WAR: Australia Foils Terror Plot, Makes 15 Arrests

Sabre262, how were they lax? What is so lax about charging a suspected terrorist with attempted murder? How does that law not pertain to a suspected terrorist?

Explain to me the justification for holding some one without charge and for not allowing them to go before a judge. Please, enlighten me.

Originally posted by Sabre262
Maybe we should try to understand why they want to kill us,

Both the war on terror and the war on drugs are fighting problems that the United States created...

perhaps if we stop "supporting" Israel,

I think you're onto something. Our policy for the last 5 years has been "shock and awe" for everything else, we should use the same tactic with Israel. Bush should tell Sharon that if he doesn't comply with the United State's demands for a U. N. directed peace process then he'll be left high and dry, surrounded by enemies who are dying for the chance to attack.

For starters, Jerusalem should be put under U. N. control and be made a completely seperate entity from Israel or Palestine, much like Vatican city is seperate from Italy. Half the money that we give to Israel should be given to Palestine to build their economy with. The borders of Palestine should be drawn out and a real Palestinian state should be established. Any Israeli settlements within this border will not be bulldozed, but rather occupied by those who were affected the worst when their homes were demolished.

And then after that we can start addressing all the U. N. resolutions against Israel and how we should go about rectifying them.

pull our troops out of Iraq,

This one's a touchy issue since we don't know if everything will degenerate into chaos and lawlessness when we leave. But at the very least Dick Cheney should be hanged for war profiteering and George W. Bush should issue an apology to the Iraqi people and to the international community for what happened at Abu Ghraib. Bill Clinton had to apologize for lying about a BJ, George W. should at the very least apologize for the actions of our soldiers in his pet war and make absolutely clear in no uncertain terms that from here on out the Geneva conventions will be followed to a T.

Maybe then the rest of the world will lend a hand in rebuilding Iraq.

unfortuantly there are people in the world that are hateful/violent and will always find reasons to justify their violence regardless of what you do.

Some of those people might be closer to home than you think...

[edit on 8-11-2005 by ShakyaHeir]

You have voted ShakyaHeir for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month

Now if only the majority of people understood this, imagine how better the World would be. No more Middle East in turmoil.

It's nice to see that in Oz, not only are we following the US in instituting unnecessarily stringent, misguided anti-terror laws, we also have the folks coming out of the woodwork to do their subconscious duty by devolving and diverting everything into a "my political party could beat up your political party" issue in deliciously mocking tones. Maybe we should change the Liberal and Labour parties' names to Republican and Democrat. And they're right of course, people are only concerned about civil liberties because this party of idiots lost in the last election and that party of idiots won. If it were Labour instituting these laws, it would be completely different and would of course be a good thing. So for all you unaffiliated free-thinkers out there, get back in the bipartisan paradigm before you confuse people, k?...thx.

Just as a bit of clarification for those who may think a disaster was just averted thanks purely to the timely institution of the new anti-terror laws, we already had plenty of laws related to terrorism.

Here's just a couple of examples:

Australian Criminal Code Act 1995
p25 (p45 pdf)
11.5 Conspiracy
(1) A person who conspires with another person to commit an
offence punishable by imprisonment for more than 12 months,
or by a fine of 200 penalty units or more, is guilty of the offence
of conspiracy to commit that offence and is punishable as if the
offence to which the conspiracy relates had been committed.

If you are guilty of conspiring to commit a serious crime, you are guilty and may be punished the same as if you had committed the crime. But we all knew that, right? It's a legal principle common to all modern nations.

But what if you're not conspiring with anyone? What if you're just a lone Jihad nutter sitting in your mum's backyard shed, drooling over your bomb-making materials and muttering about infidels and such? Doesn't matter, you're still guilty of a crime:

Australian Criminal Code Act 1995
p105 (p125 pdf)
101.4 Possessing things connected with terrorist acts

(1) A person commits an offence if:
(a) the person possesses a thing; and
(b) the thing is connected with preparation for, the engagement
of a person in, or assistance in a terrorist act; and
(c) the person mentioned in paragraph (a) knows of the
connection described in paragraph (b).
Penalty: Imprisonment for 15 years.

(2) A person commits an offence if:
(a) the person possesses a thing; and
(b) the thing is connected with preparation for, the engagement
of a person in, or assistance in a terrorist act; and
(c) the person mentioned in paragraph (a) is reckless as to the
existence of the connection described in paragraph (b).
Penalty: Imprisonment for 10 years.

