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Will mainstream America ever awaken?

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posted on Nov, 9 2005 @ 12:17 PM
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Originally posted by kedfr

If US citizens resisted the government by taking up their arms against the state, it would result in a situation not unlike present day Iraq, with a guerilla war ensuing. As armed as many people are, they are still no match for the overwhelming resources and power of the US military - at least in a conventional sense.



In Vietnam it was estimanted you needed a convential force that outnumbers the enemy 10-1 to win while fighting a guerilla force. Using those numbers, With 100 million gun owners in the USA fighting a guerilla war you would need a convential force of 1 billion to effectively win. The numbers might have changed since then as we learned alot about guerilla warfare but most of the time you need a much larger convential force to successfully fight a guerilla force.

Now if US citizens where to fight the military in a convential war with large forces the numbers gone down drastically. The US military has shown the ablitly to win convential wars while even being outnumbered.




posted on Nov, 9 2005 @ 12:48 PM
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Originally posted by ShadowXIX
In Vietnam it was estimanted you needed a convential force that outnumbers the enemy 10-1 to win while fighting a guerilla force. Using those numbers, With 100 million gun owners in the USA fighting a guerilla war you would need a convential force of 1 billion to effectively win. The numbers might have changed since then as we learned alot about guerilla warfare but most of the time you need a much larger convential force to successfully fight a guerilla force.

Now if US citizens where to fight the military in a convential war with large forces the numbers gone down drastically. The US military has shown the ablitly to win convential wars while even being outnumbered.


True, that is why guerrilla would be more likely. In any case, the most likely outcome would be a protracted stalemate.



posted on Nov, 9 2005 @ 04:58 PM
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One more city looses their guns today. Whos city, county or state is next to loose theirs?

Chalk up another this year that has ban guns of some form.
As mentioned in an earlier post they will not take the guns out right they will do it little by little.




Voters approved ballot measures to ban handguns in San Francisco and urge the city's public high schools and college campuses to keep out military recruiters.


Gun Ban

Raist



posted on Nov, 9 2005 @ 05:08 PM
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It seems that very soon only crocks and thieves will be able to get hand guns in their possession, meanwhile regular law abider citizens will be at the mercy of them.

How stupid.



posted on Nov, 9 2005 @ 05:17 PM
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What a smart move Frisco
Banning Guns really made Cities like NYC and DC much safer



posted on Nov, 9 2005 @ 06:30 PM
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What Maryland is thinking over ATM.
Marylands gun ban (PDF download.) 96kb

Lets not forget July of this year Columbus, Ohio had a gun ban also.
NRA cancles 2007 in because of ban


Also there was the proposed Clinton gun ban, Bush was happy to sign a semi auto ban if it went through and Clinton has been rubbing elbows alot this past year with both daddy and baby Bush.

The guns are easy to take if you say the right things to ppl and do it a few at a time. They will hand them over as easily as "freedom" with the patriot act.

Raist

Mod edit: link clarity



[edit on 10-11-2005 by sanctum]



posted on Nov, 9 2005 @ 07:07 PM
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However, it will be to the sound of government agents breaking down their doors.



posted on Nov, 9 2005 @ 07:17 PM
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i still love that people are using the term "pre-police state." it IS a police state people!!! wake up!!! you cannot do what u want(meaning things that do not harm other people). how many people do you know that actually don't get nervous when cops are behind them???!! i do! and i'm not doing anything illegal in public. i think that most of America is hip to this...but unfortunately we are run by the few,and the rich. America will wake up when all us poor farmers,rednecks,hillbillies, suburbanites,and working poor take a freakin stand.



posted on Nov, 9 2005 @ 11:21 PM
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Originally posted by psychosgirl
i still love that people are using the term "pre-police state." it IS a police state people!!! wake up!!! you cannot do what u want(meaning things that do not harm other people). how many people do you know that actually don't get nervous when cops are behind them???!! i do! and i'm not doing anything illegal in public. i think that most of America is hip to this...but unfortunately we are run by the few,and the rich. America will wake up when all us poor farmers,rednecks,hillbillies, suburbanites,and working poor take a freakin stand.


Hey I agree with you completely, what you are saying about the feeling any Law enfocement agency you deal with it feels that way, even when they feel, and you are on there side. Hey they freak me out when they pull behind our rescue rig and were running code, I always say holy@$#& its da cops! Everyone always laughs nervousy. Things are not so cool no more eh?



posted on Nov, 10 2005 @ 01:55 AM
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I've read through your posts on this thread, and want to at least make some sort of response.

First, they're quite impressive, both in content and in form. It does my heart good to see both thinking and writing of that quality anywhere.

