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NEWS: Blair Suffers Defeat Over Terror Laws

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posted on Nov, 9 2005 @ 06:49 PM
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About the very first comment about terror strikes in the future going up as a result of this decision? News alert, this is all a plan! This whole effort is nothing more than a Global chess game and we are the pieces. In this case the "Elites" just have to pull back the bishop or knight into safety and regroup............make a new plan. Kind of like when Ashcroft and the rest introduced the Patriot Act 2 and when hassled about it, they just gave it a cleaver more pleasing act like "Victory Act" apparantly thinking that this United States dumbing down campaign has reached it's finality. There will be more terror strikes indeed,........but not because of something like this....it's because it's a plan of the illuminati (as in chess there is always a back-up plan, so look for that in the near future). Most of all of these things that we watch on the news and all of these "upper echelon" types getting leagally fried is nothing more than smoke and mirrors. When there seems to be emphasis on something other than what is really a problem, ignore it and look harder for what is being hidden instead. When they say look this way........look the other way. I suspect that the reasons that they fail sometimes and certain policies don't make it, is so that they can make the people "THINK" that they have a choice and to think that what they say matters.When people think that they are heard and that their votes are being implemented in opposition to the gov't, they tend to be fulfilled, they shut up, and go home smiling as if they really matter. Indeed, you really do matter..........but not to the elites! To them you are worth less than a pawn, the pawn being the least of numerical value on the chessboard, you are less than that to them. So, true enough, there will be more strikes coming in the future, but only because people act on fear and thats how most gov't policies are enacted these days. They create the terrorist strikes, we as a people get scared and look for a saviour...of course "they" come to the rescue as the saviour. (Mobsters, incidently, used this tactic in the 30's).....Offer you protection from an assailant, (they are the mysterious assailants) and if you don't accept the protection, they come in the night and give you a reason for protection, the next day you are visited again........most recieved the protection and payed a healthy paycheck to their new protectors)..........................PROBLEM/REACTION/SOLUTION.
Look in the future, for their second attempt at this policy.If not, something far worse or similar.Of course, some policies are attempted to go through all for the purpose of YOU feeling as if you're being heard.........they weren't meant to actually be implemented at all. (more smoke and mirrors).If, however the people let it through anyway, well they allow it for future use.,.................Notice Blair looks devistated, IT IS A WORLD STAGE AND THEY ARE TAUGHT IN POLITICAL SCHOOLS AND BEHIND THE SCENES HOW TO ACT AND DECIEVE AND THEY ARE BETTER THAN EVEN SOME OF HOLLYWOODS BEST!

[edit on 9-11-2005 by Phenomium]




posted on Nov, 10 2005 @ 03:14 AM
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Originally posted by Daystar
I am very glad these laws have failed.

1: It has denied terrorists a recruiting ground. Imagine you are on the edge of 'society'. Imagine you are held without charge, then quietly release because they have to admit they have nothing on you other than the fact you disagree with the UK Government's ideas. Do you think you will simply just turn around and say "Don't worry guys. No hard feelings about me being locked away for three months for no reason." Anyone who tells me they wouldnt mind is a bloody liar quite frankly. And who do think will be ready to welcome you with open arms should you snap and seek revenge?

So the police arrest someone wrongly and then that person in revenge blows innocent people up.......I don't think so. You have to be really warped to justify that action. Anyway there are people who have spent years in Jail on trumped up charges by police (Guildford 4 for example). They didn't come out and blow up innocent people did they?

Your logic is flawed.

Originally posted by Daystar
2: It has shown Tony Blair he cant get his way all the time anymore. This guy has ignored everyone else's thoughts and opinions in his time in office. His government have ignored massive peace demonstrations, started illegal war, has moved to crush independant and critical media. He denies we are heading toward a police state? How can we trust him after the lies and the spin? And how can we trust these anti terror laws when they are misused like in the example of the elderly Labour Party member who was detained under terrorism legislation for saying "Nonsense" in a speech?

