POLITICS: "Non-PC" Christmas Lights to be Axed

No more than I care what they call their festivals I presume. There are plenty of other religious celebrations all over the UK, and cards and whatnot......I have no problem with them, and I doubt they have a problem with Christmas. Bah humbug if they do tbh

Originally posted by Strodyn
No more than I care what they call their festivals I presume. There are plenty of other religious celebrations all over the UK, and cards and whatnot......I have no problem with them, and I doubt they have a problem with Christmas. Bah humbug if they do tbh

Its not them that is the issue. It is the PC brigade which thinks they have a problem with it. I have never heard a muslim or a hindu complain about christmas. In fact, many will celebrate it anway as it is fun and an excuse to celebrate with family. It doesn;t need to be a religious festival at all.

and tbh there isn't much 'religion' in it any more.

Agreed the PC lot are bonkers tbh, too concerned with getting sued or something like that to realise that all they are doing is increasing racial tensions.

Originally posted by stumason
This is crazy! I do not understand the PC crowd sometimes. Doing away with Christmas lights because they cause offence to minorities? The operative word there being minorites. I thought this country was a democracy, where everyone was entitled to freedom of expression and religion, not just those who are from a foreign background.

Uh...they're not "doing away" with Christmas lights, they're just refusing to pay for them. If Christians want Christmas lights on Christmas, they can pay for them themselves. I'm sure Pat Robertson has a few extra pennies to spare, I mean the guy does have his own energy drink...

Also, something I have noticed from watching kids TV with my daughter, is that they first ram home the fact it is Eid and tell you all about it , how wonderful it is and now they have started running slots on shows about Diwali.

I think that's awesome. If I had kids, I'll make sure to tell them to try and convert your kids to Hinduism, [sarcasm] because we all know that if you don't accept Krishna as your lord and savior you are gonna burn in the fires of Hell...[/sarcasm]

Originally posted by stumason
The only voter on spending will be by the council itself, which is full of the PC-Brigade mini Hitlers that are causing the problems.

You should brush up on your world history. Hitler was anything but PC...

[edit on 7-11-2005 by ShakyaHeir]

Uh...they're not "doing away" with Christmas lights, they're just refusing to pay for them. If Christians want Christmas lights on Christmas, they can pay for them themselves. I'm sure Pat Robertson has a few extra pennies to spare, I mean the guy does have his own energy drink...

Erm....Its their bloody job to pay for them. My town puts up Christmas lights each year beacuse it is traditional, makes the place feel festive and people want them. People in this town want them as well and as tax payers, they should bloody well get them.

And lets remember this is England.

We don't have hordes of rampaging Christians everywhere. In fact, less than 1 million of us would regulary go to church.

This is about tradition and the fact that this is what we have done for decades, if not well over a century.

Christams lights are to be seen up and down the country and to refuse to pay for them on the grounds you might offend some minority is bloody rediculous and downright offensive to the 90% of the population who do want them. This is PC gone too far.

On the Childrens programme side of things. I don't object to them teaching about other cultures, but teaching about them above all else to the point you feel like their trying to convert you is slightly suspect.

They never go to the lengths to explain Christmas or Easter, except to pay lip service to the commercial side, ie: presents and the Easter Bunny/Eggs.

If they want diversity, there has to be a balance.

I don't agree with anything that looks like it is positive discimination at all. Why should there be any? i thought we were all equal? Or are some more equal than others?

EDIT:

You should brush up on your world history. Hitler was anything but PC...

Do you even know what them meaning of a "little-hitler" is? I know full well about the history of my country from 70BC through to the present day. I am not actuallt comparing them to Hitler.

It is a figure of speech to describe a trumped up little idiot who would abuse their power or otherwise have some sort of superiority complex which made them impose stupid rules on everyone else.




[edit on 7/11/05 by stumason]

There is a very simple solution here. When the next round of elections come up vote the fools out of office. End of problem.