I'm still digesting your ideas, and I'm not ready to really address them. I think I'm mostly in agreement with you, but I'm not entirely convinced.

One thing struck me though-- it seems that, overall, your notion that the US is not heading towards what one might completely accurately term a totalitarian police state is an almost meaningless distinction.

Yes, Americans, due to their tradition of independence, or at least what they perceive to be independence, would not tolerate the trappings of a true police state in the Stalinist USSR sense. However, it seems obvious that we are indeed heading toward a uniquely American version of what is, ultimately, essentially the same thing.

It seems that you're saying that if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, that still doesn't mean that it necessarily is a duck. While that's technically true, I'm not sure that it's significant. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it will continue to walk like a duck and quack like a duck regardless of whether you call it one or not.

Yeah-- if it's truly not a duck, then one arguably does others a disservice by calling it one, but if, to them, a duck is a thing that walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it's probably moot that the thing in question might not entirely legitimately be called a duck. It seems that the terminology would only be significant if it conjured up entirely the wrong image.

Additionally, it could be argued that it's of no value to tell most people that the thing in question is an American Widgeon, when they don't know what that is, and you end up having to tell them that it's a kind of duck. You might as well have just said 'duck' in the first place.

I know there's more, but I still need to process it all, and it's getting late here, so I'll leave it at that for now.



Thanks for the food for thought.



[edit on 10-11-2005 by Bob LaoTse]



posted on Nov, 10 2005 @ 11:22 AM
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Originally posted by Raist

Also there was the proposed Clinton gun ban, Bush was happy to sign a semi auto ban if it went through and Clinton has been rubbing elbows alot this past year with both daddy and baby Bush.



It was the "Assualt weapon ban" not the semi auto ban.

It also never made it to Bush, Clinton's Assault Weapon Ban was allowed to sunset. Clinton even said later he estimated the AWB cost 20 Democrats their jobs, giving Republicans control of Congress.

Alot of people refused to get behind this useless ban that had no effect and was largely based on Cosmetic features of guns this time and they let it die.



posted on Nov, 10 2005 @ 12:55 PM
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Originally posted by ShadowXIX

Originally posted by Raist

Also there was the proposed Clinton gun ban, Bush was happy to sign a semi auto ban if it went through and Clinton has been rubbing elbows alot this past year with both daddy and baby Bush.



It was the "Assualt weapon ban" not the semi auto ban.

It also never made it to Bush, Clinton's Assault Weapon Ban was allowed to sunset. Clinton even said later he estimated the AWB cost 20 Democrats their jobs, giving Republicans control of Congress.

Alot of people refused to get behind this useless ban that had no effect and was largely based on Cosmetic features of guns this time and they let it die.


I was not sugesting it was the same thing sorry if you took it as such. I was merely pointing out that for the past 2 presidents we have had ppl in the public willing to sacrifice guns for the "greater cause".

With Bush and Clinton being so close lately it seems as though they would be happy to share ideas of taking those "pesky" guns from ppl so that we do not hurt each other.

Raist



posted on Nov, 11 2005 @ 09:38 PM
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define "greater cause."



posted on Nov, 12 2005 @ 04:38 PM
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For me, I have seen America change, change dramatically. Police State? We are only a few small steps from it, the Bush Cabal would like nothing better. We used to be free....back in the 60s, and 70s, everyone was free, except for the IRS, and the Federal Reserve Bank controlling our money and economy. We could get work most anywhere, for good pay and insurance benefits. I worked as a line mechanic for years, and made a good living, but not anymore. the only ones who take their car to a garage are the poor, the rich just buy a new one every 2 or 3 years. Same with computer repair, now one can buy one for $400, why pay to repair your old one?
I remember my Mom bitching all the way home because it cost $20 to feed a family of four, now i spend at least that much for one night's food. Gasoline was $.35 a gallon when i learned to drive, and that was good, red/orange colored 100 octane, too, not the green stuff we get today at $2.20 a gallon. they would surely tax the air we breathe if they could figure out how to meter it. Before you make a solid decision on whether or not we are coming to a police state, I invite you to read on these articles;
The United States Civil Disturbance Plan 55-2
/dqyth
In this document signed by the Secretary of the Army, is hereby assigned as DOD Executive Agent for civil disturbance control operations. Under Plan 55-2 he is to use airlift and logistical support, in assisting appropriate military commanders in the 50 states, District of Columbia, and the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico and US possessions and territories, or any political subdivision thereof.

The official name of this project is called "Operation Garden Plot."

Under this plan for the deployment of Operation Garden Plot, the use of CIDCON-1 will be mandatory. This direct support of civil disturbance control operations is to be used by the Army, USAF, Navy, and Marine Corp. with an airlift force to be comprised of MAC Organic Airlift Resources, airlift capable aircraft of all other USAF major commands, and all other aerial reconnaissance and Airborne Psychological Operations. This is to include control communications systems, aeromedical evacuation, helicopter and Weather Support Systems.

