China plans manned moon landing around 2017: Looking for Helium-3

According to a paper China plans to be on the moon by 2017. Goals include a moon based telescope as well as looking for Helium-3. Helium-3 according to some researchers is a perfect non-poluting energy source.

This of course begs the question. Did the Apollo missions discover Helium-3 and was the discovery of this kept quiet at the behest of the world wide oil cabal?

BEIJING (Reuters) - China, which launched its first manned space mission just two years ago, plans to put a man on the moon around 2017 and investigate what may be the perfect source of fuel, a newspaper reported on Friday.

Two Chinese astronauts orbited Earth for five days last month in the Shenzhou VI and China was now developing new craft up to the Shenzhou X, eyeing a permanent space station and an eventual moon mission, state media said this week.

"China will make a manned moon landing at a proper time, around 2017," leading scientist Ouyang Ziyuan was quoted by the Southern Metropolis News as saying.

The project also includes setting up a moon-based astronomical telescope, measuring the thickness of the moon's soil and the amount of helium-3 on the moon -- an element some researchers say is a perfect, non-polluting fuel source.
news.yahoo.com...

Wow i suspect they purposely put their target in 2017, a year earlier than NASA's 2018.

"We will provide the MOST RELIABLE report on helium-3 to mankind," Ouyang said.

I wonder what does that means?

They have a detailed plan for their space missions in the near future but not much for how they are getting to the moon. I also wonder how much is their budget for setting their feet on the moon before US do.

[edit on 5-11-2005 by NotheRaGe]

China is a lot of things. On the moon in 12 years is not one of them, and most definitely NOT to get He3.

There are supposed vast reserves. Not that there needs to be. One payload should power the US for 5-10 years, iirc.

I'm curious as to what notherage is on. The desire for competition could definitely factor in, for both sides.

There are supposed vast reserves. Not that there needs to be. One payload should power the US for 5-10 years, iirc.

Unfortunately we still know of no way to use the stuff. I was talking to a Fusion guy the other day on Skype and he thinks we won't be testing the stuff for a long while (he said it may take more then a Century to perfect the technology of He3 Fusion due to the enormous start-up temperatures)

Originally posted by FredT
This of course begs the question. Did the Apollo missions discover Helium-3 and was the discovery of this kept quiet at the behest of the world wide oil cabal?

Helium-3 was known before the moon mission, but was discovered on the moon by Apollo...I've never heard of any attempt to keep its existance on the moon secret.

edit:

I think I read somewhere a while ago about 3He on the moon that there was some disconnect between the scientists who had discovered it on the moon (who thought it was just kind of a curiousity) and the physicists looking at it as a possible power source (but thinking it was extremely rare and would be impossible to get in quantity), so it took a long time after the initial discovery before lunar 3He was seriously discussed as a possible future power source.

[edit on 11/5/2005 by djohnsto77]

A century is definitely pushing it. At this rate, maybe, but assuming people actually thought things through we could do it pretty quickly, possibly by the time we get the stuff back, or not long after.

Originally posted by Amorymeltzer
A century is definitely pushing it. At this rate, maybe, but assuming people actually thought things through we could do it pretty quickly, possibly by the time we get the stuff back, or not long after.

He didn't say it would take us a Century to be able to figure out how to use it, he just thinks that it won't be perfected for a while. He speculated about the possibility of a test reactor within a couple of decades. Of course he was a Hydrogen guy so he might have been a bit biased allthough I have no idea as to why he would be. Could be just regular scientific caution on his part.

Any good moon orbiting satellite with the proper sensors can find the Helium-3. There is a lot of it on the surface. NASA has moon maps of where it is. Helium-3 is also found in Titanium deposits on the Moon. Some of those samples were returned to Earth on one of the Apollo Moon missions.

"The red indicates an abundance of helium-3 on the Moon's surface."


A reactor using Helium-3 might be developed, if we had any Helium-3 to try it. We don't have any here on Earth. It's all on the Moon. Having some might just speed the process up.

It has been estimated that helium 3 would have a cash value of $5.7 billion a ton in terms of its current energy equivalent to oil at

That is a long shot to say that China would be looking for helium3 on the moon to use in a reactor (which they hint at), considering how well funded their fusion research is.

Hell, the US and the rest of the world cannot make a single fusionreactor that is hooked on a power grid, and reports have come out saying that the first to be used for commercial use won't be around for another 11 years,at the least. And then it has yet to be seen after that if it is at all economical.

So what does this mean for helium3 reactors? There are none, not a single one, to my knowledge. And the helium3 reactors from what I have read will be extremely hard to fuse. It might be another 50 years until the first reactor for He3 is built, and like Sardion say another 50 to perfect and make commercial. So, in other words what this means for He3 reactors is that they are (something) out of luck, for the time being.