Frankly I think this PC thing is getting out of control.

Originally posted by stumason
Erm....Its their bloody job to pay for them. My town puts up Christmas lights each year beacuse it is traditional, makes the place feel festive and people want them. People in this town want them as well and as tax payers, they should bloody well get them.

How about this, the city council gives the money it would have spent on the lights back to the people, then the people can send it back if they want lights put up. And all the skroogs like me can go "bah humbug" and put that money into their stock portfolio...

Maybe then we'll see how much everyone actually wants them...

And lets remember this is England.

We don't have hordes of rampaging Christians everywhere. In fact, less than 1 million of us would regulary go to church.

That's a comforting thought. I didn't know that about England, now that I do I respect your country a lot more.

This is about tradition and the fact that this is what we have done for decades, if not well over a century.

Just because something's a tradition doesn't mean it's good to preserve that tradition. Some African countries still have a tradition of female genital mutilation, should we continue that for the sake of tradition?

Christams lights are to be seen up and down the country and to refuse to pay for them on the grounds you might offend some minority is bloody rediculous and downright offensive to the 90% of the population who do want them. This is PC gone too far.

Maybe I need to know more about what exactly is entailed in the town's Christmas display. I actually would be a lot more comfortable with the whole idea if it was just lights and not baby Jesus in a manger with the three wise men, etc, etc...

On the Childrens programme side of things. I don't object to them teaching about other cultures, but teaching about them above all else to the point you feel like their trying to convert you is slightly suspect.

They never go to the lengths to explain Christmas or Easter, except to pay lip service to the commercial side, ie: presents and the Easter Bunny/Eggs.

I don't know if you have this in the U.K. but over in America we have this thing called TBN (Trinity Broadcasting Network), and on top of the year round televangelism and political activism (George W Bush has appeared on their most popular program "Praise the Lord") they also tend to run Christmas specials 24/7 around Christmas time and go to great lengths to make sure that you understand it's significance.

And it's funny that you mention religious conversion because Christianity is one of those religions that vehemently tries to convert others to it's ranks (at least in America) because they're all convinced they need to "save" the rest of the world.

Do you even know what them meaning of a "little-hitler" is? I know full well about the history of my country from 70BC through to the present day. I am not actuallt comparing them to Hitler.

It is a figure of speech to describe a trumped up little idiot who would abuse their power or otherwise have some sort of superiority complex which made them impose stupid rules on everyone else.

I was just very amused by the fact that you juxtaposed "Hitler" with "PC" because in many respects, the two are opposites.

I started my own religion and we greatly fear colored or even regular lights. Lights are a sure sign of evil!! Every year myself and the three other people who comprise my union are surrounded by the devilish glow of these lights. Lights must be stopped!! Especially christmas lights! We will be handing out eye protection for a small donation of £35, so these horrific photons shall not sin your eyes! This is a great day for the sect of the anti-light religion. REJOICE!

------

duhhhhhhhhh


[edit on 7-11-2005 by Vorta]

How does Europe expect immigrants to try to intergrate into European society if they see it's this easy for them to get the British to change for them rather than them changing for the British? Christmas goes beyond being just a religious celebration and is part of British culture. Defending your culture and encouraging immigrants to take part while respecting their culture and also taking part in it is the way to go. Plus it leads to having more celebrations and that can only be a good thing

IMHO political/social correctness has gotten to the point of being absurd. Often, it seems, people go so far over the top with it as to anger and alienate different groups and interests within the community rather than encourage them to understand each other and appreciate the diversity.

Some folks just have too much time on their hands and too little sense to use it properly. Consequently, they end up taking what may have been a good idea to begin with, and may still be a good one if implemented wisely, and they twist it, distort it and beat it beyond all recognition. Then they put it in an official-sounding wrapper along with some outlandish justification, righteously shove it down everyone else's throat and tell them it's for their own good. It makes me wanna puke!