(3) A person commits an offence under subsection (1) or (2) even if
the terrorist act does not occur.

And don't fret, that was just from a quick search; there's plenty of other criminal acts where those came from with which Jihad bogeymen can be charged.

So you see, the new laws haven't prevented diddly-squat, and the suspects arrested are likely to be charged under previously enacted legislation, not the new anti-terrorism act. All the new laws have done is made it possible for you to be locked up purely based on suspicion (currently 48hrs max, give it a while and this will change), for the feds to restrict every aspect of your life and put a cattle-tracking device on you because of a suspicion, and for police to shoot you in the back if you run away. But the majority of the Australian public will assume that the recently arrested suspects were untouchable without this new legislation. That's why the media is there before-hand, and that's why these arrests were timed as they were, and if you can't see the obvious when it's staring you in the face, then you deserve to have a tracking device on your ankle because you have too much fertilizer in your shed and you look a bit too tanned. Don't come back crying when it happens. But the "Yay party X!" cheerleaders who stopped developing their critical thinking in late high school will of course lap it up as another smug political conversation topic for the next dinner-gathering.


[edit on 2005-11-8 by wecomeinpeace]

Originally posted by ImJaded

Oh and thanks to those killing the thread with the racist, ignorant comments.
Next time try reading the entire thread THEN pull down your pants to speak (type)

And please believe nobody who resides in this racist ass country is a hero of mine

LOL, who bought race into this, apart from you ? Look don't throw a tantrum because you're getting whipped

Hmm, why are people racist here ? If these people had been causcasian, you wouldn't be singing the same tune would you. I can't stand hypocrites like you

Not our fault that these terrorists are Middle Eastern

Grow up.

I'm done. Enjoy


[edit on 8-11-2005 by ImJaded]

rogue1, im a white male with blonde hair and green eyes, perhaps you'll listen to me.... We will never know if these people were terrorists because there is no compulsion for the government to adhere to due process any more. So you'll basically have to accept that these 15 men are terrorists purely on the basis that they are Middle Eastern.

Lets face it, if 15 white guys were arrested on terrorism charges and never saw the light of day or a trial there would be more people asking for some evidence. But since these guys are Middle Eastern they are guilty until shown otherwise. I dont share your unswerving faith in a bureaucratic leviathan such as a federal government to be able to lock up guilty people without the aid of a trial.

Only fools trust governments. Thats why laws are enacted so we dont have to rely on the good graces of our elected representatives. If they dont have the choice to exploit us there is no chance of them doing so (and getting away with it).

Originally posted by ImJaded
Perhaps I am alone on this here, but I refuse to believe this is "good" until WHY they were arrested is made clear and I don't mean someone just SAYING they were gonna do something. Please, spare me.
That in itself carries no weight with me, what's the big secret ? for Heavens sake, how is this now acceptable ?
I mean how do U make an arrest when what they are actually being charged for doesn't actually exist ... show us some proof of the "alleged" plot and then I'll applaud their goodworks, until then I shall remain non-committal on this and continue to disapprove our government's actions of late ... because as they stand right now, it's a load of utter garbage.

U know what this looks like to me? A plot of their own to be able to lock up an arab, for no reason at all, whenever they want, that's all. And I think they may just succeed at the rate they are going and the way the public is so accepting of ridiculuous laws such as this.
And now when these arrested men call their lawyer they can't even tell them why they are there or what they have been arrested for ... wait a second, nobody does! Isn't this great ?

It's almost like they WANT a sequel to the France riots to happen here and that seems to be about the only thing they are doing right, making the odds of that increase.

Until both cultures understand how the other thinks, there will be no end to this BS. Alot of people fail to realize they will never understand why (some of) these Muslims act the way they do with a Westernized mind ... and no I do not speak for the extremists, they can rot in hell for all I care, but even those who riot, it is out of desperation more so than just plain anger if U ask me.

I cannot express my impatience and joy at the thought of leaving this Godforsaken country.




[edit on 7-11-2005 by ImJaded]

Flights are cheap, attitudes like this are part of the probelm and not part of the solution.

Cya later, can i have your stuff?

Originally posted by subz
rogue1, im a white male with blonde hair and green eyes, perhaps you'll listen to me....

We will never know if these people were terrorists because there is no compulsion for the government to adhere to due process any more. So you'll basically have to accept that these 15 men are terrorists purely on the basis that they are Middle Eastern.

