DeusEx, even thou some of the issues have to do with religion, there are also many white youths in France who are also part of this. Perhaps poverty has something to do with it, but probably not. If you go throught the streets of Cuba, you will see poverty at it's worse, yet youths don't resort to rape, burning women, or any of the other violent acts that are happening in France. I know Cubans that go hungry for days, and are living in pretty bad conditions.

A friend of mine that came from Cuba would tell me that she would go without eating at times for almost a week. She was able to come to the US two years ago. The Cuban people do not resort to the violence seen in France and other parts of the world.

It is more than poverty that is causing these people to react this way.

Poverty is not an excuse for these violent acts. In fact i believe people are doing more wrong and allowing these acts to continue because they want to be PC.

[edit on 3-11-2005 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddib
It is more than poverty that is causing these people to react this way.

[edit on 3-11-2005 by Muaddib]

You're right, it's a combination of Poverty and Oppression. Paris has the highest number of Police per capita in the entire world. Think on that for a bit.

Originally posted by sardion2000

You're right, it's a combination of Poverty and Oppression. Paris has the highest number of Police per capita in the entire world. Think on that for a bit.

Oppression? I thought France was a great place to live? The Cuban people, and other people around the world are also oppressed. Yet, these things don't happen all over the world. It does happen in certain places only. Cuban people are so oppressed that they know they can't revolt.

The problem as I see it is that societies are trying to be PC, to the point that people are given excuses for committing these acts, and since the criminals think now that it is all the fault of society, they have a green light in their eyes to keep raping, killing etc, etc.



[edit on 3-11-2005 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by DeusEx

As for your rape issue, it's the different manifestation of a social issue. ...The comparison isn't exact. But at least try to follow me on this one. I remember, from this DVD called 'The Real Toronto', there's the kids saying something along the lines of 'The only way out of Scarborough is to be a baller. A baller or a rapper. If you aren't, you gotta deal.'

Now, these immigrants don't have any way out, and scarborough is probably the worst part of Toronto. But that same perception just makes criminal behavior -like dealing drugs or rape- seem more acceptable. And that, like the perception of racism and the reality of intense poverty, is the root cause of these riots, not religion.

DE

Great response DeusEx. Thanks.

Seems pretty obvious to me too. "Let them eat cake," just doesn't cut it. Didn't before either.

Originally posted by Muaddib

I guess you've never been to Paris. Police are everywhere to keep the locals in line so they don't disturb the tourists, they use fairly heavy handed tactics in their "hoods" when I was there a police brutality trial was on allthough I couldn't really understand it some people who actually spoke English to me told me this is a sistemic problem in the poorer Neighborhoods.

Being PC on the world stage has little to do with policy on the ground in the Mayoral offices and Police stations. Please learn some facts on the daily lives of those living in these slums, they are not limited to France and can be found in just about every city in the west. The police in these precincts and the attitudes of the upper classes can be quite Peniaphobic(fear of poverty) and Xenophobic.

If this has been going on for over a week, then it's time for them to re-examine their response.

It sounds like their response has been to use rubber bullets. That is reactive, as would adding tear gas to the mixture be.

In the US, one thing that would be happening would be for community or cultural leaders trying to have the crowd calm down. France must surely have some national heroes, soccer players or whatever, that can appeal for calm. Someone of the same ethnic backround; a muslim. Not Chirac. Start a dialogue, if possible.

Eight nights of riots. Obviously the rioters have nothing to fear, beause it seems they can riot at will.

Originally posted by jsobecky
Eight nights of riots. Obviously the rioters have nothing to fear, beause it seems they can riot at will.

It's not even a matter of 'nothing to fear', it's 'nothing to lose'.

DE

Originally posted by jsobecky
In the US, one thing that would be happening would be for community or cultural leaders trying to have the crowd calm down. France must surely have some national heroes, soccer players or whatever, that can appeal for calm. Someone of the same ethnic backround; a muslim. Not Chirac. Start a dialogue, if possible.

The BBC reported that some Muslim leaders tried to calm them down a few days ago, well as you can see it didn't work.

[edit on 3-11-2005 by sardion2000]

Originally posted by sardion2000
...........
Please learn some facts on the daily lives of those living in these slums, they are not limited to France and can be found in just about every city in the west. The police in these precincts and the attitudes of the upper classes can be quite Peniaphobic(fear of poverty) and Xenophobic.

Sardion, although you are in part right, i can tell you that there are poor people living in countries that don't resort to this sort of violence. People who are oppressed, they can't speak their minds and if they do they are in fear that maybe even one of their friends or even possibly a family member would rat them out to the communist system in Cuba.

It is a lot more than just poverty, oppresion and social problems that is creating all this violence. People have forgotten that each one of us has a responsibility for our own actions. It is the PC of thinking that "because of society i am this way and it's not my fault" that has set a new standard in the minds of many people.

