Anti-Iran propaganda indicates war is imminent

If we know now that we invaded Iraq on a threat which was blown out of proportion and in part even completely fabricated, how can we be so naive to do the same about Iran?

When the press release a story, should we just accept it?
Should we read it and add that to the collective of why Iran is evil?
Is this really what we learnt from the Iraq war, that the media can dictate who we fear and who we trust when we know they did the exact same thing in promoting the war for Iraq as valid because THEY were told what to write?


1. Iranian cartoon promotes suicide terrorism…
2. Iran gives $1 million to Palestinian terror - Distribution ceremony sponsored by PA President Abbas
3. The Iran-al Qaeda Axis
4. Hamas' West Bank battle plan exposed
5. Iran Split over Presidents remarks
6. Iran's new president: “…Islam will conquer the world…”
7. Iran and Syria backed Israeli bombings - Al Aqsa leader admits terror orders given from Damascus
8. Iran Leader Calls for Israel's Destruction - "wiped off the map" was the actual phrase…
9. Thousands of Iranians march demanding Israel destruction in support of their president.

This is just sad sad sad. Really it is. This type of laser like focus of pointing out the evil of another entire nation as if they all think with the one emotion, is directly what leads us to war. Like an addiction, it's dangerous.

To me, it looks like again, the propaganda is convincing people a war is needed and is forfilling a self-serving prophecy that a war with Iran will be on. I say 'prophecy' because anti-war and independent press have been saying there will be a war with Iran by around the end of 2005 for the last couple years now due purely to pre-planned policy - not a threat.

What we're seeing now is the same path being forged as the lead up to Iraq. One that like smoke, slowly fills the room until we're all blind. Right now we're in that room and the smoke is anti-Iran propaganda slowly filling our space until before we know it, as a collective and like Iraq, we'll know Iran is evil but we won't know why other than some headlines we remember reading in the paper. We'll collectively decide the fate of thousands of lives because we either believed propaganda or else we didn't look past the headlines and key words.

If we don't fall for this, they know the power a bombing has in swaying public opinion and they've had plenty of practise in formulating a templated response in the media to a 'terrorist attack. We will be at war with Iran, it's inevitable but again it won't be for the reasons sold to the public.

Isreal need Irans ability to pose a threat voided so they can stay uncontested.
Isreal have said they'll bomb Iran before Russia can fuel ther facilities if no one else will.
PNAC'ers need yet another 'Pearl Harbor' to warrent another war if propaganda alone isn't going to cut it.
US oil companies need Iranian Oil flow controlled in their favor.

All these things are why there will be a war on Iran - not because of some flashy headline and some ridiculous story which paints them all as an evil hive-like mind but because as doctrine which was written for this administration states - war is how America will cover ground in order to dominate as we move into the energy crisis with the peak of oil supply.

This oil war has nothing to do with making oil cheaper for us, it's about controlling distribution when oil has peaked and demand out weighs supply and developing nations like India and China demand more oil than the US currently uses.

America and Isreal are working together because:
a) America uses more oil than any other country and will suffer the most if they aren't in control of supply in a peak oil world.
b) Isreal would be wiped off the map if it wasn't supplied by America technology, money and arms - yet they have better Middle Eastern intelligence than the US could ever dream to know and are important to Americas ability to survive the energy crisis.

Both countries need each other, both countries need Iran removed from their path. Neither country will tell it's people it's true motives.

The Iranian propaganda is getting very old and it's embarrising to read EVERYDAY. We went through all of this with Iraq and Saddam - why set yourself up again in supporting the deaths of thousands just because you've been told the other side is evil and a threat to you?

In other words, when will we ever learn from history?


[edit on 4-11-2005 by Thomas Crowne]

Except that all of the things he posted were true Memphis.

Perhaps you should ask why Iran is doing all of these things, eh?

One or two, hey, no biggy, but ALL of them?

Why is it the ones upset over their actions are attacked, and not them?

If they weren't doing all of these things, I wouldn't have a problem with Iran.

As it is, they ARE doing all of these things, and these things ARE a cause for alarm.

Or do you think that paying terrorists families for killing other people is a good thing?