Like some others, I'm not a religious type, but none-the-less, XMas is one of my favorite times of the year. It has to do with the warmth and love and giving spirit that seems to abound. People smile a lot more around the XMas holidays, and at least for a brief time they let their guards down and allow themselves to be more accepting and understanding of others. It's the spirit of goodwill and genuine regard for others that I associate with the XMas holidays; it has nothing to do with religion. And I'll bet I'm not alone.

As far as the lights go, if they ban them, then they may as well ban XMas altogether. The lights are an integral part of the whole tradition. It creates a warm setting for the celebration, and if anything seems to encourage a feeling of closeness.

Call me insensitive if you like, but on this one I say screw political/social correctness. If we go down that road much further we'll end up losing our individuality and identities altogether and become a sterile, lifeless society of robots. Someone needs to tell the idiots on the council to go get a real job, and stop trying to ruin a good thing.

What a bunch of fools ...

[edit on 11/8/2005 by netbound]

I wonder if the movie "The Grinch Who Stole Christmas" has been broadcast or seen in the UK? If it hasn't, the Grinch sounds like a pretty good description of who is on the city council over there now taking away all signs of Christmas starting with the lights. I don't see anything wrong with using public money to pay for holiday lights. However if public money was being used to pay for displays promoting one religion, I might see a problem with lawsuit happy lawyers. It seems like city council could argue that holidays lights are needed to promote economic or business activity to get people in the Christmas buying mood. Minorities should protest this now in my opinion because anything remotely religious might be banned from getting public money in the future and the majority will be offended by PC.

Originally posted by ShakyaHeir

Originally posted by stumason
This is about tradition and the fact that this is what we have done for decades, if not well over a century.

Just because something's a tradition doesn't mean it's good to preserve that tradition. Some African countries still have a tradition of female genital mutilation, should we continue that for the sake of tradition?

To equate christmas festivities with female multilation is a very twisted way of trying to put your point across.

Just a point to note. Christmas is not all about chistianity. The festival itself is an amalgamation of many religious and pagan festivals. The following have absolutely nothing to do with Jesus Christ : Decorated trees (scandanavian pagan), yuletide logs (nordic pagan), Santa Claus (poem), Presents (St Nicholas in Holland), lights (jewish).

Christmas is probably one of the most all embracing secular celebrations there is and over zealous PC people think its offensive. It just goes to show how dumb they are!

Why don't we just get it over with and ban everything that involves someones beliefs? It's the only way this PC nonsense can go. No more christmas, no more Diwali, no more churches, no more mosques, no more headscarfs for religious purposes, no more witches at halloween, no more programs about ghosts, no more satanists, no more statements of atheism, no more spiritualism, no more "new age" religions, no more individuals.

Let's just do away with the lot and see how fun PC World is.

Or we could all just stop being idiots and learn to "get along". I won't sue a Rabbi for wearing his hat in front of me, so don't have a cow if I call this holiday "Christmas".

Slowly striping the people of their freedoms.
First turn them against religion, next against things related to the religion, then give them something new to "worship."
This is the way the world has worked for thousands of years.

The christians did it to the pagans, and now the atheists are doing it to the christians.

Absolutely ridiculous.

I want to know if any immigrants were actually offended though. Because from what I have seen, nobody even complains. Really odd, frustrated white people just take on these tasks themselves, assuming the role and saying "Well, I guess I COULD be offended", and then ruining the fun for everyone because they have no life.

It has been Christmas for 1000 years. And if you change the names, people are still going to go to church, open presents, eat turkey, and have a Christmas tree (unless Christmas trees become a symbol of cultural intolerance and are banned), so just leave it the way it is... bishes. lol. You can't really equivilate mutilation with giving gifts. The fact is... more good comes of Christmas than bad. Does anything bad really come of Christmas?

Slowly taking away the few good, fun things in life, one thing at a time. I don't know if anybody else has noticed, but Christmas is the only time of year that people actually seem happy and willing to help others. If we do away with Christmas, I guarantee the world will be a much, much worse place, if we can even survive.