Lets face it, if 15 white guys were arrested on terrorism charges and never saw the light of day or a trial there would be more people asking for some evidence. But since these guys are Middle Eastern they are guilty until shown otherwise. I dont share your unswerving faith in a bureaucratic leviathan such as a federal government to be able to lock up guilty people without the aid of a trial.

Only fools trust governments. Thats why laws are enacted so we dont have to rely on the good graces of our elected representatives. If they dont have the choice to exploit us there is no chance of them doing so (and getting away with it).

Bet your Attitude would be different if your family or friends where killed by terrorists, and thanks to a fantastic government the likelyhood of that was severly reduced today.

Originally posted by subz
We will never know if these people were terrorists because there is no compulsion for the government to adhere to due process any more. So you'll basically have to accept that these 15 men are terrorists purely on the basis that they are Middle Eastern.

That is not true. One of these suspects shot at a police officer when he tried to arrest him. Nice upstanding guy. Another one was recorded as saying he wanted to be the first sucide bomber of the group. I do think we should wait until more is known before we say it was completely justified or unjustified but if ANY Australian government thinks they can get away with arresting innocent people without the media killing them than they better think twice. Do you really think Howard is stupid enough to risk the future of his party just so he can arrest some innocent people?

I dont share your unswerving faith in a bureaucratic leviathan such as a federal government to be able to lock up guilty people without the aid of a trial.

Yeah that's why they are in court right now and they are going to get a fair trail that the entire nation is going to scrutinize.

The first details of the charges against the 16 terror suspects were outlined in a Melbourne court today.

Victorian police had more than 240 hours of phone intercepts in which the group discussed plans to kill Australian civilians, the court heard.

Some of the group had attended military training, and they had a pooled fund of money to finance alleged plots, the court heard.

www.heraldsun.news.com.au...

[edit on 8-11-2005 by Sabre262]

Here is the Latest news, make no mistake, Australia has made no mistake in finding scum bags, its just our legal system we have to worry about now.


Terror raids foil jihad bomb plot: court
Tuesday Nov 8 19:20 AEST
Australia's biggest anti-terror operation has foiled an imminent bomb attack by a group committed to killing innocent women and children in the name of jihad, it is alleged.

At least one of 16 men charged following coordinated raids in Melbourne and Sydney was prepared to martyr himself in a suicide attack, a Melbourne court was told.

One group had undergone military training, had guns and had gathered chemicals like those used in suicide bombings on the London Underground in July, it was alleged.


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PM Howard vindicated after terror raids
Sydney terror suspects held in custody
Terror accused wanted jihad: court
Fearing a looming attack, hundreds of ASIO, federal and state police officers raided properties in the two cities early Tuesday, seizing chemicals and computers.

One suspect was shot and wounded in Sydney after opening fire on police.

Police and governments said the massive operation had prevented a potentially "catastrophic" terrorist attack.

"I'm satisfied that we have disrupted what I would regard as the final stages of a large scale terrorist attack ... here in Australia," NSW Police Commissioner Ken Moroney said.

Victorian Premier Steve Bracks said he believed police had disrupted "probably the most serious preparation for a terrorist attack that we have seen in Australia".

No potential targets were revealed, but senior police said they assumed Sydney and Melbourne were high on any hit list.

The arrests followed Prime Minister John Howard's warning last week of a potential terrorist threat, and the urgent passing of an amendment to anti-terrorism legislation that authorities said played a major part in the operation.

Previous laws had required police to name a specific target before they could act.

Sixteen men - nine in Melbourne and seven in Sydney - were charged with offences including conspiring to manufacture explosives in preparation for a terrorist act, and being members of a terrorist organisation.

Melbourne Muslim cleric Abdul Nacer Benbrika, 45, also known as Abu Bakr (Bakr), was also charged with directing the activities of a terrorist organisation.

Nine men appeared in Melbourne Magistrates' Court, where prosecutor Richard Maidment said the group had "no respect for human life".

They believed "it is permitted in certain circumstances, in pursuit of violent jihad (holy war), to kill innocent women and children", he said.

The seven charged in Sydney did not appear in court and all 16 were refused bail. No evidence was presented.

A 17th terror suspect was shot and wounded by police after opening fire on officers near a mosque at Green Valley in Sydney's west at 9am (AEDT).

A police officer was slightly wounded in the shootout, after which a bomb squad robot found a second handgun in the suspect's backpack.

The man, in his 20s, was in a stable condition under police guard in hospital, and was expected to be charged.

Australian Federal Police commissioner Mick Keelty said the operation was far from finished.

"There's a lot more work to go, this operation will continue for some months to come," he said.