[edit on 4-11-2005 by American Mad Man]

Originally posted by TheShroudOfMemphis

This is just sad sad sad. Really it is. This type of laser like focus of pointing out the evil of another entire nation as if they all think with the one emotion, is directly what leads us to war. Like an addiction, it's dangerous.

seems to me that there are alot of anti-american threads here that do exactly that....but youre not complaining about them, are you? wonder why?

No please, turn this into an "anti-America" thread because that's what you do, that helps the progress for war, it's as good as killing someone.

Single out voices which dont' toe the line and demonise them too. Christians who deminse gay people do this because it re-enforces a belief they can't prove either. It's a way of allowing yourself to believe your right by convincing yourself they have to be wrong. This mentality makes it all but impossible to see both sides of an arguement and understand the many paths it can take.

Demonising is the way to justify your own short comings. To understand your true emotions via opposing emotions. The human brain has a hard time evaluating itself and often opts for the easiest emotions, anger, rage etc rather than a real deep look into it's core.

Yes, there are plenty of posts about America and the bad things they do but when someone posts about Abu Gharib or Gauntanamo for example, they are posting in the past tense - they aren't making assumptions that are going to lead to years of turmoil and decades of conflict because it suits a few corporate monsters who live in a world that you and I will never know.

If Iran does something bad, then post it, that's great.
But when you make a post that suggests Iran and it's actions are bad or evil, ask yourself who for? Ask yourself are those actions evil in the spirit of humanity or are those actions evil because they are road blocks to your countries business elite?

When you can't accept America doing wrong, why would the rest of the world believe what you say is right?

I know the answers i'll get from the war supporters and the ones who alway defend America, they are expected but frankly they are meaningless until those people can also say the same AGAINST their country when it crosses the line which seperates them from the ideals they have about their concieved enemy.

No one is born with hatred. You learn to hate.
No one is born with enemies. You create enemies.
There's no need for either when you understand there are no borders or countries, it's all the same planet and we're all the same species.

I know it sounds stupid but an Alien invasion would be the best thing that could happen to humanity right now and i'm crossing my fingers that is what the Mayans said will be the new phase of humanity in 2012!
I'll be so dissapointed at this species if it's a nuclear war.

Originally posted by TheShroudOfMemphis
If Iran does something bad, then post it, that's great.
But when you make a post that suggests Iran and it's actions are bad or evil, ask yourself who for? Ask yourself are those actions evil in the spirit of humanity or are those actions evil because they are road blocks to your countries business elite?

OK, Iran giving money to terrorists who strap bombs to their chests, and go kill innocent Isrealis...

Definatly bad for humanity.

Iran harboring OBL/AQ - bad for humanity

President of Iran preaching the destruction of another nation - bad yet again.

No one is forcing them to do this. No one is intruding on their land causing him to say this. Iran is doing this.

No one is born with hatred. You learn to hate.
No one is born with enemies. You create enemies.
There's no need for either when you understand there are no borders or countries, it's all the same planet and we're all the same species.

Funny, because it is the ME that seems born with hate. Hatred of the US, hatred of Isreal, hatred of Christians, hatred of Jews...basically all they know is hate for anyone who isn't just like them.

Hell, take a look at western Europe... Rioting over their kids getting in trouble, fleeing from cops, and getting themselves killed by hiding in an electric conducter. And ten these people burn down buildings and riot in the street as if France has wronged them?

I am sick of it honestly... You want to talk about hate, talk to THEM, because there is very little hate in West, and an abundence of it in the ME. But I guess theirs is all justified, right?

The Middle East wasn't born with a hatred of the Jews. Jewish people were welcomed by Arabs when fleeing persecution in Europe.

It's only since the rise of the Zionist movement that Arab hostility towards Jews has arisen.

Originally posted by American Mad Man
OK, Iran giving money to terrorists who strap bombs to their chests, and go kill innocent Isrealis...

How's that any different to the US selling arms to Israel to kill innocent Palestinians?

Originally posted by American Mad Man
OK, Iran giving money to terrorists who strap bombs to their chests, and go kill innocent Isrealis... Definatly bad for humanity.