If any civil disturbance by a resistance group, religious organization, or other persons considered to be non-conformist takes place, under Appendix 3 to Annex B of Plan 55-2 hereby gives all Federal forces total power over the situation if local and state authorities cannot put down said dissenters.

Annex A, section B of Operation Garden Plot defines tax protesters, militia groups, religious cults, and general anti-government dissenters as Disruptive Elements. This calls for the deadly force to be used against any extremist or dissident perpetrating any and all forms of civil disorder.

Under section D, a Presidential Executive Order will authorize and direct the Secretary of Defense to use the Armed Forces of the United States to restore order.

2 TAB A APPENDIX 1 TO ANNEX S USAF CIVIL DISTURBANCE PLAN 55-2 EXHIBIT POR:SGH, JCS Pub 6, Vol 5, AFR 160-5 hereby provides for America's military and the National Guard State Partnership Program to join with United Nations personal in said operations. This links selected U.S. National Guard units with the Defense Ministries of "Partnership For Peace." This was done in an effort to provide military support to civil authorities in response to civil emergencies.

Under Presidential Decision Directive No. 25, this program serves to cement people to relationships between the citizens of the United States, and the global military of the UN establishments of the emerging democracies of Central and Eastern European countries. This puts all of our National Guardsmen under the direct jurisdiction of the United Nations.

Section 3:
This plan could be implemented under any of the following situation:

(1) Spontaneous civil disturbances which involve large numbers of persons and/or which continue for a considerable period of time, may exceed the capacity of local civil law enforcement agencies to suppress. Although this type of activity can arise without warning as a result of sudden, unanticipated popular unrest (past riots), it may also result from more prolonged dissidence.

This would most likely be an outgrowth of serious social, political or economic issues which divide segments of the American population. Such factionalism could manifest itself through repeated demonstrations, protest marches and other forms of legitimate opposition but which would have the potential for erupting into spontaneous violence with little or no warning.

(2) Planned acts of violence or civil disobedience which, through arising from the same causes as (1) above, are seized upon by a dedicated group of dissidents who plan and incite purposeful acts designed to disrupt social order.

This may occur either because leaders of protest organizations intentionally induce their followers to perpetrate violent acts, or because a group of militants infiltrates an otherwise peaceful protest and seeks to divert it from its peaceful course.

Subsection C: (2) Environmental satellite products will be continue to be available. (d) Responsibilities. Meteorological support to civil disturbance operations will be arranged or provided by AWS wings.

The 7th. Weather Wing (7WW) is responsible for providing / arranging support for Military Airlift Command (MAC) airlift operations. The 5th Weather Wing (5WW) is responsible for supporting the United States Army Forces Command.

(3) SITUATION. Civil disturbance may threaten or erupt at any time in the CONUS and grow to such proportions as to require the use the Federal military forces to bring the situation under control.

A flexible weather support system is required under control. A flexible weather support system is required to support the many and varied options of this Plan. (More at Site)
***********************************************************************
Abolishing the USA
By by William F. Jasper
The New American, October 3, 2005 Issue
/7co2k

The United States of America is being abolished. Piecemeal. Before our very eyes. By our own elected officials — under the guidance and direction of unelected elites. Incredible? Certainly. But, unfortunately, true nonetheless.

For decades, federal officials have ignored the pleas of American citizens to secure our borders against an immense, ongoing migration invasion that includes not only millions of “common variety” illegal aliens, but also drug traffickers, terrorists, and other violent criminals. Now, under the pretense of providing security, the Bush administration is adopting an outrageous policy that, in effect, does away with our borders with Mexico and Canada altogether. Regular readers of THE NEW AMERICAN know that this magazine has been warning that this direct assault on our nationhood was coming, that it is part and parcel of the NAFTA-CAFTA-FTAA process.

However, almost a million Americans received their first notice of this fast-looming threat from a startling special report on CNN. On June 9, CNN anchorman Lou Dobbs began his evening broadcast with this provocative announcement: “Good evening, everybody. Tonight, an astonishing proposal to expand our borders to incorporate Mexico and Canada and simultaneously further diminish U.S. sovereignty. Have our political elites gone mad?”
(More at Site)
**********************************************************************
AMERICA'S HIDDEN AGENDA
/9znfl

The US government has a hidden agenda - a conspiracy to establish an American empire and rule the world.

The elite men in control are now so certain of their absolute power that they no longer conceal their plan for the New World Order.