The raids were the culmination of a 16-month surveillance operation and the suspects in Melbourne and Sydney were alleged to have worked together, police said.

Some of those arrested had been targeted by ASIO raids in June, said Melbourne lawyer Rob Stary, who is representing several of the men.

Victoria Police Chief Commissioner Christine Nixon said authorities acted because they were concerned an attack was imminent.

But there was no indication that next year's Commonwealth Games was a target, she said.

The group in Sydney was alleged to have been stockpiling chemicals capable of making explosives and were believed to be planning an attack, said NSW Premier Morris Iemma.

"Thankfully the police forces of this country might just have prevented a catastrophic act of terrorism in this country," added NSW Police Minister Carl Scully.

Mr Moroney drew comparisons with anti-terrorism operations in London and Madrid, which he said took place after attacks took place.

"We were not prepared to wait for an event to happen," he said.

The seven in Sydney were arrested after police executed warrants in Lakemba, Belmore, Wiley Park, Greenacre, Illawong, Punchbowl, Hoxton Park, Condell Park, Ingleburn, Belfield, Bankstown and Kemps Creek.

At least five of those arrested in Sydney were Australian citizens.

The nine from Victoria were arrested during raids in Dallas, Hoppers Crossing, Fawkner, Preston, Coburg, Yarraville, Meadow Heights and Hadfield.

Mr Stary said no materials had been seized in Victoria to indicate an imminent terrorist strike.

In Sydney, defence lawyer Adam Houda said the charges were scandalous.

"There's no evidence that terrorism was contemplated or being planned by any particular person at any particular time or at any particular place," he said.

Islamic leaders said they feared renewed hatred of Australian Muslims following the raids.

Australian Federation of Islamic Councils chief executive Amjad Mehboob said the raids had frightened Muslims, who were worried about terrorism like everyone else.

"But they are doubly concerned about the fallout," he said.

Muslim leaders in Sydney and Melbourne said hate crimes against Muslims had increased in recent weeks and feared that would escalate further as a result of the raids.

Originally posted by rogue1

Originally posted by ImJaded

Oh and thanks to those killing the thread with the racist, ignorant comments.
Next time try reading the entire thread THEN pull down your pants to speak (type)

And please believe nobody who resides in this racist ass country is a hero of mine

LOL, who bought race into this, apart from you ?

Look don't throw a tantrum because you're getting whipped

Hmm, why are people racist here ? If these people had been causcasian, you wouldn't be singing the same tune would you. I can't stand hypocrites like you

Not our fault that these terrorists are Middle Eastern

Grow up.

I'm done. Enjoy

[edit on 8-11-2005 by ImJaded]

uhhh none of that was for U ("Oh and thanks to those killing the thread with the racist & ignorant comments.")

Originally posted by NumberCruncher
Here is the Latest news, make no mistake, Australia has made no mistake in finding scum bags, its just our legal system we have to worry about now.


Terror raids foil jihad bomb plot: court
Tuesday Nov 8 19:20 AEST
Australia's biggest anti-terror operation has foiled an imminent bomb attack by a group committed to killing innocent women and children in the name of jihad, it is alleged.

That was all anybody should need to read - "it was alleged." Please.
That in itself means everything stated before it is not true. It's right up there with ASSuming.

You guys may want to familiarize yourselves with the rules here too

Ahh let me just try out this ignore function, never thought I'd have to use it but hey there's a first for everything right ?




[edit on 8-11-2005 by ImJaded]

Australian citizen doesnt make you australian.
If you were to do the same thing in another country the same would
happen to you.

Stoned or be-headed in middle east country

IMJADED


Seen as you are such an expert can you please define for us the difference between "Holy War" and "Jihad"


If it isnt to personal , how do you define yourself in one word in this world?


thanks for your time Imjaded.

Notice the dust hasn't even settled on these raids and already all over the corporate media the cry is, "Raids vindicate Howard!", "PM Howard vindicated after terror raids!!". Pfft! What a crock. When the new laws were being rushed through, I predicted that there would be an attack or arrests made to convince the masses, and whaddyaknow. You're being manipulated, folks - problem, reaction, solution. The laws already in place for years are sufficient to prevent and to punish any crime in Australia that you can name. Just because you suddenly start calling mass murder "terrorism" doesn't mean that you need to start eroding civil rights such as due process in order to counter it. Roll over and take it up the Khyber Pass, Australia...that's it...nice and easy.

