Will there be total Jihad in Europe?

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Nov. 14, 2005 issue - Word of the deaths spread quickly through Clichy-sous-Bois, a grim collection of housing projects an hour by train and bus from the center of Paris. Two teenage boys had been electrocuted while trying to hide near a transformer the night of Oct. 27. Rumor said they were running from police. Soon, dozens of angry young men came from the soulless high-rises looking for cops to fight and cars to burn on streets named, as it happens, after heroes of French culture: boulevard Emile Zola, allee Albert Camus, rue Picasso. Dead white men. "It's Baghdad here," the rioters shouted. Night after night last week, rage spread through the ghettos that ring Paris, then beyond to every corner of France. When a tear-gas canister exploded near a mosque in Clichy-sous-Bois on the fourth violent evening, a new cry went up. "Now this is war," said one of the vandals. Others cried "jihad."

It was neither, in fact, and Paris—the capital known to tourists—was not burning. But by using cell-phone text messages to coordinate their incendiary flash-mobs, rioters in the city's suburbs managed to burn thousands of cars, as well as buses, warehouses and stores. More than 200 people were arrested and there were many injuries, some serious, even if by last weekend no one had been killed. (The Los Angeles riots of 1992, by contrast, took the lives of more than 50 people.) What really shook the French government, and badly, was its inability to contain the metastasizing anger. Decades of French policies intended to force the integration of immigrants and their children—and children's children—into French society had failed, and no Plan B was apparent. Fears also grew that in the age of terror, rage like this could swell the ranks of radical Islamists in the heart of Europe.

The first and most obvious casualty was the reputation of French Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy. He's been angling for the presidency in 2007, posturing as France's most confident can-do politician. During the first days of violence, Sarkozy denounced the gangs burning cars as "scum" and told them in effect to bring it on. They did with a vengeance, and didn't stop. Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin, who is Sarkozy's main rival, reined him in publicly. Prodded by President Jacques Chirac, the two of them eventually tried to show a united front behind the slogan "Firmness and justice." That didn't work either.

The greatest challenge in the days to come is to keep the violent fringe from winning even wider sympathy. There are more than 12 million people of Muslim origin in Western Europe, roughly half of them in France. Many have adapted easily and well to European life. But constant tensions and deep resentments do remain, especially among those left behind in blighted communities that others managed to escape. In a report issued just days before the violence broke out, the French government counted 751 neighborhoods deemed "sensitive urban zones." Most of the people there have roots in Africa and Islam. Average unemployment is 21 percent, more than twice the national average, and rising. Among men under 25, the rate jumps to 36 percent. Disconnected from their past in the Muslim world and uncertain about their future in Europe, they've come to see themselves as citizens of nothing but "Neuf-trois," 93, the postal code for the outer edges of the Paris urban area.

dont know if it could come but from wat we are seeing i would say dat if the French dont do somthing about dis along with other European countries dis could go out of hand. u may say America should not be involve for its European problem but remember dat many terrorists who went to Afghanistan as well as Iraq were from Europe and Al Qaeda and other groups linked to it have taken advantage of Muslim immigrants or those who are born with parents who came to Europe from Muslim countries who have been alienated and have no life. dis is the danger dat i see in my view.

Originally posted by deltaboy
u may say America should not be involve for its European problem ...

You're damn right the US shouldn't get involved. The last three times the US intervened in Europe in conflicts between christians and muslims (although religion was not really the issue, neither as in France), the US consistently sided with the muslims. The civil war in former Yugoslavia, the Kosovo conflict and the conflict in Macedonia, in one of which the US allied itself with a terrorist group, the UCK.

[edit on 7-11-2005 by Simon666]

Why would the US get involved???

I mean, yeah we are all super/hyper-powery and all, but come on...

The Euros aren't completely backwards and clueless.

In all seriousness though, these riots ARE spreading, and I only hope that these people can be brought to justice before more people are hurt.

Originally posted by Simon666

Originally posted by deltaboy
the US consistently sided with the muslims.
[edit on 7-11-2005 by Simon666]

Thank you. You just proved a very good point that the rest of the world needs to recognize.

It's not about religion, but about bad government.

[edit on 7-11-2005 by crisko]

The U.S. isn't going to send troops to France. Despite all the jokes, France has its own competent military -- they just haven't chosen to use them yet in this crisis. I think if it continues though, they'll have to. The police are already stretched to their limits and beginning to demand it themselves.

