you face to face and they can't speak to you via channeling then the next best thing is to communicate by making you feel.

Not if they wish to respect your free will they won't. They can't WANT to communicate with anyone unless they are self-serving beings, because want is a selfish concept, it does not exist for beings who serve others. Second of all, feelings are deceptive, any being can make you feel in any way, feelings do not amount to objective understanding of who you're communicating with and what the nature or purpose of that communication is - but feelings can certainly make you BELIEVE something, and that is the entire point.. As such, it is only a manipulation of you and your thoughts, just a control mechanism. Beings who serve others do not make anyone feel in any way, they do not even initiate communication without the other being initiating it themselves (like attempting to channel, etc). Second, feelings can be induced in any number of means and do not actually TELL you anything, they do not help you learn anything except that something somewhere (inside or outside of you) is making you feel a certain way. This doesn't help you to know who or what and why, and only violates your free will, not much more.

Why should they be ignored? Why would they not communicate and just go ahead and do what they are going to do?

Why should they be answered, why should anyone do anything? Why do we presume that we don't have to fix our own problems and learn to deal with life, and why do we assume that someone is supposed to take care of us and prevent us from coming to harm, prevent us from making mistakes and learning from them? That wouldn't help us, would it? We're not helpless children unless we act like helpless children, but that is only our choice, it is not the universe's responsibility to pamper us and prevent us from coming to harm and/or dying.

That would be far more imposing if there was no given explination to what was happening, then it will feel as if we were being taken over but by approching us an explaining what is happening it is less threatining that way.

Yes but they can be lying to us, it could be just another deception, just another way to control us by making the gullible believe the lie. The problem is, if we wish to understand what is happening, we cannot rely on someone to come in and just tell us and assume it is the truth. We have to figure it out ourselves, this is why we have brains, this is why we have the capacity to think, learn, investigate, experiment, and grow. Every now and then we mess up, and that's ok. Sometimes we mess up really big, and that's ok too. It's not imposing to not give an explanation for what is happening - it would be imposing to not allow us to figure it out ourselves, to prevent us from learning and growing by coming in and explaining everything to us. That and, we'd have no way of knowing whether their explanation is accurate or true in any way.

If we went to Africa and just started shoving needles into people with no explination they would feel threatened and inposed on and like they have no choice. If we say hey we have medicine and we are coming to help you if you want it, you now were here for you! Then it will be much more acceptable. It is the same principel! No=one will do anything millions of people don't want but as most of us want help it is starting to materialize.

If most of us actually DID something about the problem, there'd also be no need for help. So as I understand of your use of this analogy, this is their idea of a "cosmic cure" in a certain sense that they are offering to us if we want it? Well another problem here is, people have a tendency to want to do nothing and get everything if they could - it is human nature. Does it mean that those beings should oblige to our inherently selfish and lazy human nature and simply give us what we want just because we want it but don't feel like figuring out how to acquire it ourselves? Most people want something for nothing, they want wisdom and knowledge without effort of critical thought, research, and experience; they want money without working; they want pleasure without sacrifice or effort; basically they just WANT.

But just because someone wants something, doesn't mean someone else should give it to them. Many times that would only spoil the person and make them even more selfish and more reliant on others to sustain their existance.

Why do you think the statues cried tears of milk a few years ago and although it isn't in the media any more continue to do so.

There can be many reasons for that. My hypothesis is that it was a deception/manipulation on the part of some higher forces to prompt people into emotional worship frenzies. Because that is all the effect it had, people did not start dealing with the issues facing humanity any more than they ever have, they just came in droves to touch the statue and pray some more, and became even stronger believers as a result. And it is humanity's tendency to believe what they wanna believe instead of seek truth that lies at the heart of all our problems today. Without this tendency, governments could never deceive populations and lead them into wars of conquest under guise of deception. So the statues only promoted further ignorance and belief, promoted emotions and prayer instead of rational critical thinking and DOING something, promoted powerlessness instead of the power of ACTION and power to figure things out ourselves.

So If i am delusional so are many thousands of others thats all i can say!

Well you probably know that millions of believers does not make something true.

The shift of light is coming waking up to the rest of our DNA that allows sensitive perception and communication with other beings and worlds.

That's one possibility. Another possibility is that it will only change the DNA and level of awareness of SOME people, while everyone else remains unchanged. Nothing in nature happens for no reason.

The shift of light is a spiritual positive energy touching many souls. It is the very power of positivity form heaven or the spirit world

Just don't forget that many people are very positive about killing and manipulating others, they think it is a great thing and some people need to be killed so that others can live. The Nazis were very happy to exterminate other populations for their own benefit, it was seen as a positive development. So the point is not to judge something as positive and something as negative, but to see if there is any objective reality to either one of these words, and if there is, what it is. Because until one is able to SEE this, it is merely an illusion, just as it is for most people who call everything that they LIKE "positive", and anything that upsets them as "negative". And of course we know that many people have different likes and dislikes, many of them being entirely contradictory.

