The media are minimising US and British war crimes in Iraq

Originally posted by Souljah
Do I really have to Point that out?

Yes please, there are many sides in this war.

Why are you Opposing me in each and every post I take?

I dont dissagree with you in every post you make, there are some things I agree on but mostly I disagree.

Who is CURRENTLY controlling the Middle East?
The CHINESE?
The RUSSIANS?
The North KOREANS?
The Native INDIANS?
The PALESTINIANS?
The IRAQIS?
W H O ? ! ?

Who is controlling it?
Islam is currently controlling it, and doing that they control the world.
How? That is the largest supplier of oil so far, if they wanted complete control they just need to shut off the oil flow and bang the west has no oil.
Defences go down due to lack of fuel.
Countries grind to a standstill.

What Piles? Where? You mean the ones that Fox News found?

I mean the ones that where left behind after GW1 and forgotten about, BTW even you cant deny this.

OH I know - you mean the Piles of Depleted Uranium that US and UK forces have LEFT Behind! Those are the REAL and ONLY one WMD's in Iraq!

You and I both know that those are not the only WMD's in iraq..

But you said it was, and that I should not confuze Iraq with Iran.

No I didnt..

Uh yeah It never was...lol....you might be confusing iran with iraq.

The Only WMD's found in Iraq were those SOLD to him by the WEST.

Doubt that, there over 20 years old....are you telling that chemical and bio weapons last 20 years?

And when Saddam USED them on Iran and on Kurdish People, Mistser Rummy was smiling and shaking Hands with him.

So let me get this straight, you blaming my government for something a previos government done wrong?

Oh wait - Saddam used WP on Kurds also, and at that time US called it "Assualt with Chemical Weapons" - but BEHOLD: When the US Marines use it, its NOT!

I take it you refer to "napalm" as a chemical weapon? If so then care to explain what lead is if it is not a chemical?


Hypocrasy indeed...

Yes I have these smileys too...

Originally posted by Seekerof
Among a host of other nations.
Certainly was not the use of US chemicals agents that Saddam used to kill his own people, Souljah, huh?
Do I need to link that source for you, being I planted it smack in the middle of one of your rhetorical discussions on this matter?

Again I will point out: How Many OTHER Nations are currently Occupying, oops I mean Liberating Iraq? Germany? France? Hmmmm.... When Saddam killed his own People, month after the US still sold hims Chemicals.

What the Secretary General's Report used was a descriptive, not an offical classification, Souljah. Look up the word if your having trouble understanding what it means in relation to how the Secretary General's Report described DU as being. Furthermore, DU is not a classed WMD.

You posted a link to your Thread on the DU Topic - on Page 2 you can find my Post with several Links in it. Try them...

Yeah, please do, cause I was one of them that contested you from point one, and even started my own topic thread on this matter and issue, huh?

YES - thats the Link I was talking about!

Where is the link to the "fact" that we still sold Sadaam weapons a week after he used them on the Kurds. Im pretty sure a scandal like that would have made plenty of headlines. I mean if the whole illegal arms sales in Iraq was big news this would have been huge. So lets see some links on that please.(I'm not doubting your preparedness in anyway, you usually come armed to the teeth with links is all)

Originally posted by ludaChris
Where is the link to the "fact" that we still sold Sadaam weapons a week after he used them on the Kurds. Im pretty sure a scandal like that would have made plenty of headlines. I mean if the whole illegal arms sales in Iraq was big news this would have been huge. So lets see some links on that please.(I'm not doubting your preparedness in anyway, you usually come armed to the teeth with links is all)

Yet again somebody who did not Bother to read what is in this Thread but just to post his opinion. The Answer to your Question is on the Page 6 of this thead, in the Post Number: 1831719 (post id: 1853612)

One batch each of salmonella and E coli were shipped to the Iraqi State Company for Drug Industries on August 31, 1987. Other shipments went from the US to the Iraq Atomic Energy Commission on July 11, 1988; the Department of Biology at the University of Basrah in November 1989; the Department of Microbiology at Baghdad University in June 1985; the Ministry of Health in April 1985 and Officers' City, a military complex in Baghdad, in March and April 1986.

The shipments to Iraq went on even after Saddam Hussein ordered the gassing of the Kurdish town of Halabja, in which at least 5000 men, women and children died. The atrocity, which shocked the world, took place in March 1988, but a month later the components and materials of weapons of mass destruction were continuing to arrive in Baghdad from the US.

Satisfied?

