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Will there be total Jihad in Europe?

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posted on Nov, 7 2005 @ 07:16 PM
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Originally posted by Agit8dChop
Im sitting in paris and i can tell all this is getting out of hand quickly. The first fatality occured today? westerners and AMERICANS are being urged to AVOID the areas and its growing by the night.
I cant even catch the train to the airport because it goes through the district of riots.

if the police get physical and start really hitting them hard it is going to escelate. we have seen this riot extend 10 days hoping the people doing this cr@p will stop but it hasnt.

This could be the end of peaceful paris.



I posted this in a related thread, but it is even more approprate here.

For all you believers in peace at any price, this is just the latest historical example that appeasment does not work.

The French have bent over backwards for the muslims - even selling illegal arms to saddam before the war. And letting muslim immigrants pour into their country, no questions asked.

So, what has this gained the french?

Answer: the "honor" of being the first western european country attacked by the followers of the so-called "religion of peace". They'll take on the the targets that they view to be the softest first. France, your military and political reputations may be coming back to haunt you.

Appeasment does not work- ever




posted on Nov, 7 2005 @ 07:20 PM
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Originally posted by dbates

Originally posted by devilwasp
Texan?



"I'm from Texas, what planet are you from?"


[edit on 7-11-2005 by dbates]



LOL


as a natural born Texan i must say thats hilarious!

as 2 stay on topic
i dont think these riots are jihad but maybe im wrong

i think its because they are poor and angery about how rich people act snobbish 2 them and then have cops beat them up for getting mad about it

edit :::
how does the insurance work?
Who gets insurance money for the cars burning? and what happens to the insurance company?

[edit on 7-11-2005 by muzzleflash]



posted on Nov, 7 2005 @ 07:29 PM
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Originally posted by centurion1211
For all you believers in peace at any price, this is just the latest historical example that appeasment does not work.

The French have bent over backwards for the muslims - even selling illegal arms to saddam before the war. And letting muslim immigrants pour into their country, no questions asked.


- What are you on about?

What "peace at any price"?

Do you really think those young men living in ghettoised slums with little could care less what France sold Saddam, "appeasement" or "peace at any price"?

That has nothing to do with what is going on.


Answer: the "honor" of being the first western european country attacked by the followers of the so-called "religion of peace".


- The religion of the rioters is not the point of this, why are you pretending otherwise?

When people in the USA periodically riot is their religion the first thing you think of or do people talk about lving conditions and the more sane possibilities of what started the troubles?

Do you know the French Muslim leaders have publicly and strongly condemned this trouble?


They'll take on the the targets that they view to be the softest first.


- .....and what?
Work up their way up to all out war with the French military?

That's some imagination you have there.



France, your military and political reputations may be coming back to haunt you.

Appeasment does not work- ever


- Interesting, so you seem think the ridiculous cartoon view some Americans have of the French "military and political reputations" is somehow now relevant and haunting the French in France, hmmm?

How does that work?

Do you think the people in the worst areas of Paris were waiting for the French reputation to sink to a certain low point in the US with certain Americans?


[edit on 7-11-2005 by sminkeypinkey]



posted on Nov, 7 2005 @ 08:12 PM
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Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
- The religion of the rioters is not the point of this, why are you pretending otherwise?

When people in the USA periodically riot is their religion the first thing you think of or do people talk about lving conditions and the more sane possibilities of what started the troubles?

Do you know the French Muslim leaders have publicly and strongly condemned this trouble?


Sminkey, I think this is where most people dissagree.

The religion of the rioters is EXACTLY the point of these riots.

The complaints that they make are that they can't get jobs because they are Muslim, and there for feel the need to riot.

The proof is in the pudding in this case:

There are many poor impoverished people in France. Yet the only ones rioting are the MUSLIMS, and they do so because they claim because they are muslim they are being segregated/held down/what ever.

When people start rioting, you look for a common thread. In this case, simply being poor isn't it, because there are plenty of poor people from all other parts of the population that are not rioting at all.

It is decidedly about religion here.



posted on Nov, 7 2005 @ 08:35 PM
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Originally posted by American Mad Man

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
- The religion of the rioters is not the point of this, why are you pretending otherwise?

When people in the USA periodically riot is their religion the first thing you think of or do people talk about lving conditions and the more sane possibilities of what started the troubles?

Do you know the French Muslim leaders have publicly and strongly condemned this trouble?


Sminkey, I think this is where most people dissagree.

