China now will be able to track U.S. submarines

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posted on Nov, 5 2005 @ 10:56 AM
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Four arrested in Los Angeles connected to a Chinese spy ring. I know one must keep his or her enemies close, but to sit back in arrogance and believe that the United States is totally superior and nobody would dare go to war with us is completely moronic in my opinion. We might have superior technology although I don’t think we are vastly superior to the Chinese, but that means nothing if you got the skinny on battle plans, codes and the ability to track our freakin submarines. I believe it’s inevitable that China will attempt to take Taiwan and we will go to war with them over it.




U.S. intelligence and security officials said the case remains under investigation but that it could prove to be among the most damaging spy cases since the 1985 one of John A. Walker Jr., who passed Navy communication codes to Moscow for 22 years.
The Los Angeles spy ring has operated since 1990 and has funneled technology and military secrets to China in the form of documents and computer disks, officials close to the case said.
The ring was led by Chi Mak and his wife, Rebecca Laiwah Chiu, along with Mr. Chi's brother, Tai Wang Mak, and his wife, Fuk Heung Li, officials said.
Key compromises uncovered so far include sensitive data on Aegis battle management systems that are the core of U.S. Navy destroyers and cruisers.
China covertly obtained the Aegis technology and earlier this year deployed its first Aegis warship, code-named Magic Shield, intelligence officials have said.
The Chinese also obtained sensitive data on U.S. submarines, including classified details related to the new Virginia-class attack submarines.
Officials said based on a preliminary assessment, China now will be able to track U.S. submarines, a compromise that potentially could be devastating if the United States enters a conflict with China in defending Taiwan.

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This is why I don’t understand why people are so uptight about America securing its “dominance” or its “want” to change the structure of global politics and economics. I find it interesting that if someone were a top salesman or an actor or in any position of status for that matter, they can always see being the top dog is rough and a lot of people want to see you fall, but never can this be related on a global scale.




posted on Nov, 5 2005 @ 11:12 AM
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Obviously a major failure in whoever gave these people top security access in the first place.A sign that China seeks to gain technology through espionage and gain an advantage in nullifying as much as possible US technological superiority.

[edit on 5-11-2005 by bmdefiant]



posted on Nov, 5 2005 @ 11:18 AM
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If this is all true, the damage caused is far higher than what most of the press seems to be making it out to be....

Can't they just change the codes or something?



posted on Nov, 5 2005 @ 11:25 AM
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I don’t think it’s easy to just change codes. I’m not a military expert by any means, but if someone has been able to track our submarines or decipher our codes then who knows what information they could have heard or gathered. It would almost be a complete overhaul in strategy in my opinion. They could have tracked routine patrol routes and war exercises among other things. Not only that if they have technical data on or submarines or ships they can assess structural weak points and match/improve upon our technology.



posted on Nov, 5 2005 @ 11:31 AM
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OMG US spend billions on these techs and wat China have to do is juz send a few spies?

They have been operating for 15 years...wow...they managed it. China is really proving itself to be the King of espionage.

War with China is very realistic and every information they got about US weapon systems mean a lot about the outcome of the war.



posted on Nov, 5 2005 @ 12:02 PM
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The only thing that would allow the US to win a war against China is superior technology. If we lose that edge, then we're pretty much screwed.

The FBI should set up a special task force to investigate, because this stuff is serious. I really woulnd't like to see the Chinese developing stealth bombers.



posted on Nov, 5 2005 @ 02:46 PM
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This is really scary. The potential loss of life as a result of this information being passed on to the Chinese could be incredible. In a future conflict over Taiwan, this information could be the difference between victory and the United States falling under the control of Communist China.

It is stories like these that lead me to believe that the death penalty must be put back on the table and seriously considered in such cases. For spies these days the rewards seem to far outweigh the risks of just being jailed. I think those who knowingly jeopardise the lives of the United States' military as well as its civilians should have their lives taken in returnm, if found guilty.

Our submarines play a vital role in a potential nuclear conflict. If they are able to be discovered, tracked and ultimately destroyed, there is a huge potential for millions of Americans to lose their lives as a result. This cannot be tolerated by our government anymore, in anyway, shape or form.



posted on Nov, 5 2005 @ 03:44 PM
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This is absolutely ridicules, earlier this year the FBI reported that repeated attempts of hacking DOD computers were coming from china, and now this? Not to mention the Los Alamos fiasco. We have to either start protecting our sensitive material better, or start hacking Chinese military computers. We cannot afford to loose our technological lead.



posted on Nov, 5 2005 @ 06:08 PM
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this is so shocking.........china is nothing but a theif.....i feel that a major confrontation is looming on this issue....the issue of free trade....and the issue of Tiwan.


these 4 individuals should be hanged or sentenced to death. and the companies they worked for shut down!!



posted on Nov, 5 2005 @ 06:43 PM
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these 4 individuals should be hanged or sentenced to death. and the companies they worked for shut down!!


I couldn't agree with you more, especially on the latter statement. I think companies who do business with the government, and our military in particular, need to be responsible for the actions of their employees. If they are dealing in classified information then they need to keep a tight leash on their workers.