Salmonella and Ecoli can not be considered bio weapons. Those are rooted in contaminated meat. So how is the US still supplying them with weapons after he ordered the gassing, that sounds like its just for research on the effects of both salmonella and echoli, which arent very nice by the way, but they are certainly not bioweapons, they occur naturally in our environment. By the way, what I posted before wasnt an opinion, it was an observation based on how the media has responded to scandals in the past. My opinion is of no ones concern, I try my best to leave that out of a statement unless someone asks or I feel like giving it.

en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

[edit on 11/30/2005 by ludaChris]

[edit on 11/30/2005 by ludaChris]

Originally posted by ludaChris
Salmonella and Ecoli can not be considered bio weapons. Those are rooted in contaminated meat. So how is the US still supplying them with weapons after he ordered the gassing, that sounds like its just for research on the effects of both salmonella and echoli, which arent very nice by the way, but they are certainly not bioweapons, they occur naturally in our environment. By the way, what I posted before wasnt an opinion, it was an observation based on how the media has responded to scandals in the past. My opinion is of no ones concern, I try my best to leave that out of a statement unless someone asks or I feel like giving it.

OK, today Saddam is Classifed as a Madman Dictator, right?
So, in '88 this Madman Dictator GASSED in own People, and months after that, US were STILL supplying this Madman with Chemical and Biological Agents? It does not matter what kind, it matter that they DID AT ALL! It looks Very hypocritical, when you look at it from afar. Saddam also used White Phosporous on Kurds, and it was called "an attack with chemical weapons" - why it was not called whem the US marines used it?

Again, when it Served the Purpose of the US goverment, Saddam was GREAT - but when his "service" was finished, he was removed.

Now enjoy this list:

Foreign Suppliers to Iraq's Biological Weapons Program Obtain Microbial Seed Stock for Standard or Novel Agent Agriculture and Water Resource Department:

• On 3/21/86, the US Department of Commerce issued a license to the American Type Culture Collection (ATCC) to export aspergillus fungal cultures, used in the production of aflatoxin, to Iraq. ATCC officials said the cultures were not delivered.
  
  
• Atomic Energy Commission:
  Between 1985-89, ATCC made 17 shipments of "attenuated strains of various toxins and bacteria" to Iraq’s Atomic Energy Commission.[2]
  
  
• Basra University:
  According to a 1991 US military intelligence memo, Japanese scientists had been assisting scientists from Basra University since 1984 in researching mycotoxins produced by soil fungi, including aflatoxin. The Japanese-Iraqi team used three species of aspergillus mold to produce aflatoxin.
  In 1985, the US Centers for Disease Control (CDC) sent a shipment of West Nile Fever virus to an Iraqi researcher.
  
  
• College of Medicine (Baghdad):
  On 11/30/84, the US Department of Commerce issued a license to ATCC to export aspergillus fungal cultures to Iraq for delivery to the College of Medicine in Baghdad. ATCC officials said the cultures were not delivered.[5]
  State Establishment for Pesticide Production (SEPP):In 1985, the CDC sent three shipments of West Nile Fever virus to Iraq for use in medical research.
  
  
• University of Baghdad:
  Between 1985-1989, the ATCC supplied Iraq with several pathogens, including Clostridium botulinum, and various strains of anthrax.[8]
  
  
• Unspecified Locations:
  Between 1985-89, US firms exported Bacillus anthracis (anthrax), Clostridium botulinum, Histoplasma capsulatam, Brucella melitensis, Clostridium perfringens (gas gangrene), Clostridium tetani (tentanus), Escherichia coli, and "dozens of other pathogenic biological agents," to Iraq.
  
  Between 1985-89, the US firm ATCC sent Iraq up to 70 shipments including 21 strains of anthrax, 15 Class III pathogens, E. coli, Salmonella cholerasuis, Clostridium botulinum, Brucella meliteusis, and Clostidium perfringens. [This may include shipments already listed to the Agriculture and Water Resource Department, Atomic Energy Commission, and College of Medicine].
  
  Between 1984-89, the CDC sent Iraq more than 80 agents, including botulinum toxoid, Yersinia pestis, dengue virus, and West Nile antigen and antibody. [This may include shipments already listed to Basra University, and Salman Pak.]
  
  According to US Senator John McCain, Iraq obtained tularemia virus from the United States. The US Department of State said it had found no evidence to support Senator McCain’s allegation.

Center for Nonproliferation Studies

Originally posted by Souljah
OK, today Saddam is Classifed as a Madman Dictator, right?
So, in '88 this Madman Dictator GASSED in own People, and months after that, US were STILL supplying this Madman with Chemical and Biological Agents? It does not matter what kind, it matter that they DID AT ALL!