Originally posted by wecomeinpeace
Notice the dust hasn't even settled on these raids and already all over the corporate media the cry is, "Raids vindicate Howard!", "PM Howard vindicated after terror raids!!". Pfft! What a crock. When the new laws were being rushed through, I predicted that there would be an attack or arrests made to convince the masses, and whaddyaknow. You're being manipulated, folks - problem, reaction, solution. The laws already in place for years are sufficient to prevent and to punish any crime in Australia that you can name. Just because you suddenly start calling mass murder "terrorism" doesn't mean that you need to start eroding civil rights such as due process in order to counter it. Roll over and take it up the Khyber Pass, Australia...that's it...nice and easy.

Agree totally Gov sucks

Originally posted by wecomeinpeace
Notice the dust hasn't even settled on these raids and already all over the corporate media the cry is, "Raids vindicate Howard!", "PM Howard vindicated after terror raids!!". Pfft! What a crock. When the new laws were being rushed through, I predicted that there would be an attack or arrests made to convince the masses, and whaddyaknow. You're being manipulated, folks - problem, reaction, solution. The laws already in place for years are sufficient to prevent and to punish any crime in Australia that you can name. Just because you suddenly start calling mass murder "terrorism" doesn't mean that you need to start eroding civil rights such as due process in order to counter it. Roll over and take it up the Khyber Pass, Australia...that's it...nice and easy.

Disagree 100pc you and the sick pup posting after you need to sit down together and have long hard words with each other.

theres more than enough evidence to prove that terrorists want you dead for being westerners or/of judo/christian heritage than random killing.

Can you not see it?


Prior to Islamofasicm our legal syatem really only played to 19th century crime, it was so overdue and still need's improving to deal with the dramas of the 21st century crime.

Originally posted by wecomeinpeace
It's nice to see that in Oz, not only are we following the US in instituting unnecessarily stringent, misguided anti-terror laws, we also have the folks coming out of the woodwork to do their subconscious duty by devolving and diverting everything into a "my political party could beat up your political party" issue in deliciously mocking tones. Maybe we should change the Liberal and Labour parties' names to Republican and Democrat. And they're right of course, people are only concerned about civil liberties because this party of idiots lost in the last election and that party of idiots won. If it were Labour instituting these laws, it would be completely different and would of course be a good thing. So for all you unaffiliated free-thinkers out there, get back in the bipartisan paradigm before you confuse people, k?...thx.

Just as a bit of clarification for those who may think a disaster was just averted thanks purely to the timely institution of the new anti-terror laws, we already had plenty of laws related to terrorism.

Here's just a couple of examples:

Australian Criminal Code Act 1995
p25 (p45 pdf)
11.5 Conspiracy
(1) A person who conspires with another person to commit an
offence punishable by imprisonment for more than 12 months,
or by a fine of 200 penalty units or more, is guilty of the offence
of conspiracy to commit that offence and is punishable as if the
offence to which the conspiracy relates had been committed.

If you are guilty of conspiring to commit a serious crime, you are guilty and may be punished the same as if you had committed the crime. But we all knew that, right? It's a legal principle common to all modern nations.

But what if you're not conspiring with anyone? What if you're just a lone Jihad nutter sitting in your mum's backyard shed, drooling over your bomb-making materials and muttering about infidels and such? Doesn't matter, you're still guilty of a crime:

Australian Criminal Code Act 1995
p105 (p125 pdf)
101.4 Possessing things connected with terrorist acts

(1) A person commits an offence if:
(a) the person possesses a thing; and
(b) the thing is connected with preparation for, the engagement
of a person in, or assistance in a terrorist act; and
(c) the person mentioned in paragraph (a) knows of the
connection described in paragraph (b).
Penalty: Imprisonment for 15 years.

(2) A person commits an offence if:
(a) the person possesses a thing; and
(b) the thing is connected with preparation for, the engagement
of a person in, or assistance in a terrorist act; and
(c) the person mentioned in paragraph (a) is reckless as to the
existence of the connection described in paragraph (b).
Penalty: Imprisonment for 10 years.

(3) A person commits an offence under subsection (1) or (2) even if
the terrorist act does not occur.

And don't fret, that was just from a quick search; there's plenty of other criminal acts where those came from with which Jihad bogeymen can be charged.