Im sitting in paris and i can tell all this is getting out of hand quickly. The first fatality occured today? westerners and AMERICANS are being urged to AVOID the areas and its growing by the night.
I cant even catch the train to the airport because it goes through the district of riots.

if the police get physical and start really hitting them hard it is going to escelate. we have seen this riot extend 10 days hoping the people doing this cr@p will stop but it hasnt.

This could be the end of peaceful paris.


My hostel is right in the central district of a muslim populated area, i can see how easily this has gotten out of hand/.

Agit8dChop:

Yikes! Be careful out there, the riots don't seem to be settling down. Maybe its a good time to hop over to brussels or italy for a vacation (tho you are in a hostel, so probably on vacation?).

Stay Safe!

MAybe the current leaders need this as they are having a rough time with the voters - It'll get to the point when good old jacques will step in and crush it. Then look good again in the eyes of the voters.

A total Jihad is pretty much unthinkable, if invading Iraq and supporting Israel doesnt cause riots then nothing can.

Originally posted by Uncle Joe
A total Jihad is pretty much unthinkable, if invading Iraq and supporting Israel doesnt cause riots then nothing can.

O great! I was wondering how long it would take for someone to Blame Bush for the riots in France. Maybe you didn't out-right come out and say that but I can read your mind. I hear it was Pres. Bush's fault that the Germans invaded France as well. It's just hard to see because the cover-up is so well done.

Originally posted by Uncle Joe
A total Jihad is pretty much unthinkable, if invading Iraq and supporting Israel doesnt cause riots then nothing can.

An attack on Mecca/Medina would most likely cause it.

No Jihad on Europe though, Imams across Europe are condemning this riots.
Not all of the rioters are Muslim, they are just using the death of these 2 kids to to use violence against their own problems.

Originally posted by dbates

Originally posted by Uncle Joe
A total Jihad is pretty much unthinkable, if invading Iraq and supporting Israel doesnt cause riots then nothing can.

O great! I was wondering how long it would take for someone to Blame Bush for the riots in France. Maybe you didn't out-right come out and say that but I can read your mind. I hear it was Pres. Bush's fault that the Germans invaded France as well. It's just hard to see because the cover-up is so well done.

Relax mate, what on earth set you off?

Did i mention bush? No. Get over yourself, im from England, we also invaded Iraq and didnt see any 'jihad' nonsense, that was the only point i was making. No anti bush stuff, just pointing out that if a European country can invade a Muslim country and not see Jihad a few riots is not going to do it.

Sorry if I didnt make myself very clear, but there was no reason to fly off the handle like that.

[edit on 7-11-2005 by Uncle Joe]

Originally posted by Uncle Joe
Go sit down and be quiet for ten minutes.

Okay, ten minutes is up.

All right, I'll retract my point, but I'm sure the connection has already been made by some. England doesn not have the same immigration policies that France has so I don't think you would have the same problems there despite being more involved in the War in Iraq. Also Tony Blair wouldn't stand for all this rioting and burning.

[edit on 7-11-2005 by dbates]

The riots don't seem to be acts of Muslim extremism but of economic frustration.

Allowing more immigrants than you can actually provide jobs for is probably a bad idea.

Originally posted by dbates


Okay, ten minutes is up.

All right, I'll retract my point, but I'm sure the connection has already been made by some. England doesn not have the same immigration policies that France has so I don't think you would have the same problems there despite being more involved in the War in Iraq. Also Tony Blair wouldn't stand for all this rioting and burning.

[edit on 7-11-2005 by dbates]

England has 0 policies outside its borders.
The UK on the other hand does, please refrain from ignoring the other 3 parts of the country...

Sorry, bout that. Here in the U.S. England, Great Britian, and United Kingdom are almost synonymous. No offence or attempt to leave others out is intended.

Originally posted by dbates
Sorry, bout that. Here in the U.S. England, Great Britian, and United Kingdom are almost synonymous. No offence or attempt to leave others out is intended.

Yeah I knnow, mabye I should start exchanging the favour?
Texan?

Originally posted by devilwasp
Texan?

Obvious right? Just see my location. Best compliment I've had all day Now don't start calling me a Yankee, because that only encompasses people that don't know what brisket is, and have no appreciation for fried okra.

"I'm from Texas, what planet are you from?"


[edit on 7-11-2005 by dbates]

Originally posted by dbates
Now don't start calling me a Yankee, because that only encompasses people that don't know what brisket is,

Hey, we love brisket!

and have no appreciation for fried okra.

OK, got me there -- yuck!

Originally posted by dbates
Obvious right? Just see my location. Best compliment I've had all day

Lol

Now don't start calling me a Yankee, because that only encompasses people that don't know what brisket is, and have no appreciation for fried okra.

Lol ok yan- i mean texan