I don't think they should be shut down, but I think they should be excluded from future government contracts, sanctioned, etc. If we make it clear that we will not tolerate spies or any leak of military information coming from the private sector, and make it clear that these companies will suffer financially as a result, then I think we'll see a major improvement. These companies only see things in terms of green. If there's a chance that they'll lose contracts and lose money as a result of their employees passing on classified info then they'll start running a tighter ship as they should have been in the first place.



posted on Nov, 5 2005 @ 10:21 PM
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These companies only see things in terms of green. If there's a chance that they'll lose contracts and lose money as a result of their employees passing on classified info then they'll start running a tighter ship as they should have been in the first place.



You have voted Rasputin13 for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.


I completely agree, gone are the days where National pride meant something, these days people need a slap in the face to be reminded of who they serve, and of what's at stake.



posted on Nov, 5 2005 @ 11:17 PM
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I don't think they should be shut down, but I think they should be excluded from future government contracts, sanctioned, etc.

The problem is, many of these companies are fronts for espionage, and if you don't shut them down they will just get new players.

The major advantage of these subs was that you never knew where they were; they could be parked right off your coast. Now that advantage is apparently gone.

Many miltary codes, including the football (I think) are changed on a daily basis. So what dj proposed may be viable.

The other possibility (fingers crossed here) is that we have anticipated such a compromise, and already have methods in place to use.

Then we could keep up the facade that we are in deep doo-doo for the Chinese' sake. Make them think they have us by the short ones. All the while, they are working with obsolete technology.


Oh yeah, and a quick trial and execution for those 4. That would be a nice little message to send to the Chinese, and a good deterrent.

[edit on 5-11-2005 by jsobecky]

[edit on 5-11-2005 by jsobecky]



posted on Nov, 6 2005 @ 12:05 AM
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I firmly believe that people who commit treason should have to face the death penalty,especially in this case where the effect could result in the lives of countless US military and civilian personnel in the future.



posted on Nov, 6 2005 @ 12:36 AM
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I agree bmdefiant and I think they should be public executions to remind proestive traitors what happens



posted on Nov, 6 2005 @ 12:46 AM
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And undoubtably you have your CIA over here trying to gain our secrets. We only do unto others what others do unto us.

As for execution *shrug* 1.2 billion more possible candidates to go. I'm sure that if they get a good enough lawyer they can get off, its easy to do nowadays in the US supposedly, if Mickle jackson can get off so can they.



posted on Nov, 6 2005 @ 02:13 AM
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Originally posted by The Middle Kingdom
And undoubtably you have your CIA over here trying to gain our secrets. We only do unto others what others do unto us.


I agree. Watch them all wine as if they don't do any spying themselves! I would put next months pay packet that the US is spying on the UK and vice versa. Everyones at it and it is the 2nd oldest Profession in the world!

Just think, these 4 peeps have been at it for 15 years! How many other cells are there?

What else do the Chinese know....Ooooh....I bet you Yanks are more paranoid than ever now!
"Yeee-haw! Time to nuke them thar Chinks!"

Only joking guys




As for execution *shrug* 1.2 billion more possible candidates to go. I'm sure that if they get a good enough lawyer they can get off, its easy to do nowadays in the US supposedly, if Mickle jackson can get off so can they.


Don't forget OJ!



posted on Nov, 6 2005 @ 02:50 AM
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Originally posted by Rasputin13
This is really scary...
...this information could be the difference between victory and the United States falling under the control of Communist China.


I am a Chinese and I haven't laughed so hard in quite some times, thank you...


talking about paranoia, if China goes to war with Taiwan tomorrow with no 3rd parties interference and no nuke, China will only win after exhausted the Taiwanese resources...

Conqouring US mainland and imposes Communism?



posted on Nov, 6 2005 @ 03:38 AM
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Originally posted by bmdefiant
I firmly believe that people who commit treason should have to face the death penalty,especially in this case where the effect could result in the lives of countless US military and civilian personnel in the future.

The Bush administration too?



Originally posted by warpboost
I agree bmdefiant and I think they should be public executions to remind proestive traitors what happens

They'll just redefine the term traitor, so that dissident and criminal = traitor, and then it would be just like in Nazi Germany! [sarcasm]How cool is that?[/sarcasm]


(sorry for the one-liners)

[edit on 6/11/2005 by SwearBear]



posted on Nov, 6 2005 @ 08:25 AM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23
...or start hacking Chinese military computers. We cannot afford to loose our technological lead.


You make it sound like counterespionage would be a newly tabled item for the NSA/CIA. Your naivete is astounding. What comes around goes around in spy circles I'm sure it can't be that big of a surprise or mystery.

brill



posted on Nov, 6 2005 @ 09:54 AM
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These spies shouldn't be let off easily. If China have any of your spies caught they would already have bullets in their heads. Juz look at wat happened to Singapore's straits time reporter who was accused by CCP for spying. Is there even a trial? Half a year has gone and still no news of him.

Anyway you guys shld find out why they are only exposed after 15 years, and quickly seek out the rest of them(i cannot think of the number of chinese spies).





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