The religion of the rioters is EXACTLY the point of these riots.


this is false, they are NOT all Muslim my friend. THIS is where most people are wrong.

back to the topic ... no this will not cause Jihad, as was stated in an earlier post

"An attack on Mecca/Medina would most likely cause it."

Not some pissed off kids mad at the French government - simply, this has nothing to do with Islam or a Jihad, get a grip people



posted on Nov, 7 2005 @ 08:39 PM
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Agit8dChop: Please keep us informed here - I haven't been hearing much new news.



posted on Nov, 8 2005 @ 04:54 AM
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Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Wasp, did you just refer to us ALL as Texans?

I shall make it a point to track you down and punch you out at the next ATS Convention!

Fine...I'll just unleash my secret weapon....I'll tell the nearest england fan that you said england was a pos.
We'll see who gets out alive after that...



posted on Nov, 8 2005 @ 05:32 AM
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one England fan here, and let me tell you that the American view of the English being all proper men in bowler hats drinking tea is far from it. I'd like to see this guy whos gonna "punch someone out" put in the middle of an estate in leeds.
I'm just messing, i'm just trying to point out that American's in general (not all) have stereotyped views of other cultures. I.E. British food is bad, the French dont bathe, etc.

Ill also point out this: All the American friends of mine that visit England love fish and chips and miss them when they go back!



posted on Nov, 8 2005 @ 06:37 AM
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To hell with the French. They were nowhere during Iraq, why should we give two halves of a #e when they have a crisis. Yeah, may have been posted already but not by me.

If it wasn't for us Americans and my Grandfathers' people, those of the United Kingdom, they'd be speaking German nowadays.



posted on Nov, 8 2005 @ 06:49 AM
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the title of this topic:


Will there be total Jihad in Europe?


Clearly shows the thread started has not even the slightest idea about what going on,...cause it's a fact that these are not MUSLIM related riots !! No matter how much you would want it to be, sorry to dissapoint you rascist and Islamofobic people here.



posted on Nov, 8 2005 @ 06:51 AM
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Originally posted by Dero
If it wasn't for us Americans and my Grandfathers' people, those of the United Kingdom, they'd be speaking German nowadays.


And so would America and the rest of the World, eventually.

Whats your point?



posted on Nov, 8 2005 @ 06:55 AM
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Originally posted by Dero
To hell with the French. They were nowhere during Iraq, why should we give two halves of a #e when they have a crisis.


- .......and here we come to the centre of the truth of what this is really all about for so many Americans here.

I'm sure you didn't mean to burst the balloon but you surely did with that comment.


If it wasn't for us Americans and my Grandfathers' people, those of the United Kingdom, they'd be speaking German nowadays.


- Surprise surprise, some irrelevant ridiculous and self-congratulatory BS to round things off, well done.



posted on Nov, 8 2005 @ 07:07 AM
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You're welcome. I'm proud of my families' service. Sad to see yours had none, or worse, are a liberal who believes in "personal rights" than whats best for your country. The sooner the world learns that the American Way is the Right Way, the better. God forbid Chicks, Money, Booze and Guns are hated by the Pinkos of the world.

[edit on 8-11-2005 by Dero]



posted on Nov, 8 2005 @ 07:10 AM
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Originally posted by American Mad Man
The religion of the rioters is EXACTLY the point of these riots.


- No it isn't.

It is however quite clearly and sadly the only point some here are in the least bit interested in.


There are many poor impoverished people in France.


- Yes the world is full of the haves and have nots.

Stick them together in close proximity, ignore the poor part of the equation and you will usually have big trouble at some point, regardless of the religion or whether it only happens from time to time and they don't all do it everywhere all the time.


Yet the only ones rioting are the MUSLIMS, and they do so because they claim because they are muslim they are being segregated/held down/what ever.


- Where did you get told they were all muslim?


When people start rioting, you look for a common thread. In this case, simply being poor isn't it


- That just makes no sense.

The one true common factor is their being on the poor end of the scale (a far far more relevant 'link' than trying to pretend that they are all devout and practising Muslims and that their religion is the big linking factor).

You really really want to believe this, don't you?


there are plenty of poor people from all other parts of the population that are not rioting at all.


- I think you'll find the history is that most ethnic groups (pretty much everywhere) if repressed for a sufficient length of time have all rebelled at some point or another.

Seriously AMM but I find that a really lame arguement.

Many people in the UK were dirt poor once upon a time and funnily enough they too used to riot from time to time.....just as has happened periodically in every 'western' country (with poor immigrant and indigenous peoples).


It is decidedly about religion here.