So you see, the new laws haven't prevented diddly-squat, and the suspects arrested are likely to be charged under previously enacted legislation, not the new anti-terrorism act. All the new laws have done is made it possible for you to be locked up purely based on suspicion (currently 48hrs max, give it a while and this will change), for the feds to restrict every aspect of your life and put a cattle-tracking device on you because of a suspicion, and for police to shoot you in the back if you run away. But the majority of the Australian public will assume that the recently arrested suspects were untouchable without this new legislation. That's why the media is there before-hand, and that's why these arrests were timed as they were, and if you can't see the obvious when it's staring you in the face, then you deserve to have a tracking device on your ankle because you have too much fertilizer in your shed and you look a bit too tanned. Don't come back crying when it happens. But the "Yay party X!" cheerleaders who stopped developing their critical thinking in late high school will of course lap it up as another smug political conversation topic for the next dinner-gathering.


[edit on 2005-11-8 by wecomeinpeace]

/Yawned 3/4ths through your post, get with te 21st century, bet you attitude would be different if the "howard" governemet hadnt saved one of your blood or friends from these Heathans.

Cracks me up, cant please you people, Australia truly is the luckiest country on earth........ for now

Originally posted by NumberCruncher
theres more than enough evidence to prove that terrorists want you dead for being westerners or/of judo/christian heritage than random killing. Can you not see it?

Prior to Islamofasicm our legal syatem really only played to 19th century crime, it was so overdue and still need's improving to deal with the dramas of the 21st century crime.

The law does not care if you commit mass murder by blowing up a bus because you are crazy, because you hate the government, or because you hate Christians. You will still go to prison for life, and you can still be locked up for life if you are caught before you had a chance to carry out the act. The only difference between "mass murder" and "terrorism" is the ideology and the motive behind it. Yet it sounds as if you are advocating for a complete overhaul and restructuring of the basic tenets of our system of justice and human rights because of one particular ideology. Do I have that right?

If you are afraid enough to feel that Australia's current laws are insufficient to provide protection for you "in the 21st century", then what exactly are you advocating for here? Do you propose racial profiling? Do you propose armbands with a crescent moon on them for Muslims? Should we segregate Muslims into separate regions? Should we institute the death penalty in Australia for terrorist acts? What about passports with your religion stamped on them, and a separate line at the airport for Muslims? Should we negate the need for a trial by court if the charge is terrorism? I'm interested to hear what you would like to see happen.

[edit on 2005-11-8 by wecomeinpeace]

Originally posted by shots

Originally posted by djohnsto77
If they were going to do anything soon, as claimed, it's been pretty well foiled IMHO since they'll be in jail awaiting trial instead of setting off bombs.

Yeah better safe then sorry and this may have saved some the lifes of some of our Austrailian members. Why some people say the war on terrorists will not work is beyond me:shk:

We could stamp out all terrorism, but at what cost?
If we are searched every 15 minutes to make sure we dont have weapons or bombs, then we are safe, but not free.

If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
James Madison

Madison was right, we are losing our freedoms to be safe from the "enemy"

The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either.
Benjamin Franklin

Originally posted by TheShroudOfMemphis

They HAVE NOT been charged with planning a terrorist attack.
They HAVE BEEN charged with being part of a terrorist group but the terrorist groups name and the link has not been devulged.

So they weren't conspiring against the government, they were part of an organization.
So now it's illegal to be a member of the KKK? the Black Panthers?, the NAACP? the ATF? Boy Scouts?
Where does it end?

[The Constitution preserves] the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation...(where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms.
---James Madison,The Federalist Papers, No. 46.

Freedom comes with trust at the price of security.

I'll bet every person who reads this knows how to make at least 1 type of explosive or posion.
Congrats!, you're all terrorists, be prepared to be searched.

[T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people.
---Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

By the people. For the people. Of the people.
United we stand, apart we fall.
Terrorism is real, but those in power are using it as a way to get more power.

example,
We needed to fight the comunists.
We needed to goto the moon to beat the Russians.
We need to fight the terrorists to save the planet.

All of these events inspired a great deal of new weapons technology as well as required a great deal of legislation to "defend" us from the enemy within.
Everything from war detering nukes, to satellites that kill other satellites.
These three major events in American history have been used as an excuse to take power from the people and give it to the government, where it does not belong.

My proof?
It has happened.
We have massive stock piles of Nukes, moon rocks, and are currently on foreign soil fighting a war that can not win because when we kill 1 man, 2 more replace him out of hatrid toward us for killing their friend/brother/father/cousin/leader.

The end of freedom is near.
All your transactions will be watched via electronic currency
All your moves will be monitored via cameras
Already these are happening in major cities.

Like it or not, we are living the final days before 1984.
Before you say we're not, go read the book, because anyone who has read it knows that it is coming true.