It totally and utterly matters what type of agents the US was supplying the Iraqi regime. Have you even for one moment thought that these agents can be used for saving lives? Have you ever heard of medical research? Certain fungi, toxins and other agents are a necessity in keeping a healthcare system running. Some of them are used to diagnose and some of them go into creating medicines and vaccines. Jeez.... you even pasted the word "culture".

Please show some knowledge of a subject before using it in your argument. These things were supplied to benefit the Iraqi people, not to be used as weapons.
If you don't know the basics of medicinal purposes for these agents, don't blather on ignorantly about them as if they are the ultimate proof-pointer when they are not.

We all know Iraq already had most of these chemical weapons, or obtained many without US help. Before the US was supplying them with anything it was the Soviet Union up until the mid 1980's.
www.moreorless.au.com...
www.nti.org...

I looked up some of the others, and there is no doubt that some have the ability to be procured into biological and chemical agents, and this I can not morally justify myself. The decision to supply them was purely political. But you also have to look at what was going on. At this time Iran was an enemy of the United States after their revolution of 1979. Of course we were going to supply Sadaam. Another factor in this was trying to get the Soviets out of the arms dealing loop with Iraq, for which they had dominated since Hussein took power. At the time I believe, while wrong it was politically necessary for the US at the time, although it did come back to bite us in the ass later, we did clean up our own mess. But the US were certainly not the only ones to assist Iraq. Countries including Russia, France, Itally, German, and Japan gave much assistance to the arming of Iraq. But that is neither here nor there.


[edit on 11/30/2005 by ludaChris]

The lady who wrote this letter is Pam Foster of Pamela Foster and Associates in Atlanta. She's been in business since 1980 doing interior design and home planning. She recently wrote the following letter to a family member serving in Iraq....... Check it out!

WHAT'S ALL THE FUSS?

"Are we fighting a war on terror or aren't we? Was it or was it not started by Islamic people who brought it to our shores on September 11, 2001?

Were people from all over the world, mostly Americans, not brutally murdered that day, in downtown Manhattan, across the Potomac from our nation's capitol and in a field in Pennsylvania? Did nearly three thousand men, women and children die a horrible, burning or crushing death that day, or didn't they?

And I'm supposed to care that a copy of the Koran was "desecrated" when an overworked American soldier kicked it or got it wet? Well, I don't. I don't care at all.

I'll start caring when Osama bin Laden turns himself in and repents for incinerating all those innocent people on 9/11.

I'll care about the Koran when the fanatics in the Middle East start caring about the Holy Bible, the mere possession of which is a crime in Saudi Arabia.

I'll care when Abu Musab al-Zarqawi tells the world he is sorry for hacking off Nick Berg's head while Berg screamed through his gurgling, slashed throat.

I'll care when the cowardly so-called "insurgents" in Iraq come out and fight like men instead of disrespecting their own religion by hiding in mosques.

I'll care when the mindless zealots who blow themselves up in search of nirvana care about the innocent children within range of their suicide bombs.

I'll care when the American media stops pretending that their First Amendment liberties are somehow derived from international law instead of the United States Constitution's Bill of Rights.

In the meantime, when I hear a story about a brave marine roughing up an Iraqi terrorist to obtain information, know this: I don't care.

When I see a fuzzy photo of a pile of naked Iraqi prisoners who have been humiliated in what amounts to a college hazing incident, rest assured that I don't care.

When I see a wounded terrorist get shot in the head when he is told not to move because he might be booby-trapped, you can take it to the bank that I don't care.

When I hear that a prisoner, who was issued a Koran and a prayer mat, and fed "special" food that is paid for by my tax dollars, is complaining that his holy book is being "mishandled," you can absolutely believe in your heart of hearts that I don't care.

And oh, by the way, I've noticed that sometimes it's spelled "Koran" and other times "Quran." Well, Jimmy Crack Corn and ---- you got it, I DON'T CARE!

If you agree with this view point, pass this on to all your e-mail friends. Sooner or later, it'll get to the people responsible for this ridiculous behavior! If you don't agree, then by all means hit the delete button. Should you choose the latter, then please don't complain when more atrocities committed by radical Muslims happen here in our great country.


"If you can read this, Thank a teacher!
If you are reading it in English, Thank a Veteran."

Originally posted by waroftheworlds
"Are we fighting a war on terror or aren't we? Was it or was it not started by Islamic people who brought it to our shores on September 11, 2001?

Actually it was started by Catholic Corporate Capitalistic (CCC) Fundamentalists and staged in front of World Eyes like a Million dollar Hollywood Movie - there are several Threads in this CONSPIRACY Forum, where you can actually Read what REALLY happened on 9-11.