So then when applying this understanding to thinking, what you call "positive thinking" can in fact be anything but! Calling something positive does not make it so. Yet unless you understand objective reality instead of creating subjective judgements and trying to make reality conform to them, you will remain unable to escape the global illusion pulled over our eyes by the "powers that be".

Using "positive" and "negative" like "good" and "bad" is subjective, and as such, an illusion. Everyone has their own version of what is positive and what is negative. For example, our government thinks war is positive, invasion and takeover of other nations for personal profit is positive, deceiving entire populations is positive. Many would disagree. However, I neither agree nor disgree - I don't judge it as negative or positive, I simply look at what it IS objectively, what the souce of it is, and what the effects of it are. Then all I decide is whether it is something I wish to contribute to or not. Just becasue something is painful or deceptive does not make it bad or negative, unless you choose to view it as such. For example, in the animal world animals always disguse themselves and camouflage themselves (deception) in order to trap/kill/eat other animals (pain/death). It is not a negative thing, it is what makes the world tick.

Likewise, humans constantly manipulate one another, fight, kill, wage wars for profit and greed, etc. It is not negative or positive, it is simply human nature, it is what humans have always done. But it doesn't make us evil, bad, or negative. It does make us selfish, however. That is objective, and that is at the root of most things we do on this planet. You can define selfishness as negativity, and selflessness as positivity if you wish, that is one way to look at it, and it would at least be an objective definition not a subjective one. If someone is smiling and laughing while they deceive you or stab you in the heart, does it make them a positive person because they do it happily? Light or no light, it is really our actions that define who we are, and often our "inaction" as well.

[edit on 1-12-2005 by lilblam]

intersting you say the statue senario is to do with a higher source. So does this mean you belive in the posibility there is one? You are very sceptical.
The lights have formed shapes such as 3ft feathers. Feathers are known to be a symbol of the angels. If we are being desieved which is a possibility then who is decie3ving us?

We aren't alone no matter what they want or don't want but i tell you how you know. Your intuition is linked to your soul, your soul knows the truth as it has had many experiances and it knows the god source only here we forget so much of that knowledge. I have scientific knowledge i certainly did not learn from school or watching tv. Watching one documentory about a fluid used in a submarine which caused an explostion. They were investigating what went wrong and what would be the alternative solution etc. I told my husband the answer before the programe concluded. It was a subject I know nothing about, I amased myself because that knowledge was stored in my subconcious and it didn't come from this life! I belive it was an imprint of a previous exststance left in my subconcious. The soul carries kowledge from experiance to experiance. When i listen to my intuition i have never been wrong once! What ever I am not afraid what ever will be will be. People are doing things, people are changing things people are taking responsibility for things ourselves, work goes on every day. The live aid concert, banning third country debts, getting vacinations and food to those who need it. Okay it's not enough but people are doing something. Look at the tsumani, the whole world pulled together! Some people sit around praying and not doing but several experiments conducted have proven that prayer does make a differance. I remember an experiment where they got several people from different religious backgrounds to pray all at the same time for a sick person, and they got just one small comunicty to pray for a different person and the first person recovered quicker. These experiments where repeated time and time again and the person with several communities around the globe recovered quicker every time! Like i say it has been scientificly proven you can't get any solid evidance than that.

You are being wise in your analysis and it is good to be sceptical. But i will stick with what I feel from my intuition and you can beg to differ so we will have to agree to disagree

Originally posted by Earth Angel
intersting you say the statue senario is to do with a higher source. So does this mean you belive in the posibility there is one?

I consider all possibilities, and I know there are many so-called "higher sources". But the devil, as always, is in the details. Just because something is non-human does not mean it is automatically altruistic, and cannot be just the opposite. You know that old adage, "as above, so below"?

You are very sceptical.
The lights have formed shapes such as 3ft feathers. Feathers are known to be a symbol of the angels. If we are being desieved which is a possibility then who is decie3ving us?

That's a good question - but that comes only after you can answer the question that precedes it - are you being deceived or not? If you can find enough evidence to adequately answer that, then you can move on to "who is deceiving us?". Because obiously if you are NOT being deceived, then that second question is irrelevant - but if you ARE, then it seems that it would be wise to find out who and why, or so I think. We know that deception is the "name of the game" on this planet, people lie/manipulate/control one another all the time for every reason imaginable. Sadly many people (especially those in the New Age community) just assume that this dynamic of lies and control stops at the human level, and that above that everything is all honesty and "love and light", end of story. And of course, when you make any assumption, you simply deny the possibility that something else could possibly be true, and refuse to question it. And if one just takes something as a "given" without questioning it, one cannot know the reality of this thing until the question is finally ASKED and the answer sought.