The conflict in the Middle East between the Israelis and the Palestinians is a regrettable war. It has two sides none of which is completely innocent. Death of civilians occurs on both sides. Every country is backing one side, American and Iran being on opposing sides. This is troubling for entire humanity. Hopefully both Iran and others supporting one side and gaining from this war will reform their attitudes.

Originally posted by American Mad ManIran harboring OBL/AQ - bad for humanity

Forgive me if I am wrong, but Iran was on the verge of launching a war against Tabliban and al-Qaede in the late 90s and it was only after the current US backed Pakistan threatened Iran the Iran had to back off. However if there is any evidence that Iran is supporting its sworn enemy, the one that has killed thousands of its co-religionists and supporters in the neighbouring country, then it would be nice to see it.

Originally posted by American Mad ManPresident of Iran preaching the destruction of another nation - bad yet again.

True. Calling for another nations destruction is indeed despicable and appalling.

Originally posted by American Mad ManNo one is forcing them to do this. No one is intruding on their land causing him to say this. Iran is doing this.

Obviously foreign pressure affects the foreign policy of all nations. For example when Israel threatens to bomb Iran's billion dollar assets it may have an effect on the foreign policy and the statements of a nation. However it is true that no one is intruding in our land.

Funny, because it is the ME that seems born with hate. Hatred of the US, hatred of Isreal, hatred of Christians, hatred of Jews...basically all they know is hate for anyone who isn't just like them.

Do you study history by any chance? I am not going to speak for the entire Middle Eastern side of the world, since it is very difficult to generalise the attitude of hundreds of millions of people, however from what I have read about the country I was born and raised in, the Iranian nation was as a whole a very pro-American nation before 1953. In World War 2 the US occupiers were treated with respect. However after 1953 the attitudes in Iran changed. I am sure you know all about Operation Ajax, and the consequences it brought on the Iranian nation and people as a whole, since you seem to have no problem generalising the attitudes and ethics of Middle Easterners.

thank you sep for your level-headed reply. im glad to see that not all iranians are america-hating radicals, just as not all americans are muslim hating radicals.

yes, the US is not innocent in its policies of the past, and this has alot to do with the resentment felt toward us in the ME. however, the anti-american rhetoric coming from the mullahs in your country does not help matters, either. if we are going to prevent war, cooler heads have got to prevail on both sides of the issue.

and Shroud, sometimes the only difference between your posts and skippy's are the name of the country being bashed. neither of you seems to be able to see past the hatred.

Originally posted by uknumpty
The Middle East wasn't born with a hatred of the Jews. Jewish people were welcomed by Arabs when fleeing persecution in Europe.

It's only since the rise of the Zionist movement that Arab hostility towards Jews has arisen.

Ah thank you! You said it perfectly.

Originally posted by uknumpty

Originally posted by American Mad Man
OK, Iran giving money to terrorists who strap bombs to their chests, and go kill innocent Isrealis...

How's that any different to the US selling arms to Israel to kill innocent Palestinians?

Easy. The US is not giving them arms in return for killing people, as Iran is giving money in return for suicide attacks.

Originally posted by rotgeist

Originally posted by uknumpty
The Middle East wasn't born with a hatred of the Jews. Jewish people were welcomed by Arabs when fleeing persecution in Europe.

It's only since the rise of the Zionist movement that Arab hostility towards Jews has arisen.

Ah thank you! You said it perfectly.

most certainly did

now I can understand why this concept can be hard for some people to accept and it does seem to be a pattern now but this is an excellent thread Shroud more people need to take heed.
I guess the general public are just "accepting" of this propoganda, I mean c'mon it's not hard at all is it ?
What I wanna know is, where was all this "terrorism" and gung-ho "death-to-U-because-U-are-this-particular-race/religion" 10 years ago ? 20 years ago ? even 5 years ago ? and I mean of THIS magntude, this is utterly ridiculous. GROWN MEN, acting more childish than actual children! it's almost laughable, yet disappointing more so.
I don't preach this at all, but i'm sorry, if U don't see the reason for all this nonsense being the USA's current administration I am at a loss for words


It makes me sick to my stomach to see how some people look at "obvious" Muslims (women wearing hijab, hey how are they to know which men are ? they don't all look like Osama or Saddam U know ? smmfh) and it is usually the women who are as anti-war as the next "American" so it is so disappointing to see them be subjected to this type of treatment, it's like they are being alienated from what I have seen in my society anyway. Which is sad because I used to be so proud of Melbourne (Australia)'s open and inviting culture ... I'm not so fond of it anymore sadly.