Were people from all over the world, mostly Americans, not brutally murdered that day, in downtown Manhattan, across the Potomac from our nation's capitol and in a field in Pennsylvania? Did nearly three thousand men, women and children die a horrible, burning or crushing death that day, or didn't they?

And that is why 100.000 of Iraqi CIVILANS have to Die?
Do you know how many Children die a DAY because of Malnutrition?
According to UNICEF, 30,000 children die each day due to poverty. That is about 210,000 children each week, or just under 11 million children under five years of age, each year.
Problem is, that there are not many CAMERAS in Africa and the rest of the Third World, to "Cover" all that, just like they did on Manhattan.

And I'm supposed to care that a copy of the Koran was "desecrated" when an overworked American soldier kicked it or got it wet? Well, I don't. I don't care at all.

Well - you know what? Expect the same in Return.

I'll start caring when Osama bin Laden turns himself in and repents for incinerating all those innocent people on 9/11.

You wanna find OBL? Ask the CIA.

I'll care about the Koran when the fanatics in the Middle East start caring about the Holy Bible, the mere possession of which is a crime in Saudi Arabia.

Saudi Arabia is a BIG ALLY of United States, remember? Your President and his Daddy hold hands with the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia, 'member? Or has that slipped your mind? 12 out of 15 "Terrorists" from 9-11 were Saudi - who did Bush invade? Afganistan and Iraq. Why?

I'll care when Abu Musab al-Zarqawi tells the world he is sorry for hacking off Nick Berg's head while Berg screamed through his gurgling, slashed throat.

There is no such thing as a Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.
And if you would have Explored this Board a little you would find a Thread, saying that there were ENGLISH Voices heard on Nick Berg Video - English Words and Western Voices Heard on Nick Berg Beheading Video

I'll care when the cowardly so-called "insurgents" in Iraq come out and fight like men instead of disrespecting their own religion by hiding in mosques.

You mean like MEN that drop Bombs from Air?
OR like MEN that drop Napalm?
OR like MEN that use White Phosphours?
OR like MEN that use Depleted Uranium?
OR like MEN that rest in Mosques?



You mean THESE men?

I'll care when the mindless zealots who blow themselves up in search of nirvana care about the innocent children within range of their suicide bombs.

Guess what - they were not blowing themselves up before the US Invasion of Iraq. Nor were there any suicide bombers before Jews came to Isreal and "Removed" the Palestinians from their Homes.

I'll care when the American media stops pretending that their First Amendment liberties are somehow derived from international law instead of the United States Constitution's Bill of Rights.

And yo do not care if SOME American Media REWRITES the first Amendements by Reporting Lies and Making up stories as they go along? *caugh*caugh*FOXNEWS*caugh*caugh*

In the meantime, when I hear a story about a brave marine roughing up an Iraqi terrorist to obtain information, know this: I don't care.

Was it a Terrorist or a Terrorist SUSPECT? There is a big difference, and I sure would love to see you arrested for nothing and tortured and abused, just because you look like an A-rab and have an Arabic Name in the wrong country. Torture is ILLEGAL by international law, and anybody who uses torture as their interrogation methods, is breaking that same law - that makes the United States look pretty funny, when they are telling OTHER people what to do, when they are breaking so many laws and conventions, that its pretty sick.

When I see a fuzzy photo of a pile of naked Iraqi prisoners who have been humiliated in what amounts to a college hazing incident, rest assured that I don't care.

I know you don't - proving just one thing: that you do not care for anything but your own behind, just like your president.

When I see a wounded terrorist get shot in the head when he is told not to move because he might be booby-trapped, you can take it to the bank that I don't care.

Yeah, thats how it works, right? When wounded or killed he is an INSURGENT - that way you simply can't go wrong!

"70 Suspected Insurgents in that House, Sir."

"Call in the F/A-18 and Bomb it to Hell!"

Suddenly 70 Suspected Insurgents become 70 Dead Terrorists - 40 of them Women and Children.

Lemme Guess - YOU DONT CARE?

When I hear that a prisoner, who was issued a Koran and a prayer mat, and fed "special" food that is paid for by my tax dollars, is complaining that his holy book is being "mishandled," you can absolutely believe in your heart of hearts that I don't care.

Maybe thats why they don't care about the Holy Bible in Saudi Arabia.

Hey - I DONT CARE!

And oh, by the way, I've noticed that sometimes it's spelled "Koran" and other times "Quran." Well, Jimmy Crack Corn and ---- you got it, I DON'T CARE!

Actually it is Holy Qu'Ran.

If you agree with this view point, pass this on to all your e-mail friends. Sooner or later, it'll get to the people responsible for this ridiculous behavior! If you don't agree, then by all means hit the delete button. Should you choose the latter, then please don't complain when more atrocities committed by radical Muslims happen here in our great country.