According to the polls, tens of millions of people in this country agreed with the war in Iraq. But they didn't march. They have no need to.

The lies and spin angle is curious. Look back at the language of the opposition leaders during the election and note how it changed after Blair released those papers. Clealry those opposition leaders no longer believed he lied. Howard himself used the expression "Liar Liar Liar" beforehand but never afterwards. This at a time of greatest potential political gain hmmmmm.

Originally posted by Daystar
3: Other members have said it already, but isnt it the case where the Police have to gather evidence before the arrest?

I think you should listen to what the police say. For example with the recent London bombings it took them TWO MONTHS to thoroughly search premises of known bombers! Imagine how long it would take to thoroughly search multiple suspected premises.

They are not arresting people with absolutely no evidence. However, there is a limit to the amount of evidence you can gather without searches. Now you can search illegally whilst the suspect is away (and thus ensure any case is thrown out of court even if they are the biggest maddest bomber in history) or you have legal powers of search. We have to assess how long does a thorough search take ? I would remind you of the 2 months for KNOWN BOMBER! You're not looking for sack full of stolen money but things like chemical traces on clothing or microfibres in carpets etc. Some chemical traces can be found due to normal domestic fluids hence why searches have to be thorough.

What you need to do is assess what time the police need and from an innocent persons point of view some compensation for mistaken arrest. But the assertion that a suicide bomber will leave hard evidence lying around allowing them to be identified and arrested is stupid beyond comprehension.

Originally posted by Daystar
4: I would also like to remind everyone, that the UK would not be a 'target' if Blair wasn't getting us involved with illegal war. Afghanistan, maybe. Iraq however was illegal, and now the UK is seen as a bad guy around the world, just like the US. The British used to enjoy good relations with the Arabic nations. Let's take bets on whether or not we still have such favour.

Oh really! Tell that to the Saudis who have been bombed! Or the Jordanians! You have fallen for the biggest trick in the warmongers book and an islamic Jihad is by definition a war against non believers. The extremists want to wipe westerners and westernised muslims (reminder to the non muslim extremists!) off the face of the planet. One of the ways of winning a war is to "divide and conquer" which you can do by pretending that certain actions provoked your attack. Then you sit back and watch with glee as your enemy fights amongst itself. Then when the time is right and their guard is down you attack again.

The police readily admit that the most successful criminals are the ones who commit a single crime. Repeated crimes leave a trail of evidence. The suicide bomber is clearly commiting a single crime where the "normal" evidence is only there after the bomb has gone off. This makes it exceptionally difficult to detect.

I don't like the police, I know they lie, I've know a few and they are not model citizens! But I do know that the nature of suicide bombers has to change how the police can operate. Exactly what those changes are I'm not yet sure but the status quo, which some people wish to keep, is most certainly a recipe for death of civilians on our streets!



posted on Nov, 10 2005 @ 03:56 AM
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I wish ours in Aus had *sigh*
I'm so jealous!


This is excellent news though




posted on Nov, 10 2005 @ 02:43 PM
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Originally posted by malcr
So the police arrest someone wrongly and then that person in revenge blows innocent people up.......I don't think so. You have to be really warped to justify that action. Anyway there are people who have spent years in Jail on trumped up charges by police (Guildford 4 for example). They didn't come out and blow up innocent people did they?


Well lets take a closer look at that. Firstly, I didnt say it would definately happen. Secondly, Terrorists are trying to recruit people in prison (Police and Home Office know it), be the person innocent of the charges against them or not.

And as for your comment on saying someone has to be warped to justify that level of retalliation, noone is justifying it firstly, and secondly, you have to be warped anyway to bomb civillian targets.



Your logic is flawed.


Everything is flawed




According to the polls, tens of millions of people in this country agreed with the war in Iraq. But they didn't march. They have no need to.


Er....right.....

They wouldn't march if they were happy with the way things were going now would they?

Maybe yes, tens of millions did support the war, but also tens of millions didn't. And you can't just ignore up to 2 million people marching through London demanding that we don't go to war over lies and tampered Intelligence.