Nowadays it seems noone is accountable for their actions, because people can claim that society at large, their parents or someone else made them that way. That is part of the problem of PC.

[edit on 3-11-2005 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by sardion2000

I guess you've never been to Paris.
...........

Well, people keep claiming that socialism is great, that it solves all the problems that Capitalism has, etc, etc....

I'm tired of hearing about Rioters.. blah.. I lived in downtown Cincinnati during the riots there.. There's a simple solution.. Dont use gas.. or high pressure water hoses.. Use deadly force.. Blood baths.. HA!.. Yeah ok.. Let me tell you, A rioter burns my car? They die. Why? They have no compassion, no thought, no care for what they are doing, they care for themselves and the rush they are getting!.. I wonder how fast a .45 calibre round would make them rush.. Or if they'd riot at the sight of a Comanche gunship, HIN-D gunship coming their way.. There is no justice, They're arrested, and prosecuted, to what? a fine? big deal.. Shoot them all, They wont be missed..

And I know I'm going to catch hell for saying all that.. but.. It's my opinion, my free speech and my keyboard.. so

The BBC has been reporting on it and we get BBC World News at 6pm

The BBC will as it seems give you more truth to the world news, were ours may disgaurd numarical facts such as one Program will say a riot in China killed 2000 people, were the other will say it killed 8000. Same in schools, they used to teach (at least were I am from) a light side of Columbus (for example), as a hero, now they express more truth.

so,
if it hasn't burnt itself out after 8 days...then this is kinda unique.

as more people join in the melee, it does not seem that the rioters are ratcheting up the destruction.
it appears all the disgrunted have only enough anger & hostility
to satisify their need to say that they've been part of the mayhem.,

but have not enough ambition or commitment to be really destructive to the point of an 'all or nothing' conclusion.
like lemmings, the reactionary multitude races around in rage and mindless
anarchy... egging on the dead-enders to commit atrocities or become just so much 'dead-meat'....they have given a spark & a meaning to their own lives, as they are both the actors & their own puppet masters, in their overrated-view of this growing riot as an unfolding historical exclaimation point.

both the authorities and the middle-of-the-road rebellious youths, want & desire to see blood & wanton destruction & something horrendeous to remember & be a part of.

imho

They are French remember.. they want to cause mayhem and anarchy, but not get their hands dirty....

Could this be karma on Chirac?
If you do not wish to join the fight, we will bring it to you.
Never mind the French did not address the 30 thousand elders who died form the heat a few summers back.
She is a harsh mistress. ms karma is.

Originally posted by siriuslyone
Could this be karma on Chirac?
If you do not wish to join the fight, we will bring it to you.
Never mind the French did not address the 30 thousand elders who died form the heat a few summers back.
She is a harsh mistress. ms karma is.

Sigh, OK.. once again from the top, folks: France has been fighting Islamic terror for decades, and has fought wars in foreign countries against Islamic insurgencies that make Iraq pale by comparision. They have more experience with fighting Islamic terror than the US and rest of the EU combined, and believe it or not, behind all the made-for-tv anti-France sentiment, the US actually works closely with France and takes French advice on the matter seriously.

When I was in Paris in the mid 90s they had Foreign Legionnaires on the streets and subways, in response to hightened fears regarding terror attacks from the GIA. I wonder if they'll bring them out to combat these riots? Those guys are hardcore.

-koji K.

[edit on 3-11-2005 by koji_K]

Originally posted by Ox
I'm tired of hearing about Rioters.. blah.. I lived in downtown Cincinnati during the riots there.. There's a simple solution.. Dont use gas.. or high pressure water hoses.. Use deadly force.. Blood baths.. HA!.. Yeah ok.. Let me tell you, A rioter burns my car? They die. Why? They have no compassion, no thought, no care for what they are doing, they care for themselves and the rush they are getting!.. I wonder how fast a .45 calibre round would make them rush.. Or if they'd riot at the sight of a Comanche gunship, HIN-D gunship coming their way.. There is no justice, They're arrested, and prosecuted, to what? a fine? big deal.. Shoot them all, They wont be missed..

And I know I'm going to catch hell for saying all that.. but.. It's my opinion, my free speech and my keyboard.. so

Gotta love those keyboard warriors.

If this wasn't the News Network, OOOOOHHHH.

Is this the extent of your contribution to this topic?

Ouch.. a personal attack..

And it could be my entire contribution, yes. Who's to say, if something comes up that I wish to comment on, I will, If not, then my comment stands. As I said.. It's my opinion, And that's all there is to it.. A keyboard warrior? I think not, But I do like your vast contribution to the topic and thread by trying to verbally (so to speak) bash me.. Good job.. Nice work.. I commend you..