Hey - I don't agree with your Viepoints, which really had NOTHING to do with the topic of this Thread of Mine, but HEY, I imagine that You don't CARE, right?

And if you don't agree with MY Viewpoint, I'll tell you what:

I DON'T CARE!

Open up your own thread called "I don't Care" and write this Dribble of yours inside, mmmmkey?

"If you can read this, Thank a teacher!
If you are reading it in English, Thank a Veteran."

If I can READ this I will Thank MYSELF for going to School.
And if I can READ THIS I will again Thank MYSELF for Learning English and other foreign Languages.

Have a Nice Day!

Wow, I mean just wow. Can we stay on topic please, lets not get any tempers flaring in here.

Originally posted by ludaChris
I looked up some of the others, and there is no doubt that some have the ability to be procured into biological and chemical agents, and this I can not morally justify myself. The decision to supply them was purely political. But you also have to look at what was going on. At this time Iran was an enemy of the United States after their revolution of 1979. Of course we were going to supply Saddam. Another factor in this was trying to get the Soviets out of the arms dealing loop with Iraq, for which they had dominated since Hussein took power. At the time I believe, while wrong it was politically necessary for the US at the time, although it did come back to bite us in the ass later, we did clean up our own mess. But the US were certainly not the only ones to assist Iraq. Countries including Russia, France, Itally, German, and Japan gave much assistance to the arming of Iraq. But that is neither here nor there.

Hmmm, are WE staying on topic?



Anyway - Yes it was a Cold War, and Middle East was a "theatre" for Superpowers to test their Weapons and Technology. USSR did it. USA did it. Europe did it. China did it. The people who had to PAY this with their Lives were the people of Middle East, do you Agree? Now, lets check the US Interventions in the Middle East since the End of the World War 2:

1949: CIA backs military coup in Syria, ousting elected government.

1953: CIA overthrows democratically elected Iranian government, placing the Shah in power. In 1951, Iranian parliament had nationalized the British Anglo-Iranian oil company. This popular move was spearheaded by the reformer, Mossadegh, who was elected prime minister shortly after. Britain and the US organize ruthless economic blockade. Shortly before the coup, the Communist Party calls a 100,000 strong demonstration to protest the US and the Shah. Nine hours of street fighting finally quells popular rebellion against the coup.

1954: Iranian oil re-privatized, with US and Britain in control. Popular opposition compels the Shah to rule through a reign of terror unrivalled in the region. US helps fund huge military and police build-up, and trains Savak, the notorious secret police. Amnesty International would write in 1976 that Iran had the "highest rate of death penalties in the world, no valid system of civilian courts and a history of torture which is beyond belief. No country in the world has a worse record in human rights than Iran."

1957-58: Syria and Egypt take steps toward a merger, reflecting revolutionary yearning of the Arab masses to unite against Western imperialism. The US Sixth Fleet is dispatched, and huge arms shipments are delivered to US client regimes. Syria and Egypt claim to uncover "at least eight separate conspiracies to overthrow one or the other government, to assassinate Nasser, and/or prevent the merger of the two countries." Independent evidence detailing several of these failed plots subsequently emerges.

1958: Iraq and Lebanon: Two weeks after 1958 Egypt/Syria merger, the US establishes "Baghdad Pact," uniting monarchies and puppet regimes against threat of Nasserism and growing Soviet influence. Mass rioting erupts throughout the region. Iraqi troops are ordered into Jordan to put down unrest. Under popular pressure, the army mutinies and instead marches on the royal palace. The hated King, Crown Prince, and Prime Minister are lynched.

The next day, US Marines land in Lebanon and British troops are dispatched to Jordan. A virtual civil war erupts as 14,000 US troops enter Lebanon at the invitation of the unpopular, CIA-backed government of Chamoun. Lebanese forces manage to put down the rebellion after months of urban clashes. President Eisenhower would later write: "This somber turn of events could, without a vigorous response on our part, result in the complete elimination of Western influence in the Middle East."

1963: Right wing of Iraq's Ba'ath party leads successful coup with US support, after unsuccessful US assassination attempt against Iraqi leader, Abdul Karim Qassim. The CIA provides Ba'ath party with names of Iraqi communists to murder, and the CP is ruthlessly slaughtered.

1968: A counter-coup, in which Saddam Hussein participates, leads to nationalization of Iraqi oil in 1972.

1973-75: To destabilize Iraq during a border dispute with Iran, US supports Kurdish rebels with $16 million in arms, promising to back them in their struggle for autonomy. When Iran and Iraq reach an agreement in 1975 and seal off their border, Iraq proceeds to violently suppress the Kurdish rebellion. US ends support for Kurds and denies them refuge. Henry Kissinger, architect of the ploy, explained, "covert action should not be confused with missionary work."