The lies and spin angle is curious. Look back at the language of the opposition leaders during the election and note how it changed after Blair released those papers. Clealry those opposition leaders no longer believed he lied. Howard himself used the expression "Liar Liar Liar" beforehand but never afterwards. This at a time of greatest potential political gain hmmmmm.


LOL! Do not assume that because I am opposed to Tony Blair that I am a Tory supporter. The Tories can't be trusted either.



I think you should listen to what the police say. For example with the recent London bombings it took them TWO MONTHS to thoroughly search premises of known bombers! Imagine how long it would take to thoroughly search multiple suspected premises.


Hold on a second there. Why is it we can take on the IRA for decades and not have to resort to calling in drastic laws? Suddenly, Islamic Extremists arrive on the scene, and we're all on lockdown?

And you should have realised by now that you should take everything Sir Ian Blair says with about a ton of salt.



They are not arresting people with absolutely no evidence. However, there is a limit to the amount of evidence you can gather without searches.


Granted, extensive searches take time, but it should be up to the courts to decide if the person requires being held for three months not on the say so of an organisation that is subject to Government agenda and orders.


What you need to do is assess what time the police need and from an innocent persons point of view some compensation for mistaken arrest.


Heh. The Government has a hard enough time dishing out compensation to victims of 7/7. You think they'll give a toss what you think unless you kick up a massive fuss?


But the assertion that a suicide bomber will leave hard evidence lying around allowing them to be identified and arrested is stupid beyond comprehension.


Nobody made that assertion. Not here anyway....



Oh really! Tell that to the Saudis who have been bombed! Or the Jordanians!


Ok, I will just like to say this minute that the Saudis are under attack for different reasons than us. The difference is slight in a way but it is there nonetheless. So please don't lay that card on the table.



You have fallen for the biggest trick in the warmongers book and an islamic Jihad is by definition a war against non believers.


And a Crusade is a Holy War too. Since you seem to have slept through the news when it reported the other side of the coin, I will just remind you that our Prime Minister is the blind and eager to please follower of a man who claims God is telling him to start wars. I havent fallen for anything my friend, it is rather you that have fallen for these things. I am neutral in this as best I can be, and all I see are extremists on both sides colliding together at high speed with us caught in the middle.


The extremists want to wipe westerners and westernised muslims (reminder to the non muslim extremists!) off the face of the planet.


Look around ATS. You will see many Westerners sending the hatred back the other way. It six of one, half dozen of the other.

Below is a link; it was made in light heart, but it shows us that the ignorance and hatred is on both sides.

www.wimp.com...



One of the ways of winning a war is to "divide and conquer" which you can do by pretending that certain actions provoked your attack. Then you sit back and watch with glee as your enemy fights amongst itself. Then when the time is right and their guard is down you attack again.


Thank you for basic tactics 101 there. But you misunderstand; we are just as much victims of western media as we are to pro-islamic propaganda. The Sun, Sky News, Fox.... all as right wing as Al Jazeera (though in its defence Sky News isn't quite as laughable as the others). It isnt just divide and conquer; its a battle by two opposing sides for hearts and minds. The western media uses scare tactics, whereas the other side uses pity and martyrdom.



I don't like the police, I know they lie, I've know a few and they are not model citizens! But I do know that the nature of suicide bombers has to change how the police can operate.


Just a little note on this: what makes you think every terrorist is automatically going to be a suicide bomber? And then what happens if very outspoken critics of the Government get detained? Like I said, we have already had misuse of these anti-terror laws, when the man at the Labour Party conference was detained under those laws for saying "nonsense"! Tell me that doesn't make you cringe!


Exactly what those changes are I'm not yet sure but the status quo, which some people wish to keep, is most certainly a recipe for death of civilians on our streets!


I am glad you saved this little gem for last. This is exactly the kind of scare mongering I refer to. Tell the sheep that if they don't follow orders hurt and suffering will be visited upon them by those evil evil terrorists!



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