And since you say that feathers are known to be symbols of the angels, IF that is true, wouldn't it then be the perfect symbol to use if you were going to create an effective manipulation through deception? And IF those feathers were not a deception, how could you know this? How could you tell the difference between feathery-lights that come from real "angels" (again, assuming angels even exist or use lights and that it wasn't always a deception in the first place), and those that come from a deceptive source? My point is you wouldn't know - you have no way of knowing unless you just decide to assume. And again, you must ask, what is the point of the lights in the first place? They don't tell you anything at all - since you have no way of knowing the source. The only thing they would tell you is that someone, somewhere, for some unknown reason, is creating a light for you to see. IF you are a person that has a tendency to assume that the origin of the lights is angelic, then you are also the perfect person to be manipulated by this technique by beings with the desire to do so. And if you do not have a tendency to make any assumptions about the nature or origin of such lights, then it would seem that it would be pointless for the real angels AND the "manipulators" to use these lights at all for any reason, since they do not help you or anyone else in any way.

So if the lights are used, the only effect they can possibly have is negative - they do not actually inform anyone of anything (since you have no way of telling who is doing the lights and why), and to those who have a tendency to make assumptions about the nature of those lights, the lights only serve as a confirmation of those assumptions, not because the light is REALLY what they believe it is (again, since you have no actual way of knowing), but because just by seeing it they become even more convinced that their belief is right, regardless of the reality. It would seem that if angels are really here to assist, they would not do things that can be just as easily done by someone else for purposes of deception. And if they do, it would likely be something that can HELP someone, that can help someone learn and grow in some way - because you cannot verify the source, so at least the information that is given could be verified in and of itself for what it is (a light by itself is not helpful in any way though, it can only hurt). For example, leave a hint or clue or sign or information somewhere, not just some light that you can't do anything with. And when it is something a person can check, then it doesn't matter what the source is, what will matter is the info that was given and how it can be applied and how it ends up helping the individual.

As the Bible says, "by their fruits shall you know them". That is indeed true. Ask yourself, what are the "fruits" of such unverifiable "signs", how do they help anyone at all in any objective way?

If a Christian saw a big glowing cross in the sky, it would have the exact same effect - only strengthen his belief, even if that belief is false, and the apparent "signs" are created as deceptions to keep the person under the control of that belief.

When i listen to my intuition i have never been wrong once!

I never said not to listen to your intuition. However, I've found that it's not always obvious what is intuition and what is just an assumption, belief, or wishful thinking. Most assumptions are not consciously made, they are automatic and subconscious until you realise you're making it. Those can very easily be confused with intuition by people, I've seen it happen many times. And when wishful thinking is confused with true intuition, the price is always paid.

What ever I am not afraid what ever will be will be. People are doing things, people are changing things people are taking responsibility for things ourselves, work goes on every day. The live aid concert, banning third country debts, getting vacinations and food to those who need it. Okay it's not enough but people are doing something. Look at the tsumani, the whole world pulled together! Some people sit around praying and not doing but several experiments conducted have proven that prayer does make a differance.

But the question is, just how much "difference" does it make? And is it enough to allow for people to pray instead of getting off the couch and doing something? And again, there may indeed be an effect by praying, but if that effect was truly significant, would it require very specialized "experiments" to try to detect it? I'm just saying that, although praying may truly affect reality, it is very easy to make the mistake of wishfully enlarging that effect into something more than it actually is.

I remember an experiment where they got several people from different religious backgrounds to pray all at the same time for a sick person, and they got just one small comunicty to pray for a different person and the first person recovered quicker. These experiments where repeated time and time again and the person with several communities around the globe recovered quicker every time! Like i say it has been scientificly proven you can't get any solid evidance than that.

Now try that experiment with wars, with millions that are dying from diseases, with billions who are hungry and/or homeless, with lying psychopaths coming to power in governments all over the world, etc. Again, I'm simply saying that although prayer may certainly have an effect, one must be careful to not pretend that the effect is bigger than it truly is. For thousands of years humanity has had religions and millions upon millions of generally good people around the world have always been praying for humanity's well-being and for such things as "world peace", etc. And judging from history of our race, that prayer simply has never worked - humanity has always suffered from constant wars, hunger, and a constant stream of lies and self-righteous manipulation by groups of psychopaths who wish to rule humanity and think they have the right to do with everyone else as they please.

You are being wise in your analysis and it is good to be sceptical. But i will stick with what I feel from my intuition and you can beg to differ so we will have to agree to disagree

I like to stick to my knowledge that is based on experience, research, and thinking. Although I like intuition, I cannot always know what is intuition and what is wishful thinking, and intuition does not help me KNOW anything, though it does help me make certain decisions that may otherwise have been detrimental to my progress. But I don't use my intuition to try to explain phenomena that I don't understand - I use my head for that.

[edit on 5-12-2005 by lilblam]