1973, 1978: A nationalist coup in 1973 brings down the Afghan monarchy. A 1978 coup puts the Stalinist Peoples Democratic Party in power. Afraid of growing Afghan ties to the Soviet Union, US begins covert funding for the reactionary Islamic Fundamentalist rebels. Mujahideen "Freedom Fighters" (according to President Ronald Reagan), are lead by Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, whose "followers first gained attention by throwing acid in the faces of women who refused to wear the veil." Six months later, the Soviet Union sends in troops to prop-up the Afghan government.

1979-92: US gives over $3 billion in arms and aid to the Mujahideen in Afghanistan. CIA sets up training camps in Pakistan and Afghanistan - some of the same "terrorist training camps" the US will bomb in 2001. Osama bin Laden and many other of today's Islamic Fundamentalist terrorist leaders are direct recipients of US aid and training. By 1992, more than a million Afghan people will have died, three million disabled, and five million made refugees, in total about half the population. The civil war continues to this day.

1979: Striking oil workers and students in Iran call for ousting the Shah, sparking a revolutionary uprising. US tells Shah it supports him "without reservation" and urges him to violently crush protest, but Shah is overthrown.

1980: Iraq invades Iran. Though antagonistic to both countries, the US intervenes to promote and prolong the conflict, looking to weaken both regimes. US opposes UN resolution condemning Iraq's invasion, takes Iraq off its list of nations supporting terrorism, and allows US arms transfers to Saddam Hussein. US urges Israel to arm Iran, and in 1985 the US secretly provides arms to Iran directly.

1982-83: Heavily funded, armed, and backed by the US, Israel invades Lebanon. Over 17,000 civilians are massacred. US blocks several UN resolutions calling for an Israeli withdrawal. In 1983, US troops also land in Lebanon to intervene in the civil war.

1984: Iraq uses chemical weapons on Iran; US subsequently restores diplomatic relations with Iraq. A US Defense Intelligence Agency official involved in aiding Iraq later commented that the Pentagon "wasn't so horrified by Iraq's use of gas. It was just another way of killing people."

1987: As Iran gets the upper hand in war with Iraq, the US moves to decisively back Iraq. A massive US armada in Persian Gulf ensures arms deliveries to Iraq. When a US gunship shoots down an Iranian civilian airliner, killing 290 passengers, Vice President Bush says, "I will never apologize for America. I don't care what the facts are."

1985-90: The US showers Iraq with billions in arms, loans, and aid. After Saddam Hussein uses chemical weapons to murder thousands of the Kurdish opposition in Iraq, the Bush administration continues to license the sale of chemical weapons, and blocks UN initiatives to curb their use.

1991: After Iraq invades Kuwait in 1990, US launches Operation Desert Storm - the most aggressive, high-tech military campaign in the history of warfare. Dropping more bomb tonnage than in all of Vietnam or World War Two, the 43 day air campaign kills between 100,000 and 200,000 Iraqis and destroys civilian infrastructure. Fearing a popular revolt and the destabilization of the region, the US refuses to aid previously encouraged uprisings by Kurds and Shi'as in the weeks after the war. US denies the rebels access to captured Iraqi weapons, and allows Iraqi helicopters use of "No-fly Zone" airspace to crush the uprising.

1990-now: Severe economic sanctions imposed on Iraq by the UN. By UN estimates, the sanctions have cost over a million lives, half of them children. About 5,000 children die each month, mostly from malnutrition and treatable diseases. From the most economically advanced country in the region before the US attack, Iraq today is among the most destitute.

1998: Renewed US and British bombing campaign - called Operation Desert Fox - against Iraq after it exposes US spies among UN weapons inspectors (later admitted by US officials). The UN pulls out inspectors before bombings, which continue to the present on average every other day.

2001: Following the September 11th terrorist attacks, the US launches a war on Afghanistan, killing over 3,500 people. US led UN occupation of the country props up US puppet regime of Karzai.

2003: Under the Banner of War on Terrorism G.W.Bush Attacks Iraq and removes Saddam's Regime - 100.000 civilans and 2100 US soldiers killed so far.