And the messed up thing is that most people who celebrate Christmas don't even care about the religious portion or practice it. It's a good thing that I know marketers won't let the huge Christmas sales slip, or I would be quite scared that Christmas really might come to an end. There is far too much money involved and you will never be able to put an end to it, period. If they tell me I can't put up Christmas lights, I'm going to make the biggest friggin

"MERRY CHRISTMAS"

sign you have ever seen. If wishing people well is a hate crime, then take me away. Idiots.

The chairman of Southwold's Chamber of Trade, Dudley Clarke, said: "I was amazed that they could come up with this very stupid idea."

[edit on 8-11-2005 by Yarcofin]

I dont know if anyone's read this or not, but it seems to me there is much more than meets the eye with respect to religion vs. the state/government...I understand that this is not entirely related to the subject of Christmas lights, but I think in some ways, there are relationships to these 2 incidents that we may be seeing more things like this forthcoming. In a CNN article it seems that a Church in Los Angeles has been THREATENED by the IRS (Internal Revenue Service or Taxman for those who dont know what the agency is) that they will lose their tax status if they DONT go on record as admitting they were wrong in allowing a guest Priest (who was the former Priest at their church) speak out against The War in Iraq. Now, as long as I can EVER recall, in any religion sermon, in ANY religious institute, the Priest, Rabbi, Minister, Pastor, etc etc they have ALWAYS spoke out against war of ANY kind....here's an excerp of the Article:

Church: Anti-war sermon imperils tax status
Officials say IRS has warned church over pre-election message

Monday, November 7, 2005; Posted: 9:30 p.m. EST (02:30 GMT)


LOS ANGELES, California (AP) -- The Internal Revenue Service has warned a prominent liberal church it could lose its tax-exempt status because of an anti-war sermon a guest preacher gave on the eve of the 2004 presidential election, church officials say.

The Rev. George F. Regas did not urge parishioners at All Saints Episcopal Church in Pasadena to support either President Bush or John Kerry, but he was critical of the Iraq war and Bush's tax cuts

It leads me to question (at least in the US, i dont know about the UK), what happened to the separation between Chruch and State? This is illegal by MANY counts in the US.

Link to the Complete Article - Church: Anti-war sermon imperils tax status

To me, this is quite disturbing.

AB1

Originally posted by Yarcofin
MERRY CHRISTMAS" sign you have ever seen. If wishing people well is a hate crime, then take me away. Idiots.

[edit on 8-11-2005 by Yarcofin]

You know something, you're absolutely right...the MOST important message is exactly what you said...If being offensive means in wishing other people well, then I'm offensive in every way possible, I wish all well...white, black, oriental, middleeastern, african...It's amazing to me the ignorance and blatant "witch's cauldron" that the governmental appointed executives seem to be more than willing to stir. Im thinking that, perhaps, we're left with so FEW choices of whom to elect to what posts, that we tend to appoint the worse of two evils, hope for the best, then get angry when FROM that limited subset of choices we have enacted things we would never opt for. Perhaps the election process (for those readers who actually DO have elections) is so tainted, that it needs a review.


It's a sad state of affairs.


AB1

How do you make them PC? Put bulbs on them in the shape of the Islamic crescent or something?

I can't believe this is happening everywhere, what a crock!

Originally posted by djohnsto77
How do you make them PC? Put bulbs on them in the shape of the Islamic crescent or something?

I can't believe this is happening everywhere, what a crock!

That makes 2 of us that cant believe its happening everywhere!

This is a very very sad state of affairs if this is true. In England, they celebrate christmas and always have. Xmas lights are a TRADITION. To take them down to appease those that find them offensive (I find it hard to believe that there are many) is disgraceful. The bottom line here I suspect is that the local council is trying to shave some cash off it's budget and is running the 'non-pc' line as a way of covering it up. Non-the-less, disgraceful!