NEWS: Notice - Human To Human Bird Flu Case In Indonesia

yeah but catching and killing allthe wild birds would do what to the eco balance?

Thats my problem I don't think the answer is to try and kill off every bird in existence.

Funnily enough people in these areas are allowed guns and allowed to shoot any injured or sick bird. In that way I feel for Australian who are not allowed access to guns and at the moment are facing the arrival of all these migratroy birds from south east Asia.

Can somebody explain the time line between getting the virus and the first symptoms?

It seems that the people that die is because they may wait to long to seek medical help. I am right?

I mean, if you are working with poultry and you don't feel good, are you going to wait until you are to sick to do anything before seeking help?

The people are inform about the flu right? they know they are high risk, right?

Originally posted by Mayet
Ok well maybe I am so used to you jumping on me everytime I post something like this. Sorry

and it is likely to be H5N1 because H5N1 has been reported in poultry in the area. The WHO says solati died of Bird Flu which I presume they mean H5N1 and as Shots said she got it from her poultry by looks like. But her nurse and her daughter and her two nephews all hospitalized from it are not so sure.

It is not the first time a nurse in Vietnam has contracted H5N1 from a patient they are treating. Two nurses I know of caught the disease from their patient around six months ago

But heres where I worry, if Vietnam knew of nurses contracting the disease before (six months ago), they should have made sure that isolation facilities for patients with the disease were of the strictest standard. I can't understand why it was allowed to happen again.

If you had or have ever been to the country you would see where I am coming from here. Most if not all people have their own poultry at home there in lies the problem.

Unfortunately they are not taking the precautions necessary to stop the spreading of H5N1 from spreading as do commercial operations. They do not keep the poultry isolated that is a big no no and they do not put on protective gear like plastic booties that are dipped in some disinfectant.

The list goes on and on, but those are facts that your sources normally leave out and that tends to mislead people.

The fact is that many many people come in contact with poultry since that is just their way of life everyone comes in contact simply because of their life style, it is after all a 3rd world country. They have to bathrooms, and use rivers to wash and bathe all that lead to problems like the problems in India with their water. They do not use soap to Make Coke or Pepsi yet the sources you normally use always imply they do. The phosphates get into the water via using the rivers for washing for laundry soap not via MFG's of Soda/Pop.

It is not your fault, I understand that and your apology is accepted.

Originally posted by marg6043
Can somebody explain the time line between getting the virus and the first symptoms?

It seems that the people that die is because they may wait to long to seek medical help. I am right?

I mean, if you are working with poultry and you don't feel good, are you going to wait until you are to sick to do anything before seeking help?

The people are inform about the flu right? they know they are high risk, right?

This particular strain , while I'm not sure how long it takes from time of exposure to the onset of symptoms, becomes life threatening within hours of the first symptoms. They say it starts out like a regular flu, with coughing and fever, but within a couple hours it feels like your chest is on fire and things go downhill very quickly from there.

Originally posted by 27jd
They say it starts out like a regular flu, with coughing and fever, but within a couple hours it feels like your chest is on fire and things go downhill very quickly from there.

Thanks for the time in explaining, perhaps it would be nice to start a thread on time line of infection and symptoms and them the life expectancy.

Hmmm. There are references showing that sometimes H5N1 flu presents only with gastro symptoms (stomache). I'm pretty sure I've posted the links here before. Will try to find them.

Originally posted by soficrow
Hmmm. There are references showing that sometimes H5N1 flu presents only with gastro symptoms (stomache). I'm pretty sure I've posted the links here before. Will try to find them.

It can present with gastro symptoms as well, here is a link with symptoms info...

The clinical signs and symptoms of avian influenza H5N1 may be more protean than originally described. During the 1997 epidemic in Hong Kong, patients exhibited fever, headache, malaise, myalgia, sore throat, cough, and rhinitis (5,8). Although uncommon, conjunctivitis and gastrointestinal symptoms were also reported (5,8). In the 2004 epidemic in Vietnam, prominent clinical signs and symptoms of avian influenza H5N1 were those of a severe influenza syndrome with fever, cough, diarrhea, and shortness of breath. Of note, diarrhea was present in 7 (70%) of 10 patients along with lower respiratory symptoms (9). The preliminary clinical features of avian influenza H5N1 in the 2004 epidemic in Thailand included fever, cough, sore throat, rhinorrhea, myalgia, and shortness of breath (10). Laboratory findings of patients with severe avian influenza H5N1 are undistinguishable from those of patients with prevailing human influenza; findings include leukopenia, lymphopenia, impaired liver function, prolonged clotting times, and renal impairment (5,8–10). To our knowledge, this patient has the first reported case of H5N1 with fever and gastrointestinal symptoms but no respiratory symptoms.

www.cdc.gov...



[edit on 7-11-2005 by 27jd]

It seems to me that the virus is just like enhancing underlying existing health problems that the infected people already have.

This is why the death rate is so high, how about healthy people that are infected any case of that?

Perhaps that is the reason that the virus is targeting third world countries not only they are more close to handling poultry but they may also have other health problems in relation to their standards of living.

Just a guess.

The story says Indonesia and not Vietnam. My understanding is that the strain found in northern Vietnam was less lethal, but more easily contracted by humans. Indonesia is the country that most concerns me at the moment.

Hey 27jd - Thanks for finding that link.

I'm thinking the symptoms reflect point of entry. So if the transmission vector was infected meat, then symptoms are primarily or initially gastro; if transmission is from airborne virus, then the first symptoms are respiratory. Makes sense to me but do you have any documentation on this?

This is terrible, I keep getting the feeling that this is going to take a lot of developed nations terribly offguard. It's also an opportunity for terrorists, if they were to "assist" its spreading.

Originally posted by soficrow
Hey 27jd - Thanks for finding that link.

I'm thinking the symptoms reflect point of entry. So if the transmission vector was infected meat, then symptoms are primarily or initially gastro; if transmission is from airborne virus, then the first symptoms are respiratory. Makes sense to me but do you have any documentation on this?

That could very well be the case, I can't find any documentation on it though. And as for marg's earlier question, it takes about three days from exposure to symptom development.

Originally posted by Benton
This is terrible, I keep getting the feeling that this is going to take a lot of developed nations terribly offguard. It's also an opportunity for terrorists, if they were to "assist" its spreading.

It shouldn't really be a worry yet. This isn't anything new, this form of avian flu has been around a while, and terrorists would have no way to assist it's spread, because at this point it doesn't spread efficiently among humans. This is completely in mother nature's hands whether it mutates or not, and many think if it were to mutate, it would lose much of it's punch. The media has just blown this way out of proportion, like they do everything else, remember SARS? The human flu kills a ton more people every year than the avian flu or SARS could ever dream of at this point. I think it is very unlikely much will come of this, just cook your bird meat properly, and don't swap spit with any birds and we should all be fine.

Three days is not much time to find out if what we have may be the Bird flu at all.

I guess if somebody in the US become sick from it, is going to be hundreds of people flocking to hospitals at the first sign of not feeling good.