And that my friends, according to me, is all Mr President of the USA's fault and nobody else's ... and no U can't sway me so please don't try. He and his twisted agenda are ruining our world, not just his country, all our countries and it is just appalling.
And before U try argue or call me anti-American, I visit there frequently, I LOVE vacationing there, the people I have encountered are lovely, hell I want to live there .... I just don't love your government

He needs the oil his country so readily uses up yet has no part in producing.

So will this gal be shocked when Iran (not to mention Syria) are splattered all over the headlines ? no, nor shall I when other Middle Eastern countries are.

we all know what lies ahead *sigh*






[edit on 7-11-2005 by ImJaded]

Originally posted by Sep
The conflict in the Middle East between the Israelis and the Palestinians is a regrettable war. It has two sides none of which is completely innocent. Death of civilians occurs on both sides. Every country is backing one side, American and Iran being on opposing sides. This is troubling for entire humanity. Hopefully both Iran and others supporting one side and gaining from this war will reform their attitudes.

Yes, I must agree. Niether side is without fault. However, the direct support of terrorism by Iran is completely unnacceptable.

Originally posted by Sep
Forgive me if I am wrong, but Iran was on the verge of launching a war against Tabliban and al-Qaede in the late 90s and it was only after the current US backed Pakistan threatened Iran the Iran had to back off. However if there is any evidence that Iran is supporting its sworn enemy, the one that has killed thousands of its co-religionists and supporters in the neighbouring country, then it would be nice to see it.

I would like to point you to something you said:

Originally posted by Sep
Obviously foreign pressure affects the foreign policy of all nations..

Is the enemy of your enemy your friend, or your enemy? Frankly, in this case, Iran stands to benefit more from covertly backing OBL - and thus allowing him to put pressure on the west - then it does from taking him down. Now, of course there is no conclusive proof that they have done this, but there is a lot of evidence.

True. Calling for another nations destruction is indeed despicable and appalling.

From you saying "our land" when refering to Iran, I take it you are Iranian?

If so, then you are one of the (I presume and hope) millions of reasons why I think Iran has hope of 'coming around' peacefully. As I understand it, the majority of the youth of your country seems to take your very admirable stance of tolerence and progression.

Obviously foreign pressure affects the foreign policy of all nations. For example when Israel threatens to bomb Iran's billion dollar assets it may have an effect on the foreign policy and the statements of a nation. However it is true that no one is intruding in our land.

Yes, but ask your self why exactly is Isreal threatening to destroy such a reactor?

It isn't 'just because', the reason is Iran is - and has been for a long time - litterally paying people to kill Isrealis. Not only that, but it is a pretty well accepted fact that Iran has a covert nuclear weapons program.

On top of that, it isn't just Isreal who fears an Iranian nuclear reactor - all of Europe and the US does too. Frankly, Iran isn't a nation like Switzerland that simply stays out of everyones way. Iran simply isn't trust worthy.

Do you study history by any chance? I am not going to speak for the entire Middle Eastern side of the world, since it is very difficult to generalise the attitude of hundreds of millions of people, however from what I have read about the country I was born and raised in, the Iranian nation was as a whole a very pro-American nation before 1953. In World War 2 the US occupiers were treated with respect. However after 1953 the attitudes in Iran changed. I am sure you know all about Operation Ajax, and the consequences it brought on the Iranian nation and people as a whole, since you seem to have no problem generalising the attitudes and ethics of Middle Easterners.

Sure, I know all about it. Frankly, it wasn't right - and you will not often hear me say that about the US.

I will say, the communist tendencies of Mossadegh, coupled with Irans attempt to simply seize the AOIC presented us (US, UK) with few options, in what was the most dire of times.

This is not to take away from the fact that we did unjustly install a dictator in your nation, but a little prospective is needed.

[edit on 7-11-2005 by American Mad Man]

[edit on 7-11-2005 by American Mad Man]

The middle east, what a crack up they are.