By that time (100 years) I would imagine that going to the moon or anywhere outside earth to mine materials will be nearly just as economical as it is today. In that time the capablity to make He3 in a laboratory could be present.

Originally posted by ZPE StarPilot
A reactor using Helium-3 might be developed, if we had any Helium-3 to try it. We don't have any here on Earth. It's all on the Moon. Having some might just speed the process up.

Wrongo. There is plenty of helium 3 on earth for research purposes. It can among others be produced by extracting it during natural gas production. Another important source is decay of tritium in US nuclear weapons, which produces 15 kg per year, more than enough for any research reactor. Further, there is no need at the time to "speed the process up" as there is not even a research reactor yet that can maintain the tens of millions of degrees for long enough to have a break even for the lowest temperature fusion reaction, which is deuterium-tritium. Further, you do not need to develop a commercial reactor using helium 3 with a research reactor using helium 3, p-6Li fusion that requires temperatures of the same magnitude could suffice to prove the concept. Further, some people present helium 3 as a non polluting fuel, this is not true. The neutronicity of the reaction is just around 20 times or so less. This means you'll still have radioactivity and reactor wall damage, but just a lot less. It is hence dubious whether the enormous costs of developing a fusion reactor using helium 3 that requires temperatures several times higher than for deuterium tritium fusion, plus the astronomical costs of mining helium 3 on the moon, would offset the rather marginal costs of the higher storage and disposal of nuclear waste when using the a lot easier to achieve deuterium-tritium fusion.

So in short:
1. There are significant amounts of He3 on earth, just not enough to power several commercial reactors using it IF those were to exist.
2. There is even no immediate need for He3 to develop a nuclear reactor using it.
3. D-He3 fusion requires higher temperatures, which is even more difficult in times of cost to develop.
4. He3 still produces neutrons, just less.

Hence, is the cost of developing D-He3 fusion and mining He3 less than the higher storage of nuclear waste for D-T fusion? I don't think so.

Duplicate thread Fred!


Was covered here earlier the same day:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by NotheRaGe


United States by year 2018 will have no money to put people on the moon. Interest payment on national debt will eat out all the budget. United States is an early stage of Titanic right after hitting an iceberg. Prepare to jump ship.

Don't count China out, guys. They have lots of money, and are using American ingenuity. As a matter of fact, the US is deeply in bed with them whether we admit it or not. Check out what James Baker is doing, from a post of mine in another thread:

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
I have an update from China. Strangest thing. This poster at a locally run forum (the region is less than 200k people) has really provided me a lot of spectacularly good links. Two of them deal with the China connection.

I am willing to bet that the Chinese government is willing to provide a substantial amount of autonomy (at least initially) to a scientist like Dr. Li, who can provide technology that gives a competitve edge. They are moving full speed ahead with stem cell research and could end up being a sponsor of human cloning.

Below is a joint Chinese/US effort:

High Frequency Gravity Waves

It is Chinese with English translations. Could one of our mathematicians have a perusal at the math and theory and provide some feedback?

I have a patent related to this, as well...but haven't finished with it yet. I will post it tomorrow (when i can use my desktop system and get into my full suite of applications).

...snip....

Shortly after this i emailed Dr. Baker, and here is his reply:

Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 22:46:48 -0800
Dear Mike: I really appreciate your interest in High-Frequency Gravitational waves. I have not heard from Dr. Ning Li for several years. In Huntsville several years back her husband prepared what my wife and I consider the best Chinese meal we have ever had. At the time I was evaluating her work on HFGWs/superconductors for the US Army. According to them she never presented them with a final report on the $500,000 contract that they paid her. I have no idea where she is or what she is doing. I am working with a Professor Fangyu Li from Chongqing University . You can find information on our activity at www.GravWave.com. Regards, Robert Baker

I recommend you go to the Gravwave.com website. As well, peruse the thread i have linked to, as there are powerpoint presentations and stuff for the Chinese officials.

Why do i bring this up? Two reasons:

1. Dr. Baker is one of the foremost gravitational researchers in the world. As well, he runs the UCal Berkeley department on such research, and acts in the capacity of "Talent Agent" for the US Military. He is a "headhunter" and funnels deserving scientists (and their research) into DARPA for further development.

2. If you visit the Gravwave.com webpage you can locate the following page:

www.gravwave.com...

scroll down, you will see Buzz Aldrin listed as a "senior scientific advisor".

Invest Now Or Lose Space Race To China/Russia

Buzz is VERY convinced that China will be going to the moon, and before the US returns. He has stated that the next men on the moon will speak Chinese.