The insiders behind US government policy, including Vice-President Dick Cheney, and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld,[1, 2] have openly declared their bold vision for "American world leadership", a "global leadership" controlled by the White House.


NEW WORLD ORDER

Every intelligent adult on the planet should read the material published by The Project for the New American Century.[3] These documents reveal the true factors shaping the world, at this time, for all to see. The PNAC is literally an "organization whose goal is to promote American global leadership".

The PNAC, which helps the US President decide official policy, openly speaks of America's "new order", which is also referred to as the "New World Order".[5] The New World Order is heralded by the Latin motto "Novus Ordo Seclorum," meaning "a New Order of the Ages," which is enscribed on the reverse of the Great Seal of the United States and printed on the back of every one-dollar-bill.

PNAC calls upon Americans throughout the world to "embrace the cause of American leadership" as the US government creates "an international order friendly to our security, our prosperity, and our principles".[7]

The events of September 11th are being used to manipulate public emotion, using people's grief, anger, and fear, to guarantee American support for the NWO, and "to launch a new era of American internationalism."



posted on Nov, 12 2005 @ 05:50 PM
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No, probably not. But I've been working on all the BIG message boards for BSB FANS, except livedaily(way too confusing), I've even maded into one of the biggest fanfics sites as a reviewer and her BIGGEST FAN(she's an awesome writer and webmaster), so people will realize that Generation Y will be questioning authority, plus Nick Carter has lyrics on his album that imply them. So the fans know. YAY!*hugs ATS ppl*

So just pray and work and see what happens. Not to mention BSB knows I exsist, and I nearly met AJ, so I'm rather well accomplished for the year. I'm the fanbase's most famous "CT". LOL:0
So trust me, our day's coming, and it will come soon. Not sure how or why, but it will. And it's gonna be so MEGA AWESOME COOL TOO!


I forgot to mention, it took about 3 months, but than I guess I got sorta "renouned" for an internet person and most of them just accepted me, so that's cool.


[edit on 11/12/05 by bsbfan1]

[edit on 11/12/05 by bsbfan1]

[edit on 11/12/05 by bsbfan1]



posted on Nov, 12 2005 @ 07:38 PM
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Originally posted by psychosgirl
define "greater cause."


Not my greater cause but theirs.

They have alot of ppl believing this garbage of if you hand over your guns your safer because crime will go down.

I say leave me with my guns get rid of homeland (what a stinking waste) security and I'll protect myself and my family.

But their greater cause is not a great cause it's more like a death sentance.

Raist



posted on Nov, 13 2005 @ 12:23 AM
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Originally posted by Raist

Originally posted by psychosgirl
define "greater cause."


Not my greater cause but theirs.

They have alot of ppl believing this garbage of if you hand over your guns your safer because crime will go down.

I say leave me with my guns get rid of homeland (what a stinking waste) security and I'll protect myself and my family.

But their greater cause is not a great cause it's more like a death sentance.

Raist


Raist, your right, you can tell how many ppl sleep through the section on the American revolution in history class, it's sad. But my family's not that guillable, so I'm not too worried. And for those who wonder the whole message board thing might not have worked, but at least the doubts are going mainstream and so is the fact, that hey dissenters can't fit a profile anymore, which should at least tell some of the other fans, something is up.



posted on Nov, 13 2005 @ 10:02 AM
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On the gun control thing, I must say that I don't like it one bit. Take away our guns, and that would make us vulnerable to anything they (TPTB) wish to try. For myself, I have taken to carrying a concealed weapon, and this may suprise you, it's a .44 cal. Remington Cap & Ball revolver, 18" long, 2 pounds 11 ounces, in a shoulder rig. I know....ancient technology, takes too long to reload, etc. But, I bought the pistol using another name and address,(a friend) and I buy ammo and powder without having to sign my name, and to me, this is a bonus.



posted on Nov, 15 2005 @ 09:29 PM
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Will mainstream America ever wake up? No.

Most Americans are too easily brainwashed by what is fed to them by the government via the news outlets.

The media is a wonderful thing, as long as you know how to control it, and for that matter, ARE the one controlling it. It's even more wonderful when the general populace doesn't realize that what's being fed to them is what you want them to know.

Like a big company executive once said, "We just paid $3 billion for these television stations...the news is what we SAY it is."



posted on Nov, 15 2005 @ 09:51 PM
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What exactly are americans to wake up to. Bush has a few years left then hes gone and you have a new guy. You have the power to vote in new representatives at every level. Guess if I get you right then its the mainstream thats caused the problems in the first place by not voting correctly or are all elections rigged? You guys need another boston tea party by the sounds of it. Or on a more serious note you need a JFK type politician to rally behind, get off ATS and onto the street corner and make a start. If you cannot trust your own government at all levels then you do have a major problem.





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