Now, thats a pretty nice List, ey?
From it you can see, that US HELPED the Ba'athist Party and Saddam Hussein to get to power in Iraq. Then they want to Remove him, becaues he Nationalized the oil, by funding the Kurdish Rebels. Saddam ofcourse, shuts down the Rebellion. Then the Iraq-Iran war starst, and US provides weapons to BOTH Sides (Iran-Contra), but when Iran gets the upper hand in the War, US get scared and they start to INCREASE their support for Saddam and give him billions in arms, loans, and aid. When Saddam Gasses Kurds, the Pentagon "wasn't so horrified by Iraq's use of gas. It was just another way of killing people." Right. When US gunship shoots down an Iranian civilian airliner, killing 290 passengers, Vice President Bush says, "I will never apologize for America. I don't care what the facts are." Sweet. What if Iranian Gunship would shoot down Ameican Civilan Aircraft - TERROR, TERRORISM, TERRORISTS! the People would Scream. But when US does it - hey, its okey! The US goverments don't care what FACTS Are anyway!

Not to mention every other involvment in other Middle Eastern countries, and ofcourse, the ENDLESS support to Isreal and their Occupation of the Palestine. When you see things this way, you actually see that France, Germany, Japan, China, Russia ALLTOGATHER do not have nearly half as many Interventions in this Place of the World, as the does the USA. Why is that, man? Do you really think that US would be present here if the entire Middle East was not standing on a GIANT OIL BASIN? The US have meddled in the Affairs of these people so many times in the Past, that this current was is not really a surprise, but it is a Big Strategic Move by the US, since they have established a Clear Military Foothold in ME and now they can never leave.

Think about it...



[edit on 1/12/05 by Souljah]

Originally posted by Souljah
And that is why 100.000 of Iraqi CIVILANS have to Die?

Well, going by past records, when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbour( less that 3000 died then) we nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki more than 500,000 died. I think it is safe to say, the US plans on a similar retaliation in the middle east, except without the nukes!!

Do you know how many Children die a DAY because of Malnutrition?
According to UNICEF, 30,000 children die each day due to poverty. That is about 210,000 children each week, or just under 11 million children under five years of age, each year.

I know that YOU are not doing anything about it, so why ask the US ?? IF they had attacked the US on Sept 11th then we might have come calling.

Problem is, that there are not many CAMERAS in Africa and the rest of the Third World, to "Cover" all that, just like they did on Manhattan.

Problem is Africa needs to stop begging and start earning!!

You wanna find OBL? Ask the CIA.

You want to find the CIA, ask Souljah to show you a site on where they are !

Saudi Arabia is a BIG ALLY of United States, remember? Your President and his Daddy hold hands with the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia, 'member? Or has that slipped your mind? 12 out of 15 "Terrorists" from 9-11 were Saudi - who did Bush invade? Afganistan and Iraq. Why?

I think I have already answered this question before in another of Souljah's threads. So obvious the answer to this, like Homer Simpson say's " D'oh ! "

There is no such thing as a Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.
And if you would have Explored this Board a little you would find a Thread, saying that there were ENGLISH Voices heard on Nick Berg Video - English Words and Western Voices Heard on Nick Berg Beheading Video

Yeah, the English words were something like,- "Please, Stop. help......aaach, god, aaach......"
Sure heard the "voices" !

You mean like MEN that drop Bombs from Air?

Its called an Airforce!

OR like MEN that drop Napalm?
OR like MEN that use White Phosphours?
OR like MEN that use Depleted Uranium?

Those are called artillery weapons and again proved by me, perfectly legal to use in Iraq by INTERNATIONAL LAW. Nobody can accuse the US of anything on that!

OR like MEN that rest in Mosques?
You mean THESE men?

All that pic shows is troops in an islamic building, cant see people praying, so obviously it isnt a mosque, maybe a prayer hall or a drawing room or anything.

Guess what - they were not blowing themselves up before the US Invasion of Iraq. Nor were there any suicide bombers before Jews came to Isreal and "Removed" the Palestinians from their Homes.

LOL This is funny. Have you not heard of the Kurdish militant attacks against the Bathists during Saddams time ?
And in Isreal before the Jews came, their wasnt any proper water, electricity drainage, houses or even enough food to go around, I dont see you mentioning that ??

And yo do not care if SOME American Media REWRITES the first Amendements by Reporting Lies and Making up stories as they go along? *caugh*caugh*FOXNEWS*caugh*caugh*

How can the media rewrite the First Amendment ?? that doesnt make any sense. I bet you dont even get FoxNews !
Also it is *cough* not *caugh*

that makes the United States look pretty funny, when they are telling OTHER people what to do, when they are breaking so many laws and conventions, that its pretty sick.

Who wrote that law ? We did!
More to the point, who's going to tell the US what to do ?? The good conscience of the American people

I know you don't - proving just one thing: that you do not care for anything but your own behind, just like your president.

whats the name of your president again ?? Forget that what's the name of your capital ?? Lug-....?