Fight over a thousand year story that isn't even true.

I think we should "wipe Rome off the face of the map." That Zues guy offends me

Originally posted by crisko
The middle east, what a crack up they are.

Fight over a thousand year story that isn't even true.

I think we should "wipe Rome off the face of the map." That Zues guy offends me

Just one question if U will ... when U refer to the Middle East as a "crack up" do U mean arabs, muslims, both, neither or just any of them in general fighting over a fake thousand year old story ? (which is what exactly?)

care to elaborate for me if U will, easy to confuse them huh ?

I mean neither. I am refering to the politcs based on defunct prophicies. I subscribe to no religion, I see people as people.

Mankind is misguided, and I for one cannot wait untill someone hits the reset button and all civilization as we know it collapses so that I can live life as intended by "God" if there is one.

I would much rather prefer to work my crops during the day, make love to my beautiful wife, smoke the ganga and stare at the stars, uninhibited by city lights. I don't think the master plan involves me slaving away for someone else's gain. I don't subscribe to that either. I want my actions to benefit my life, not someone elses.

Religion as I see it was a form of controlling the masses, herding the sheep so to speak. Christianity, Islam and all that other Jazz wasn't born with man. Man created them to explain the unexplainable (at the time), evil men exploited it to control other men.

What these people (Religious officials in the ME [all religions, Israel does a good job at fueling the fire]) argue over is petty and worthless, they are the harbingers of the new darkage. We are just now crawling out of the mud, and these people have made it clear that they want to destroy that, or each other at the very least.

Since I can't have my Eden, I'd prefer to see them banished (Again, in regards to those who profit from the suffering of others, no reference to any religion or race) from existance rather than live my life by their rules.

The world isnt as advanced as you would like to think. We still have African pirates (but I dont think they keep parrots as pets) and very few countries benefit from the proliferation of technology.

Not sure if any of that made sense. Sorry.




[edit on 7-11-2005 by crisko]

Originally posted by American Mad Man
Except that all of the things he posted were true Memphis.

That's EXACTLY what I thought about Iraq... Didn't you? That all the things we were being told were true. That's why I supported it. That's the danger. And what about Iraq now? Do you see that the reasons we went in there weren't true?

Great post TheShroudOfMemphis. Fool me once... I don't understand how people can fall for the propaganda again. How does that work? How soon they forget? We were duped and it's happening all over again and people fall for it! How many times will we have to go to war, to sacrifice our soldiers, to kill tens of thousands of innocent women and children before everyone sees that it's a lie and says, "Enough"!

It's not 'Anti-American' to point out our country's faults. That's one of the first thing people say to derail any discussion about looking at this problem logically. Bring in the emotion of "American-Hating" to take the focus off the very real issue of starting unnecessary wars.

Originally posted by American Mad Man
Easy. The US is not giving them arms in return for killing people, as Iran is giving money in return for suicide attacks.

A means to an end. Israeli use of US supplied helicopter gunships and F16 fighter jets has helped kill many innocent Palestinians. Has the US (and UK) said "Hey Israel, no more military equipment from us, until you stop misusing it"?

If our governments were any different to that of Iran they would have.

[edit on 7-11-2005 by uknumpty]

I agree with you Benevolent Heretic. Why is it anti-american to criticize the policies of the government? The whole point of being an American citizen is to have benefit of a government "for the people, and by the people". Are the only true Americans the ones who follow our leaders blindly, and believe whatever crap they choose to dish out? This country was founded by those who question authority. Surely we will not be lead into another war on false pretenses because we didn't question the motives behind it.

Originally posted by CindyfromFlorida
Surely we will not be lead into another war on false pretenses because we didn't question the motives behind it.

Ahem, what flase pretenses are these ? I believe everything in the original post is true reported around the world

Seems many people here have no idea about the last 50 years of Iranian history, what is it with you people over there. Do you just read the headlines and a few concise paragraphs and think you know it all, LMAO. It seems that way.

Iran has been an active supporter of terrorism for 25 years, this isn't something new people Hell 5 years ago none of you would have known anything about Iran, too busy watching that pulp BS your TV companies put out.