- No it isn't.
It is about living conditions and standards.

Religion is simply a pointless diversion for those who would rather not address the issues of gross inequality and the latent racism that denies many many non-white people life chances in many/most/all western countries.

[edit on 8-11-2005 by sminkeypinkey]



posted on Nov, 8 2005 @ 07:14 AM
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Originally posted by Dero
You're welcome. I'm proud of my families' service.


- Good for you, pity you abuse it so horribly just to trash other people and other countries.

It's rather sad and pathetic in fact.


Sad to see yours had none


- Quite wrong actually, mine goes back 4 generations that I know of.

Pity you assumed......you know what that did to you don't you?



or worse, are a liberal who believes in "personal rights" than whats best for your country.


- You're just ranting nonsense now, I suggest you go for a lie down in a darkened room until you calm down a little.


The sooner the world learns that the American Way is the Right Way, the better.


-


Naaaaa, you can keep those 'special' attitudes all for yourself matey, enjoy.
You sound so happy in your fascism.

[edit on 8-11-2005 by sminkeypinkey]



posted on Nov, 8 2005 @ 07:18 AM
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Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
This all, IMO, about exclusion, brutalisation and violence.

Immigrants (but more usually 2nd or 3rd generation naturalised citizens of the country they are living in) in many parts of Europe feel excluded, brutalised and many regularly experience violence directed against them.

Not all, obviously, but enough in some cities and towns to now make the news as the violence occurs each night for this and last week.


I have to agree with you here. This from the opening post:

There are more than 12 million people of Muslim origin in Western Europe, roughly half of them in France. Many have adapted easily and well to European life. But constant tensions and deep resentments do remain, especially among those left behind in blighted communities that others managed to escape. In a report issued just days before the violence broke out, the French government counted 751 neighborhoods deemed "sensitive urban zones." Most of the people there have roots in Africa and Islam. Average unemployment is 21 percent, more than twice the national average, and rising. Among men under 25, the rate jumps to 36 percent. Disconnected from their past in the Muslim world and uncertain about their future in Europe, they've come to see themselves as citizens of nothing but "Neuf-trois," 93, the postal code for the outer edges of the Paris urban area.

Angry young men, too much time on their hands. No job to go to in the morning, why not mix up a few Molotov's instead.

This is not about religion at all. There will be those who try to make it a religious matter, however.

A couple of things caught my eye, however:

1, When are they going to run out of cars to burn? Every night, it's hundreds of cars burning. Why haven't they moved them?

2. From the original post again:

But by using cell-phone text messages to coordinate their incendiary flash-mobs, rioters in the city's suburbs managed to burn thousands of cars, as well as buses, warehouses and stores.

Unemployed, disaffected youths running around with cell phones. It must be nice to be broke and own a cell phone. Or is a cell phone part of the French entitlement packages?

Or maybe, somebody from the outside is giving them the cell phones...





posted on Nov, 8 2005 @ 07:21 AM
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Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
- The religion of the rioters is not the point of this, why are you pretending otherwise?


Hmm well it is. As most of the young people are rioting because they feel victimised because of their religion.
" They won't hire me because I'm a muslim ", something I've heard from a few youths over there.
So YES, religion is at the very core of this issue.



posted on Nov, 8 2005 @ 07:25 AM
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Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
Religion is simply a pointless diversion for those who would rather not address the issues of gross inequality and the latent racism that denies many many non-white people life chances in many/most/all western countries.


Do you think life is better for non-muslims living in muslim countries?
Lets not put all of the fault on western countries ok?

In spite of it's faults, Europe is still less racist than many/most/all muslim countries.

[edit on 8-11-2005 by AceOfBase]



posted on Nov, 8 2005 @ 08:19 AM
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People can we really boil this down to simplistic good guy/bad guy politics. Oh it's those evil muslims trying to take over the world or it's those nasty westerners with their unbridled racism.

It's more complex than that surely and if you took Islam out of the equation there still exists enough resentement and anger to carry on fueling these clashes, sure there's a possibility that militants now have a hand in keeping this conflict bubbling away but I doubt they were in at it's inception.

Both sides of the divide have their point, both have their part to play in creating the conditions that brought about this situation.



posted on Nov, 8 2005 @ 09:50 AM
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Originally posted by ubermunche
People can we really boil this down to simplistic good guy/bad guy politics. Oh it's those evil muslims trying to take over the world or it's those nasty westerners with their unbridled racism.


i'd replace [racism] with globalization-corporatism-unrestrained capitalism.
-->all which cannot abide unproductiveness



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