Maybe thats why they don't care about the Holy Bible in Saudi Arabia.

Actually, they wouldnt care about the Bible even if we made the US a islamic republic ! Its written in their own book the KURAN, that all other books are impure and that the good prophet is the only true and last messenger of god.

Actually, they wouldnt care about the Bible even if we made the US a islamic republic ! Its written in their own book the KURAN, that all other books are impure and that the good prophet is the only true and last messenger of god.

Well actually, Muhammad(PBUH) is not seen as the only true messenger but as the last messenger, Islam recongizes 25 prophets as the true prophets which include Jesus(PBUH) and Moses(PBUH).. Unlike Christianity/Judaism, Islam recongizes their messengers and its religion.

Originally posted by shire19
Well actually, Muhammad(PBUH) is not seen as the only true messenger but as the last messenger, Islam recongizes 25 prophets as the true prophets which include Jesus(PBUH) and Moses(PBUH).. Unlike Christianity/Judaism, Islam recongizes their messengers and its religion.

So what are you trying to say ? Islam is better ?
Also what about the shias then ?

Well ok, GHWB didnt apologize because he felt the US ship acted accordingly and within regulations. However, formal apologies for that incident were made by President Reagan and our State Dept. The airliner wasnt shot down by a gun ship is was done by an Aegis Cruiser, the airliner was outside of commercial airlanes and the radar and other data they had showed it to be a hostile aircraft. The Radar operators tried challenging the aircrafts course over International Air Defence and Emergency frequencies and got no responses, according to doctrine they did act correctly.

www.washingtonpost.com...

Lets not get into the so called "Israeli Occupation of Palesitine". Too much of a hot button issue. But anyhow to answe your question no, we probably would not be there if there was no oil. Every government is charged with doing what is best for their country and looking out for the peoples needs. That is what is happening, its politics in disguise, as is everything else that happens in this world.

Originally posted by IAF101
So what are you trying to say ? Islam is better ?

Not at all, just felt obliged to point out that incorrect statement.

Originally posted by IAF101
Also what about the shias then ?

Shia's are still Muslims, they still follow the Qu'ran and its teachings.

Originally posted by shire19
Shia's are still Muslims, they still follow the Qu'ran and its teachings.

I know that this is off topic but I have to ask, How can the shia's be muslims if they dont believe that Mohammed is the last prophet ?
What about the Aga Khan? How can you be part of a religion and not accept its basic tenets ?
Anyway, the muslims believe that the Bible and the Torah have been corrupted and only the Kuran remains untainted hence is the ONLY pure word of GOD.

Originally posted by IAF101
I know that this is off topic but I have to ask, How can the shia's be muslims if they dont believe that Mohammed is the last prophet ?

They do believe he is the last prophet, they still follow the 5 Pillars of Islam, after Muhammad(PBUH) died he did not appoint one to follow in his footsteps as the Caliph (leader of the Islamic world), the Sunni's believed the next Caliph should be one thats capable of leading the Islamic world forward while the Shia's believed it should be someone who is directly related to Muhammad(PBUH) and thats how the drift occured.

Sunni eventually got their way and appointed Abu Bakr as the new Caliph because he was capable of it, because of that the Shia did not recongize any Caliph after Muhammad(PBUH) if my memory serves correctly.

Originally posted by IAF101
What about the Aga Khan?

The Shia do recongize the Imam (descendants of Muhammad(PBUH) but the last original Shia Imam (Al-Askari) died 873CE but the Shia did not want to accept that so they appointed a council to elect Imams since then, Ayyatollah Khomeni was the last modern Shia Imam as far as I know.

Originally posted by IAF101
Anyway, the muslims believe that the Bible and the Torah have been corrupted and only the Kuran remains untainted hence is the ONLY pure word of GOD.

That doesnt mean they dont recongize the religion, Islam simply sees it as misinterpreted source of information.

Originally posted by shire19
Sunni eventually got their way and appointed Abu Bakr as the new Caliph because he was capable of it, because of that the Shia did not recongize any Caliph after Muhammad(PBUH) if my memory serves correctly.

Actually, that is wrong. The Sunnis feel that even though Ali, Muhammeds daughters child was alive the sunni's chose a woman to be the caliph. A woman that lost to Ali and then the sunni's murdered Ali while he was praying so that Ali's enemy could be the next caliph. This is why the Shia's dont trust the Sunnis and viceversa.

That doesnt mean they dont recongize the religion, Islam simply sees it as misinterpreted source of information.

Obviously, when you say Solomon fought for allah and so did david and Jesus was allah's messenger, the author has to recognize the sources for his compilation doesnt he? But he is not gratefull to them in his book.